Airports are becoming frightening.

[Guest Richy]

big deal! so someone sort of gets to see your sort of naked body for a split second, and rubs your leg a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

[Guest Karnov]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/airport-scanner-pics-disappoint-masturbators-201011183268/

[awepittance]

big deal! so someone sort of gets to see your sort of naked body for a split second, and rubs your leg a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

 

unfortunately your statement doesn't hold up to the fact that on 9/11 the 19 hijackers used fake bombs to threaten the people on the plane. Laptops are still allowed on planes and one would be easily able to construct a scary looking device by pulling wires out of it and strapping it to their chest.

 

submit to civil rights abuses or be blown up by a terrorist, very interesting false dichotomy, especially considering that if a terrorist wanted to simply kill a bunch of people they would, a body scanner will not stop them. oh and ill mention again that the chances of being killed by a terrorist in this country is statically lower than suffocating in one's own bed. Living in fear of bogeyman seems to make some people feel invigorated though, but who am i to judge one individuals need to feel invigorated via by the old fashioned fear o' terrorists

[Braintree]

So, I don't have a problem with people looking at me naked, as I've been a nude model before, but I think it's ridiculous I get the choice to be visually ogled or physically ogled.

 

Seems like a blatant infringement of the 4th amendment.

[oscillik]

So, I don't have a problem with people looking at me naked, as I've been a nude model before, but I think it's ridiculous I get the choice to be visually ogled or physically ogled.

 

Seems like a blatant infringement of the 4th amendment.

you have no 4th amendment rights

[Braintree]

oh and ill mention again that the chances of being killed by a terrorist in this country is statically lower than suffocating in one's own bed.

 

This.

 

I'm honestly more afraid of being mugged than EVER being in an airplane crash.

[Guest hahathhat]

there is the time-honored practice of making sure you smell like armpit and have bad gas as you go through security. makes them want to move you right along.

[Braintree]

So, I don't have a problem with people looking at me naked, as I've been a nude model before, but I think it's ridiculous I get the choice to be visually ogled or physically ogled.

 

Seems like a blatant infringement of the 4th amendment.

you have no 4th amendment rights

 

Somehow, I don't fully believe this.

[oscillik]

So, I don't have a problem with people looking at me naked, as I've been a nude model before, but I think it's ridiculous I get the choice to be visually ogled or physically ogled.

 

Seems like a blatant infringement of the 4th amendment.

you have no 4th amendment rights

 

Somehow, I don't fully believe this.

you're free to look into it yourself.

 

Border Search Exception

[kaini]

he who would trade liberty for getting his junk groped deserves neither.

[awepittance]

So, I don't have a problem with people looking at me naked, as I've been a nude model before, but I think it's ridiculous I get the choice to be visually ogled or physically ogled.

 

Seems like a blatant infringement of the 4th amendment.

you have no 4th amendment rights

 

Somehow, I don't fully believe this.

you're free to look into it yourself.

 

Border Search Exception

it comes from the unconstitutional patriot act, which is why more people need to not lay down and act like the patriot act is Ok. no one seems to be demanding Obama repeal it, in fact he just renewed it for the 2nd time last month, totally unreported by the mainstream media.

[jules]

big deal! so someone sort of gets to see your sort of naked body for a split second, and rubs your leg a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

 

unfortunately your statement doesn't hold up to the fact that on 9/11 the 19 hijackers used fake bombs to threaten the people on the plane. Laptops are still allowed on planes and one would be easily able to construct a scary looking device by pulling wires out of it and strapping it to their chest.

 

submit to civil rights abuses or be blown up by a terrorist, very interesting false dichotomy, especially considering that if a terrorist wanted to simply kill a bunch of people they would, a body scanner will not stop them. oh and ill mention again that the chances of being killed by a terrorist in this country is statically lower than suffocating in one's own bed. Living in fear of bogeyman seems to make some people feel invigorated though, but who am i to judge one individuals need to feel invigorated via by the old fashioned fear o' terrorists

 

 

i think the fear of the boogeyman has less to do with an individual fear of dying in a plane crash and more to do with how it absolutely crippled the country and economy.

[awepittance]

 

i think the fear of the boogeyman has less to do with an individual fear of dying in a plane crash and more to do with how it absolutely crippled the country and economy.

 

that's an interesting perspective, i think maybe for more collectivist mindset people that's probably the case but i'd argue most people care mostly about the well being of themselves and/or their family. I'm sure a republican brainwashed mother of 4 is more directly afraid of her children dying in a terrorist attack than she is of the crippling of the economy as a result of terrorism

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

wow. i didn't even know this sort of stuff was happening. then again, haven't been in an airport since before 9/11

[jules]

 

i think the fear of the boogeyman has less to do with an individual fear of dying in a plane crash and more to do with how it absolutely crippled the country and economy.

 

that's an interesting perspective, i think maybe for more collectivist mindset people that's probably the case but i'd argue most people care mostly about the well being of themselves and/or their family. I'm sure a republican brainwashed mother of 4 is more directly afraid of her children dying in a terrorist attack than she is of the crippling of the economy as a result of terrorism

 

 

very true. i think overall though, with 9/11, the results of the attack were much much much worse than just 2000 or so people dying. the collective psyche of all americans was a huge wtf, is this real? and it opened an entire world of possibilities of attack. before that, wars were just something we kicked ass at and never lost a soldier to. (im talking perception in my lifetime)

 

the real tragedy, aside from the death toll, was the collapse of thousands and thousands of jobs, housing markets, economy, etc. we are still reeling from it i think.

 

personally, i would not like to see that again and if it means some uneducated fool anonymously checking out my nuts in a 3d scanner to possibly prevent as much as possible, i think im cool with that. there are always cars, boats and trains if it bothers me that much.

[awepittance]

personally, i would not like to see that again and if it means some uneducated fool anonymously checking out my nuts in a 3d scanner to possibly prevent as much as possible, i think im cool with that. there are always cars, boats and trains if it bothers me that much.

 

 

at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the idea that having 3d scanners will make us anymore safe from terrorist attacks is not based in reality. the idea that more security for everybody will protect us from an anonymous crazy person from trying to kill a bunch of civilians is based on a false premise. People who want to commit terrorism will figure out how regardless of what precautions are put into place. that's always been the nature of terrorism, its unpredictable, clever and often involves suicide. broken record pt 2: Remember 'terrorists' on 911 used boxcutters and fake bombs, things which you could easily sneak onto a plane still (with body scanners or groping) as long as you put it in your carry on luggage.

Especially when you consider how unlikely it is to be killed in a terrorist attack, you would be letting irrational fear guide your level of tolerance to be man handled.

[BCM]

fuck planes. i'm getting a boat everywhere.

[SR4]

While I can understand people complaining about it, I fail to understand someone saying "I am going to do something about this."

 

No you aren't. You aren't going to do anything. Sit back and let that sink in for a while.

 

There have literally been hundreds upon hundreds of chances to keep the ideals of a representative republic alive in America since its foundation....I can only think of a handful of these examples that actually positively reinforced that concept. Take one step forward and five miles back, its all good.

 

To quote one of the founding fathers (and one of the most disillusioned with what he had created):

 

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

[awepittance]

While I can understand people complaining about it, I fail to understand someone saying "I am going to do something about this."

 

No you aren't. You aren't going to do anything. Sit back and let that sink in for a while.

 

There have literally been hundreds upon hundreds of chances to keep the ideals of a representative republic alive in America since its foundation....I can only think of a handful of these examples that actually positively reinforced that concept. Take one step forward and five miles back, its all good.

 

To quote one of the founding fathers (and one of the most disillusioned with what he had created):

 

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."

 

i think thats a little bit of a fatalistic mindset understandably brought on by apathy, while i'd normally agree with you i think just the fact that there is a now a public debate about it is a very positive step. I mean it's obviously a shame that there WAS NOT a public debate before the body scanners came into play.

 

edit: i also think that there are more ways to 'do something about it' than there used to be. just spreading information about it in my mind is taking steps in the right direction. empowering people with with the truth instead of propaganda can be an effective means of at the very least fighting a dangerous public myth

edit2: if everybody who cared baout this issue refused to submit to full body scanners, the airlines would loose so much money the TSA would be forced to remove them. It sounds like a pipe dream but you know if this actually happened this would be the result. People still have power, but if you think you don't then you won't have any power. It's a dangerous view in my very strong opinion to say that we have absolutely no hope for freedom, it's in a sense a full surrender to forces that you perceive as evil.

[Dale]

big deal! so someone sort of gets to see your sort of naked body for a split second, and rubs your leg a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

what else are you willing to accept? - how far does this go? It's your attitude which causes further apathy.

[kaini]

fast-forward 10 years...

 

big deal! so someone sort of gets to insert a gloved index finger up my ass for a split second, and feels around a bit. It takes a few minutes and is much better than being blown up by some moronic terrorist.

 

there will always be people who don't have a problem with this shit, and there will always be people who see it as humiliating and ineffective. i think that this is the only lesson i have learned from this.

 

also, security theatre is more effective than a lot of people make out, i think. people can't help sweating.

[J3FF3R00]

It just infuriates me that in the UK and France, if the government raises college tuition or the retirement age, the people get pissed and burn shit.

Here, people just let everything have their way with them.

 

This body scanning / crotch grabbing thing is LUDICROUS in my opinion.

I'm a huge, Obama-supporting liberal but this shit is WAY too much.

It really is molestation and people should put an end to it, whether it is in the name of "security" or not.

 

So why arent you getting pissed and burning shit if youre so infuriated? Are you just gonna sit there and let those airports have their way with you? Go be productive and vandalize and destroy property so the government will learn not to fuck with you. It really worked great for the uk and france, got those laws changed lickety-split.

 

It's a thought. The only problem is that I'd be burning and destroying shit by myself and I would get busted.

[SR4]

There was public debate over the repeal of prohibition too...which oddly enough was one of the largest public movements against govt...and it was over beer and liquor, which were practically universally socially accepted, and it STILL took over a decade to withdraw the amendment.

 

The Equal Rights bill has been soundly rejected numerous times for almost a century despite the opposition's grievances having almost nothing to do with any substantive issue.

 

Note how vigorously the American population rallied against the Bank of the United States during the Jacksonian Era, and then adopted the same thing under Wilson without so much as a peep of protest.

 

Note how anti-war protesters even today are marginalized as kooks and crazies, anarchists and thugs. Also note how when that their opposition protests in full force they are marginalized by the protesters as fascists, idolatrous worshipers of the Second Amendment (how dare they), and Confederate revisionists. As we can see today, these rallies have achieved NOTHING except to inflame one side of the populous against the other and to reaffirm how important both "wings" of the media are; we now require them to further fuel and cement our misguided and overly idealist aims into a brush fire of complete detached insanity.

 

What's the commonality here? The government isn't the main point of opposition, though it is unarguably the center of corruption, indecency, and unnecessary extremes of authoritarian power. The people willed it so, they approve of it by leaps and bounds; what little dissent is left is mopped up by the cries of "radical", of "communist", of "anarchist", of a controlled media. And we pat ourselves on the back and worship our own distortions of reality. Let's not beat around the bush here; liberals have just as much a pretension for idiocy, racism, and authoritarianism as the conservatives of our day. There might have been a point in time where I would have called myself a liberal, and loudly aired my disgust towards the overwhelmingly ignorant masses that support the Tea Party and all the other guises of the backers of Corporate Socialism. But I find just as much ignorance in these "liberals", if not only for the fact that they take their media-created "liberal identity" to heart as some sort of badge of honor and ideological finality, as if that was all that needed to be said, as if all they needed to know is what their elected officials told them Democracy or liberalism was.

 

We have failed to correct this; in fact we seem to embrace and revel in this controlled and illusory anarchy. We reinforce it everyday by blogging and face-booking our opinions and then eagerly await the uniformed and joyous responses from the choir of the ideologue. We argue at the water cooler and in the smoking lounge about why FOX is fake puritanical agit-prop or why MSNBC is full of elitist communist mongrels bent on tearing tradition from the face of this country.

 

And in a sense, they would be correct. Tradition has been torn from this country, a tradition of rationalism on all levels, a perpetual desire to remain as objective as possible, a tradition of educating oneself outside the expanding monolith of public institutions, a tradition of class confrontation, a tradition of respect towards the rise of the mechanic and the explorer and the conservationist, a tradition of direct political activism in all levels of society, and when failing that, the overthrow of the structures which had inadequately foretold social, cultural and technological evolutions.

 

My point is that there is no freedom in THIS government, there once was a window of opportunity to re correct and orient it towards its origins, but we have failed. Not the government. WE, the people have failed to correct what was to be OUR instrument of ensuring peace, stability, trade, and civil rights. And this didn't happen over the past few years, or the past decade, or during Vietnam, or after World War Two, or with the Federal Reserve, and so on ad nauseum. No, this happened when the American people embraced partisanship as a means to an end, an end to the ability to truly think critically, an end to the doctrines of the Enlightenment which had birthed this experiment in the first place, an end of individual thinking, and an end to applications of that thinking into a measured discourse consisting of the entirely of the population, out of their own collective interest.

 

The United States of America is an experiment. That experiment has failed, and it has failed horribly. I'm not telling you to mount the ramparts and start calling for riots or civil war, or any of that. If it needs to happen it will happen. But for my sake as well as yours, please do not keep convincing yourself that the way to combat this encroachment and dismantling of the Constitution is to appeal to the very SAME machinery which claims to exist to uphold that very same document. One only needs to look back to the appeals to Parliament during the Stamp Act, and the Olive Branch Petition to see how effective these methods are.

 

So, in short, the time to change government by way of the democratic process has long past. You can either wait and educate yourselves in preparation for the fairly gloomy future to come, leave the country in hopes that wherever your ass lands will be in a better position, or waste time thinking that if you join a protest or a rally sponsored by Starbucks, Comedy Central, or KFC that you will be doing your part to alter the face of American history.

[Guest Dirty Protest]

It's a thought. The only problem is that I'd be burning and destroying shit by myself and I would get busted.

 

Thats not the attitude. You have night, a dark coat and a canvas bag on your side, least thats the way i rolled when i was younger and had righteous indignation on my side =)

[Guest nene multiple assgasms]

is anybody on watmm planning on participating in tsa opt-out day on the 24th?