Airports are becoming frightening.

[kaini]

well, i'm not planning on flying to the US that day, the same as the other 364.25ish days of 2010.

[J3FF3R00]

There was public debate over the repeal of prohibition too...which oddly enough was one of the largest public movements against govt...and it was over beer and liquor, which were practically universally socially accepted, and it STILL took over a decade to withdraw the amendment.

 

The Equal Rights bill has been soundly rejected numerous times for almost a century despite the opposition's grievances having almost nothing to do with any substantive issue.

 

Note how vigorously the American population rallied against the Bank of the United States during the Jacksonian Era, and then adopted the same thing under Wilson without so much as a peep of protest.

 

Note how anti-war protesters even today are marginalized as kooks and crazies, anarchists and thugs. Also note how when that their opposition protests in full force they are marginalized by the protesters as fascists, idolatrous worshipers of the Second Amendment (how dare they), and Confederate revisionists. As we can see today, these rallies have achieved NOTHING except to inflame one side of the populous against the other and to reaffirm how important both "wings" of the media are; we now require them to further fuel and cement our misguided and overly idealist aims into a brush fire of complete detached insanity.

 

What's the commonality here? The government isn't the main point of opposition, though it is unarguably the center of corruption, indecency, and unnecessary extremes of authoritarian power. The people willed it so, they approve of it by leaps and bounds; what little dissent is left is mopped up by the cries of "radical", of "communist", of "anarchist", of a controlled media. And we pat ourselves on the back and worship our own distortions of reality. Let's not beat around the bush here; liberals have just as much a pretension for idiocy, racism, and authoritarianism as the conservatives of our day. There might have been a point in time where I would have called myself a liberal, and loudly aired my disgust towards the overwhelmingly ignorant masses that support the Tea Party and all the other guises of the backers of Corporate Socialism. But I find just as much ignorance in these "liberals", if not only for the fact that they take their media-created "liberal identity" to heart as some sort of badge of honor and ideological finality, as if that was all that needed to be said, as if all they needed to know is what their elected officials told them Democracy or liberalism was.

 

We have failed to correct this; in fact we seem to embrace and revel in this controlled and illusory anarchy. We reinforce it everyday by blogging and face-booking our opinions and then eagerly await the uniformed and joyous responses from the choir of the ideologue. We argue at the water cooler and in the smoking lounge about why FOX is fake puritanical agit-prop or why MSNBC is full of elitist communist mongrels bent on tearing tradition from the face of this country.

 

And in a sense, they would be correct. Tradition has been torn from this country, a tradition of rationalism on all levels, a perpetual desire to remain as objective as possible, a tradition of educating oneself outside the expanding monolith of public institutions, a tradition of class confrontation, a tradition of respect towards the rise of the mechanic and the explorer and the conservationist, a tradition of direct political activism in all levels of society, and when failing that, the overthrow of the structures which had inadequately foretold social, cultural and technological evolutions.

 

My point is that there is no freedom in THIS government, there once was a window of opportunity to re correct and orient it towards its origins, but we have failed. Not the government. WE, the people have failed to correct what was to be OUR instrument of ensuring peace, stability, trade, and civil rights. And this didn't happen over the past few years, or the past decade, or during Vietnam, or after World War Two, or with the Federal Reserve, and so on ad nauseum. No, this happened when the American people embraced partisanship as a means to an end, an end to the ability to truly think critically, an end to the doctrines of the Enlightenment which had birthed this experiment in the first place, an end of individual thinking, and an end to applications of that thinking into a measured discourse consisting of the entirely of the population, out of their own collective interest.

 

The United States of America is an experiment. That experiment has failed, and it has failed horribly. I'm not telling you to mount the ramparts and start calling for riots or civil war, or any of that. If it needs to happen it will happen. But for my sake as well as yours, please do not keep convincing yourself that the way to combat this encroachment and dismantling of the Constitution is to appeal to the very SAME machinery which claims to exist to uphold that very same document. One only needs to look back to the appeals to Parliament during the Stamp Act, and the Olive Branch Petition to see how effective these methods are.

 

So, in short, the time to change government by way of the democratic process has long past. You can either wait and educate yourselves in preparation for the fairly gloomy future to come, leave the country in hopes that wherever your ass lands will be in a better position, or waste time thinking that if you join a protest or a rally sponsored by Starbucks, Comedy Central, or KFC that you will be doing your part to alter the face of American history.

[vamos scorcho]

there are other options.

 

i think people are starting to "wake up" so to speak. it's just a feeling. this is a good thing, no question about it.

the anger is reaching boiling point, and it may spill over. who knows. your options as an American citizen are definitely limited. there are easy routes and difficult routes.

 

a movement will emerge, take my word for it. the question is whether or not the movement will be crushed or whether by some miracle changes will actually be made and good will have its victory.

 

 

 

here is what i believe to be the most important element that we face in this situation

 

if we see it like this:

 

1. us

v.

2. them

 

then "Team Us" needs to pull it together and unify. that means liberals sitting on their blogs talking about anarchism and so on and Tea Party / Fox News viewers and everyone in between somehow need to find common ground and stay there. unity.

 

because everyone on "Team Us" is in the same place. that place is the bottom.

 

so on a smaller scale, discussions between the disgruntled should lead towards a common goal.

 

how do you get a truly substantial amount of people to stop flying for a day or a week or longer? i very, very rarely need to fly. but some people have to...

 

i thought of an idea of finding a solid news source that a greater amount of people could relate to (from all sides of the political spectrum) and trying to get people to tune into that instead of television and commonly accepted news sources.

[vamos scorcho]

personally i'm most likely just going to take the easy route and get to some peaceful location before anything really frightening happens.

 

i'm probably overreacting but i don't want to get hurt or anything. i can't imagine things going on like this forever - or even for another 5-10 years.

 

peace

[Guest cardan]

or all occupying countries pull their forces out of the middle east and go back to the old-school, no-sharp-pointy-things-on-plane rule. fuck...

[jules]

big deal! so someone sort of gets to see your sort of naked body for a split second, and rubs your leg a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

what else are you willing to accept? - how far does this go? It's your attitude which causes further apathy.

 

id accept up to a full on hand job that concluded with a complimentary thanks for flying moist towelette

[oscillik]

mmm lemony

[Guest mafted]

 

[essines]

i would love a guy to fondle my junk just to see his expression when i get a hard on. in public.

[modey]

[spratters]

id accept up to a full on hand job that concluded with a complimentary thanks for flying moist towelette

 

[Guest cardan]

/internet

[awepittance]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story

 

If you don't want to pass through an airport scanner that allows security agents to see an image of your naked body or to undergo the alternative, a thorough manual search, you may have to find another way to travel this holiday season.

 

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.

 

That person will have to remain on the premises to be questioned by the TSA and possibly by local law enforcement. Anyone refusing faces fines up to $11,000 and possible arrest.

 

Click to get the latest Business headlines sent to your phone

 

"Once a person submits to the screening process, they can not just decide to leave that process," says Sari Koshetz, regional TSA spokesperson, based in Miami.

 

Koshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public.

 

Palm Beach Sheriff's Office spokesperson Teri Barbera said PBSO deputies stationed at the airport would become involved when requested by the TSA.

 

"We will handle each incident on a case-by-case basis," she said.

 

No one will be forcibly searched or arrested "just because they refuse to go through the security procedures," Barbera said. "That may rise to the level of suspicious behavior for the TSA, but it wouldn't rise to the level of suspicious behavior for a deputy," she said.

 

But Barbera said that if a person is judged to be a possible threat, deputies are legally permitted to detain and search that individual. "The deputies will do it at the airport just as they would do it anywhere else," she said.

 

Once cleared by the TSA and deputies, the people will be allowed to leave, she said.

 

Meanwhile, the American Civil Liberties Union was urging Americans to petition the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the TSA, to change the new policies.

 

"All of us have a right to travel without such crude invasions of our privacy," the ACLU said in a statement. "Tell DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano to put in place security measures that respect passengers' privacy rights. You shouldn't have to check your rights when you check your luggage."

 

The ACLU outlined ways for citizens to respond to TSA demands at checkpoints and also provided a form letter for filing complaints.

 

But the TSA stuck to its guns. Testifying before Congress Wednesday, TSA Administrator John S. Pistole said inspectors at the nation's airports would enforce the new policies despite complaints that the search methods are too invasive.

 

"We have to ensure that each person getting on every flight is secure," Pistole said.

 

Asked by U.S. Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) about groups that objected to all forms of bodily search on religious grounds, Pistole didn't waiver: "While we respect that person's beliefs, that person's not going to get on an airplane."

 

In March, the TSA introduced AIT scanners -- also known as "nude body" or "whole body' scanners -- and now uses them in more than 60 airports, including South Florida airports: Six each at Palm Beach International and Miami International and 10 at Hollywood- Fort Lauderdale.

 

The machines project a black and white image of a passenger's naked body to a screen in a separate, private room where it is studied by a TSA agent.

 

No face is visible and the agent never sees the person being scanned.

 

TSA officials say the new technology is necessary because it detects not just metal but other potentially dangerous materials, including plastic explosives.

 

Koshetz said the TSA goal is for as many passengers as possible to pass through the AIT machines, rather than the less revealing traditional metal detectors.

 

A recent CBS poll found that 81 percent of people questioned did not object to the AIT system. But some do and an online group called National Opt-Out Day is encouraging passengers to refuse the AIT screening on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, which would force TSA to perform many more manual searches and probably cause long delays.

 

They may be letting themselves in for more than they expect. A policy enacted in the past month allows agents to perform manual searches of passengers, including their private areas, which are much more invasive than the back-of-the-hand technique most often used in the past. Some critics have referred to the technique as "groping."

 

One critic of the TSA is Jon Corbett, 26, of Miami Beach, who this week requested that a U.S. District Court judge in Miami grant an injunction to block the new security methods. Corbett said he plans to fly to New York Thanksgiving Day and had hopes the court would respond before that.

 

"But I'm not sure that will happen," he said.

[jules]

wow thats nuts.

 

 

what happens if a terrorist attack happens with this stuff in place? what then?

[awepittance]

wow thats nuts.

 

 

what happens if a terrorist attack happens with this stuff in place? what then?

 

gotta take it one notch further, maybe a DNA mouth swab or some kind of 'panic test' where a piece of software determines if you are nervous or not (which they already plan to put on airplanes themselves) and if there is a terrorist attack after all that gotta take it even further

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

they just make flying illegal

[Guest nene multiple assgasms]

mandatory cavity searches.

 

of course, they could just actually interview people like the israelis do instead of looking at us naked and groping our crotches, but that would amount to profiling.

[awepittance]

mandatory cavity searches.

 

of course, they could just actually interview people like the israelis do instead of looking at us naked and groping our crotches, but that would amount to profiling.

 

i'm guessing they probably already do profile privately. Our defense against terrorism, even the way the word is used is very similar to the Israeli system. They have probably been our biggest influence in all of this

[Guest hahathhat]

entering israel, a guy pulled me aside and asked me detailed questions until some disaster case of a middle age lady came through causing a fuss.

 

entering france, they explained exactly where i should stand in very, very inexact english/french. they seemed to get extremely pissy at me because i didn't understand that they wanted me to stand an inch to the left or some shit, or that they considered my usb cable "electronics". but they did give me nice little sanitary booties so i didn't have to put my feet on the airport floor.

 

entering the US, they held us on the plane for 30 minutes until customs opened, then tried to squeeze through 300 people in 45 minutes. they ask me stupid questions about fruit. i miss my connecting flight and get stuck at JFK for eight hours.

 

no point to this post, i just hate air travel.

[lumpenprol]

It'll be fun to see how people can mess with the system. Like, if you stuck a message on your body in tinfoil would it "light up" when viewed through one of these scanners?

[Guest hahathhat]

It'll be fun to see how people can mess with the system. Like, if you stuck a message on your body in tinfoil would it "light up" when viewed through one of these scanners?

 

strap on a fake 9" johnson, let it THONK out on the floor during the pat-down, and then pretend to be all distraught that your "secret" has been revealed.

 

then sue the TSA.

[jules]

i dont buy that its anonymous one bit. it would be logical to keep track of who fails. if there is someone on the watchlist that gets scanned then that should be on record. if i am watching certain people, i would want a log of all info every time they go through my security system. to think they are not keeping track of everything is naive.

 

 

edit: awp i have to apologize for being a prick to you. your posts and general stance is right up my alley. cheers.

[delet...]

wow thats nuts.

 

 

what happens if a terrorist attack happens with this stuff in place? what then?

 

gotta take it one notch further, maybe a DNA mouth swab or some kind of 'panic test' where a piece of software determines if you are nervous or not (which they already plan to put on airplanes themselves) and if there is a terrorist attack after all that gotta take it even further

 

if you're a bad flyer or have social anxieties, you're bound to show up as nervous. Whereas someone going in peace to god will be just fine.

[awepittance]

i dont buy that its anonymous one bit. it would be logical to keep track of who fails. if there is someone on the watchlist that gets scanned then that should be on record. if i am watching certain people, i would want a log of all info every time they go through my security system. to think they are not keeping track of everything is naive.

 

 

edit: awp i have to apologize for being a prick to you. your posts and general stance is right up my alley. cheers.

 

haha, if you had been that much of a prick to me i didn't notice so no problem .

 

edit: it's interesting to me that usually news outlets i despise are the only ones covering this in depth right now. Drudgreport.com is covering it more than any other news agencies, it's possible that his website even elevated the concept to public debate, since msnbc, foxnews and cnn all take content from Drudge.

 

these were all on drudge report today

examples:

 

TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/21/clinton-tsa-try-make-airport-screening-intrusive/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fmw01mAvkw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

 

even though i can't stand hypocritical partisan moronic conservatives, i can't complain that a good number of them are getting upset about this too. It's the first time in recent memory where something this controversial and political has crossed party lines.

 

 

and to be extra masturbatory in my post i'll respond to this excellent youtube comment on the above video

 

I don't see anything wrong with this to be honest. People get searched. I got "randomly selected" and I'm a blonde california girl. People want to bitch and moan that their "privacy is being invaded" but if we don't do this and a terrorist hops on a plane or smuggles shit into an airport on someone else they cry that we aren't doing enough. GET OVER IT IT'S THEIR JOB.

 

there will always be people crying 'they aren't doing enough' the simple fact of it is, terrorists will kill people if they want to, extra security, no matter how thorough, will NOT stop someone determined enough to kill a bunch of innocent people. especially if you're talking about suicide terrorism.

[awepittance]

in case nobody saw this yet, ive posted this probably 3 times already to this forum but im going to do it again because im a repetitive bastard

 

1/2 the way into this speech this guy lays out one of the most eloquent explanations of why these types of violations of privacy are important and how the chilling effect is used. IT's not that security necessarily protects us all better directly, what it does indirectly it create a chilling effect where it's designed to 'scare people' away from wanting to commit crimes. I wish i explain my own thoughts on this matter in this way. His example of cameras on school buses hits the nail on the head..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzvHoCzHAwk&feature=related

 

Jonathan Turley on "The Rapid Decline of Transparency and Privacy in America" at the Future of Freedom Foundation's http://fff.org Restoring the Republic, 2008. Taken from part 2 of a 5 part talk