Masked gunman kills 14 at Batman premiere in Denver

[soma333]

God, that's the first thing I thought of upon hearing about this....

 

Any watmmers in Colorado who were affected by this aka in that theatre? So so shit.

[ambermonk]

Sorry, that was in bad taste.

 

Seriously though, how many gun crimes is it going to take for them to be banned in the US?

 

I own a rifle, but that doesn't mean I go on shooting sprees like that asshole in the news did. The firing range I go to has strict rules regarding gun safety. I always store my rifle unloaded with the bolt open, too.

 

There are many honest and responsible folks who own guns, believe it or not.

[SR4]

Smetty - yes hunting is legal. I have a friend who's big on guns (he posted a picture of his 5 year old daughter holding a shotgun (unloaded)), he's always trying to get me to go out shooting or go to the range. He is very responsible with his guns though (and he does have handguns) - always locked in a gun safe unloaded with trigger locks, and the ammunition is locked separately from the guns. He has the only key to the gun safe.

Now a question - regarding the constitution (and obviously I'm no constitutional scholar).

Wasn't the second amendment created with regards to a well-armed and organized militia? Is that relevant in this day and age?

Secondly, isn't the Constitution "a living document"? Surely it makes sense to adjust portions of it as social organization changes - otherwise would the founders have allowed for creating amendments at all?

 

Wait, so you can own handguns in Canada? Or are they technically illegal?

 

Yes the Constitution absolutely is a living document, hence the Supreme Court and etc. etc. But the Second Amendment is included under what is often termed the "Bill of Rights" aka. the first ten original amendments (tho the 14th is sometimes considered within it), this are supposed to be the most unalterable, inalienable rights that the Declaration of Independence speaks of. This is why the 2nd among the other ten carry so much cultural weight in American politics, and this whole debate.

 

The scope of the second amendment has been changed to some degree, and its ALWAYS under Supreme Court interpretation. I think the last decision was in 2010 on whether states' rights to determine local gun laws were being infringed upon by the fed. government.

[sweepstakes]

The firing range I go to has strict rules regarding gun safety. I always store my rifle unloaded with the bolt open, too.

 

There are many honest and responsible folks who own guns, believe it or not.

That doesn't help when fear and anxiety take over, though. Both of which American culture does its best to crank up in so many ways. FBI raising the fucking threat level indeed, it's almost like they want more.

[SR4]

Sorry, that was in bad taste.

 

Seriously though, how many gun crimes is it going to take for them to be banned in the US?

The firing range I go to has strict rules regarding gun safety. I always store my rifle unloaded with the bolt open, too.

 

There are many honest and responsible folks who own guns, believe it or not.

That doesn't help when fear and anxiety take over, though. Both of which American culture does its best to crank up in so many ways. FBI raising the fucking threat level indeed, it's almost like they want more.

 

 

well, its as they say, it only takes one to ruin it for the rest of us.

 

The whole "self-defence against govt." I still find a somewhat plausible argument, but today I was really on the anti-gun side when I heard some idiotic fucking radio douche claim that if someone had a permit to conceal and carry in that theater that the result would have been different.

 

Yeah, it would have been different, there might have been even more innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. For fucks' sake this incident didn't happen in a brightly lit, wide open area at 9am. Unless this fantasy gun carrier was a Navy SEAL or some shit, I don't see another gun in the equation helping anyone out here.

[Guest iep]

best to drop down and play dead if there isn't an exit to go to.

 

guess they'll have to starting teaching kids that in elementary school, next to earthquake- and hurricane-emergency plans :(

[baph]

edit:

It makes it hard not to feel like I need to own a gun to protect my self from people who own guns, who own guns to protect them selves from people who own guns.

 

this is what i was about to say.

 

it's gun-toting turtles all the way down

[sweepstakes]

The whole "self-defence against govt." I still find a somewhat plausible argument,

Same, although I can't think of any really good, concrete examples of this.

but today I was really on the anti-gun side when I heard some idiotic fucking radio douche claim that if someone had a permit to conceal and carry in that theater that the result would have been different.

 

Yeah, it would have been different, there might have been even more innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. For fucks' sake this incident didn't happen in a brightly lit, wide open area at 9am. Unless this fantasy gun carrier was a Navy SEAL or some shit, I don't see another gun in the equation helping anyone out here.

Yeah, this is the kind of shit.... So many people don't understand "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." American movies, shows, and video games are constantly pushing this paradigm of good guys vs. the bad guys. But the average good guy can become a bad guy in a flash under the right conditions of stress. Give him a gun and you've got a bloodbath waiting to happen.

 

Also have we forgotten the whole George Zimmerman thing already?

[gmanyo]

i really cant wait to find out this guys motives

Probably has schizophrenia and/or Antisocial Personality Disorder.

[encey]

f statistics show that gun density does not correlate with crime levels, then reducing gun density is probably not the most effective way to reduce crime. Since gun laws per se are not associated with crime reduction (as the Canadian experience and comparison with the United States seems to indicate), it is likely that other strategies would better address America's problem of urban and ethnic violence. Perhaps the effort should be to deal directly with the social conditions that make southerners, blacks, hispanics, and urbanites so much more likely to be victims and perpetrators of crime.

 

Those statistics have to be significant, but I find an important part of the explanatory account missing: The connection between the supposed source of gun crime in southern, urban and non-white culture, on the one hand, and the statistics related to U.S. shooting sprees, on the other. Googling around, I found this:

 

[...] professor James Alan Fox, a criminologist at

Northeastern University in Boston who has been studying mass murder for

the past three decades.

 

Despite the huge media coverage devoted to them, crime statistics

show that there is no upward trend in mass killings — defined as having

four victims or more, not counting terrorism — since the 1970s, he said.

 

[Not the relevant point, but I thought I would include it just for conversation--read on:]

 

So while they are sad when they occur, school shootings are “very few

and far between, and very unpredictable,” Fox said. This suggests that

authorities can do greater good by focusing on the prevention of suicide

and substance abuse than trying to guard against a campus killer.

 

Looking at a more general picture, while mass murders are more common now than in the 1960s, so is murder generally, Fox said.

And although there is no pattern in terms of the way the killings

occur, some trends can be drawn about those committing them, Fox said.

His research indicates that from 1976 to 2008, there were 852 massacres, involving 4,131 victims and 1,176 perpetrators.

 

The perpetrators tend to be older than those committing murders

generally, Fox said, with more than a quarter of those responsible for

mass killings aged over 40, his research shows, and the average age of

those involved in campus shootings being 36.

 

Meanwhile, 60% of those committing mass murders are white, compared

with 47% for murder generally, Fox said, and 94% of the perpetrators are

male, compared with 88% for murder generally.

 

[...]

 

The result must be that authorities struggle to second-guess the

unpredictable acts of lone killers, with factors at play ranging from an

individual’s sense of alienation or personal grievance to mental health

care issues or the availability of weapons.

 

Now, this doesn't give statistics about where gun violence predominates -- and I bet it's true that urban gun violence victims far outnumber those in places where shooting sprees tend to occur. I'd like to know. However, the racial demographics were interesting. Is it just that non-white, urban culture promotes more individual killings, whereas something else causes shooting sprees? And which is more a symptom of 'U.S. culture of guns and violence' at large, if such a thing could be intelligibly picked out?

[chenGOD]

Smetty - yes hunting is legal. I have a friend who's big on guns (he posted a picture of his 5 year old daughter holding a shotgun (unloaded)), he's always trying to get me to go out shooting or go to the range. He is very responsible with his guns though (and he does have handguns) - always locked in a gun safe unloaded with trigger locks, and the ammunition is locked separately from the guns. He has the only key to the gun safe.

Now a question - regarding the constitution (and obviously I'm no constitutional scholar).

Wasn't the second amendment created with regards to a well-armed and organized militia? Is that relevant in this day and age?

Secondly, isn't the Constitution "a living document"? Surely it makes sense to adjust portions of it as social organization changes - otherwise would the founders have allowed for creating amendments at all?

 

Wait, so you can own handguns in Canada? Or are they technically illegal?

 

Yes the Constitution absolutely is a living document, hence the Supreme Court and etc. etc. But the Second Amendment is included under what is often termed the "Bill of Rights" aka. the first ten original amendments (tho the 14th is sometimes considered within it), this are supposed to be the most unalterable, inalienable rights that the Declaration of Independence speaks of. This is why the 2nd among the other ten carry so much cultural weight in American politics, and this whole debate.

 

The scope of the second amendment has been changed to some degree, and its ALWAYS under Supreme Court interpretation. I think the last decision was in 2010 on whether states' rights to determine local gun laws were being infringed upon by the fed. government.

Yes handguns are legal in canada.

http://www.howtogetagun.ca/

 

Ah that's an interesting point about the cultural weight due to the history of it. Maybe the right to carry guns should only apply to guns that were available in 1787.

 

And yeah reading on slashdot - the number of internet heroes there who were all "this wouldn't have happened if everyone were armed" made me seethe. Nothing like a bunch of panicked people with loaded weapons in a dark, smoke-filled environment.

[cruising for burgers]

so, who stopped the guy? i mean, i swear i'm not trying to be a dick but, where's a hero when we need'em??? i've seen people facing armed people before...

[Guest Pennywise]

so, who stopped the guy? i mean, i swear i'm not trying to be a dick but, where's a hero when we need'em??? i've seen people facing armed people before...

 

in movies yeh

[Guest Roksen Creek]

Man, just seen a picture of the suspect, you would never think he would be the type (but I guess you can never tell).

24, was a neuroscience PhD student at University of Colorado-Denver until dropping out last month. Originally from San Diego. No criminal record.

[Guest iep]

i suppose it was a...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dark night in Aurora.

[baph]

And yeah reading on slashdot - the number of internet heroes there who were all "this wouldn't have happened if everyone were armed" made me seethe. Nothing like a bunch of panicked people with loaded weapons in a dark, smoke-filled environment.

 

There are reasons I have avoided slashdot for the better part of 7 years now. And those reasons are: Libertarians.

 

 

EDITED for capital "L"

[cruising for burgers]

so, who stopped the guy? i mean, i swear i'm not trying to be a dick but, where's a hero when we need'em??? i've seen people facing armed people before...

 

in movies yeh

The Pentagon said members of the military were among the casualties.

 

 

i don't know, picturing it exactly as it happened seems a lot more like a movie...

[triachus]

apparently the guy's apartment is boobytrapped with tripwire explosives and they are figuring out how to disable them

 

 

 

if we all had tripwired our homes with explosives none of this would have happened

[chenGOD]

Huh, just read this on another site:

 

Harvard Injury Control Research Center

Homicide

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.

 

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.

 

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

 

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

[gmanyo]

Colorado governor just talked about how we can't let this deranged maniac take away our rights.

[Rubin Farr]

Don't take Bowling for Columbine seriously in any regards. Most of the scenes are staged, and the unlocked doors were in one small city in Canada and the local police were cracking down on it.

 

Michael Moore is a fuck, it's a shame so many liberals worship him.

You can't tell me the scenes with Charlton Heston weren't awesome. No one ever stood up to that guy, I gave Moore credit for that, and whipping out his NRA card. Classic.

 

Edit: some "news" blogs are already tryin to make a video game connection. How much u wanna bet he owned at least one of the Arkham games?

[lumpenprol]

This is a better argument for the existence of God (albeit a sick, twisted, malevolent one) than most I've read:

 

[lumpenprol]

After she narrowly avoided the previous shooting:

 

"I was shown how fragile life was on Saturday. I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath. For one man, it was in the middle of a busy food court on a Saturday evening.

 

I say all the time that every moment we have to live our life is a blessing. So often I have found myself taking it for granted. Every hug from a family member. Every laugh we share with friends. Even the times of solitude are all blessings. Every second of every day is a gift. After Saturday evening, I know I truly understand how blessed I am for each second I am given."

[Joyrex]

so, who stopped the guy? i mean, i swear i'm not trying to be a dick but, where's a hero when we need'em??? i've seen people facing armed people before...

 

According to reports he surrendered without incident. Wish the fucker had topped himself off beforehand and save the courts and everyone the trouble.

 

After she narrowly avoided the previous shooting:

 

"I was shown how fragile life was on Saturday. I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath. For one man, it was in the middle of a busy food court on a Saturday evening.

 

I say all the time that every moment we have to live our life is a blessing. So often I have found myself taking it for granted. Every hug from a family member. Every laugh we share with friends. Even the times of solitude are all blessings. Every second of every day is a gift. After Saturday evening, I know I truly understand how blessed I am for each second I am given."

 

*Puts on Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumours"*

[cruising for burgers]

life's a "beach"...