'Global Warming's Terrifying New Math'

[ignatius]

3 minutes ago, zero said:

yeah man, it's no joke here right now. "they" are saying this could be the 2nd worst drought on record, after the chaos that was 2011. I wasn't living here during that time, but my parents were, and heard all the nutso stuff that went on. trying to get hay for animals became some drug-dealing sorta do you know a guy to get hay from type affair. people's livestock in a lot of places in TX (and the world, of course) are their livelihood, and they get super fuckin stressed when droughts happen... the earth around me right now is sporting big time cracks. tree leaves are yellowing and dropping in mid-summer... I know back in the 2011 drought in Houston that Memorial park lost like 60% of their trees. this is all no bueno, and there doesn't appear to be any immediate solution. just more BS from politicians, who should NOT be running the show, if you ask me. we need like doctors/scientists at this point leading humanity toward a fix, and get politics out of the way. but will that happen? fuck no. we're gonna re-elect Trump in this fuckin place, and I will stop now.

last summer when the PNW had the heat dome for a week all the trees dropped a lot of leaves. i guess it's a defense they have to protect themselves and how any moisture is used or something.. it's one thing triggered by such high temps and dry air. it's a stressor for sure. it was well over 100 degrees for about week and didn't cool down over night which is really unusual. peaked at 118 or 114 or something insane. 

we had wild fires too that summer. it sucked hard. 

i put out water dishes for all the little critters. sat in the basement for a week.

we're supposed to get our first sustained heatwave next week. we've had a couple days at 90 degrees which is fine and normal.. we'll get a 100 degree day or two next week. but looks like more typical type heatwave where it cools overnight every night. 

portugal and spain look to have it pretty rough right now. 

[President Squidward]

A thought I had about climate change, I remember as a kid in 2010, there was 2 whole weeks of rain in the spring. It was actually constant. California wasn't in a drought.

Now for the past 10 years or so, it's been less than 2 weeks every year in socal (maybe 2-3 weeks of the whole year have gotten a bit of rain).

[zero]

3 hours ago, ignatius said:

last summer when the PNW had the heat dome for a week all the trees dropped a lot of leaves. i guess it's a defense they have to protect themselves and how any moisture is used or something.. it's one thing triggered by such high temps and dry air. it's a stressor for sure. it was well over 100 degrees for about week and didn't cool down over night which is really unusual. peaked at 118 or 114 or something insane. 

we had wild fires too that summer. it sucked hard. 

i put out water dishes for all the little critters. sat in the basement for a week.

we're supposed to get our first sustained heatwave next week. we've had a couple days at 90 degrees which is fine and normal.. we'll get a 100 degree day or two next week. but looks like more typical type heatwave where it cools overnight every night. 

portugal and spain look to have it pretty rough right now. 

yeah, trees having leaves yellow/drop in mid summer is definitely a defense mechanism they enact in order to deal with little to no water. I'm seeing it in a lot of areas around here now, since north Texas has not had substantial rain in quite some time. it's certainly a sign that something is wrong in the natural element, if you ask me. 

and props to you for thinking of the critters well being. I am so fucking crazy I think shit like this is their land, not ours. the fuckin ants and shit were here millions of years before humans. humans built houses on their land... and when they want to come visit? they have every fuckin right to do so. I don't even get pissed when I see ants walking around inside my house.

[may be rude]

not great that we're seeing climate destabilization accelerate noticeably. we have been beating our projections consistently.

[zlemflolia]

5 hours ago, zero said:

yeah man, it's no joke here right now. "they" are saying this could be the 2nd worst drought on record, after the chaos that was 2011. I wasn't living here during that time, but my parents were, and heard all the nutso stuff that went on. trying to get hay for animals became some drug-dealing sorta do you know a guy to get hay from type affair. people's livestock in a lot of places in TX (and the world, of course) are their livelihood, and they get super fuckin stressed when droughts happen... the earth around me right now is sporting big time cracks. tree leaves are yellowing and dropping in mid-summer... I know back in the 2011 drought in Houston that Memorial park lost like 60% of their trees. this is all no bueno, and there doesn't appear to be any immediate solution. just more BS from politicians, who should NOT be running the show, if you ask me. we need like doctors/scientists at this point leading humanity toward a fix, and get politics out of the way. but will that happen? fuck no. we're gonna re-elect Trump in this fuckin place, and I will stop now.

so well said, the absurdity of our situation that inevitably comes about from electoral bourgeois representative democracy.  do you see biden doing shit?  no he isn't either.  that's what we get when we elect the bourgeoisie, because they can just move somewhere where the weather's nice and buy food from somewhere else.  the real world doesn't affect them.  in other words, they are disconnected from reality

we need proletariat leaders.  who are doctors and scientists?  wage laborers. 

>The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage labourers.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm

you asked, why don't doctors or scientists lead us?  It's quite clear, they are wage laborers, their labor time is exploited and they aren't able to practice their profession as for example "global health doctors" or someone who takes authority to save the earth from the bourgeoisie destroying it.

only the proletariat are capable of being scientific.  and achieving a scientific form of government: scientific socialism with aims of it leading to communism.  only socialism can save our earth from the climate crisis, it's quite clear capitalism not only has no capability of saving us, but those who run it, the owning class, have no intention of even trying.

[iococoi]

totally bonkers..by trying to save the environment via redux SO² emissions, we actually fuck up the radiative balance of earth, contributing to a faster heat up..

 

[zero]

6 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

so well said, the absurdity of our situation that inevitably comes about from electoral bourgeois representative democracy.  do you see biden doing shit?  no he isn't either.  that's what we get when we elect the bourgeoisie, because they can just move somewhere where the weather's nice and buy food from somewhere else.  the real world doesn't affect them.  in other words, they are disconnected from reality

hey thanks man. look, I know I came at you a little hard in another thread... but I do agree with your assessment that the status quo of this bullshit capitalism regime is not working, and a different system is desperately needed at this point in humanity's existence on this planet. you are right in that the politicians (like Biden) only seem to provide lip service on any serious matter, and then no action ever takes place. BUT in order to change this, you have to have buy-in from all sides, and that seems next to impossible, since you know, politics and all...I do think a more collectivist social model as opposed to individualist is the way to go. but here in good ol USA, everyone is primarily concerned with the greater good and how it affects THEM and not everyone around them. so to get people like this to buy into a more collectivist or socialist model? good luck...

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, zero said:

hey thanks man. look, I know I came at you a little hard in another thread... but I do agree with your assessment that the status quo of this bullshit capitalism regime is not working, and a different system is desperately needed at this point in humanity's existence on this planet. you are right in that the politicians (like Biden) only seem to provide lip service on any serious matter, and then no action ever takes place. BUT in order to change this, you have to have buy-in from all sides, and that seems next to impossible, since you know, politics and all...I do think a more collectivist social model as opposed to individualist is the way to go. but here in good ol USA, everyone is primarily concerned with the greater good and how it affects THEM and not everyone around them. so to get people like this to buy into a more collectivist or socialist model? good luck...

why? to appease the ghosts of the bourgeoisie who wrote that we need their buy-in in their documents?

[zero]

2 hours ago, ilqx hermolia xpli said:

why? to appease the ghosts of the bourgeoisie who wrote that we need their buy-in in their documents?

what's the other option then? a violent overthrow with tons of civilian casualties? isn't that usually the alternative if you don't get acceptance? force your new system down everyone's throats, wipe out (i.e. kill) the dissenters, and then everyone will be happier than pigs in shit, right?

[zlemflolia]

29 minutes ago, zero said:

what's the other option then? a violent overthrow with tons of civilian casualties? isn't that usually the alternative if you don't get acceptance? force your new system down everyone's throats, wipe out (i.e. kill) the dissenters, and then everyone will be happier than pigs in shit, right?

a peaceful overthrow will result in reactionary forces starting a civil war rather than abdicating their throne peacefully.  you think that's the fault of those trying to achieve progress, rather than those perpetrating violence?

isn't it weird that you're defending a political economic order which you just admitted would become violent and murder civilians if people tried to take control to solve the climate crisis among other things?

not only that, but you admit they have no intention to solve climate change, and we know this will essentially kill millions of people and constitute genocide under a regime of effective eco-fascism. 

revolution is unfortunately required. 

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/quotes.htm

A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.
“Report on an Investigation of the Peasant Movement in Hunan” (March 1927), Selected Works, Vol. I, p. 28.

Edited July 20, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

please don't get me wrong, I wish I could have faith in electoral politics and I wish I believed we could just vote for the right people collectively and our various problems would be solved.  it appears however, to anyone paying attention who is being honest with themselves, that this is not a solution at all, and that they simply will not let us do that

when we vote, there is no option to vote against billionaires.  if we try, like with Bernie Sanders, a lukewarm social democrat, they will simply use their massive privately owned media apparatuses to make it appear that he's a joke of a candidate and that Biden is the obvious choice to beat Trump.

provide your alternative idea, what is it you think can solve this if not socialist revolution?  what is your alternative? surely not bourgeois electoral representative "democracy"?

Edited July 20, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[zlemflolia]

40 minutes ago, zero said:

then everyone will be happier than pigs in shit

this is not about happiness, it's about making sure everyone is fed, clothed, housed, educated, provided healthcare, has democracy in their workplace, and has a government in place that meets their needs and does not allow an owning class to try to take control of the means of production, and climate change is solved, but for real, no BS carbon taxes or whatever

happiness is very vague, I don't care if people are "happy".  make of this what you want, I'm sure you will interpret it very negatively.  but happiness is not something you can legislate, only material reality is which generates that happiness.  poor people will be very happy when they get free commie block apartments to live in finally, yes

Edited July 20, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[milkface]

40 minutes ago, zero said:

force your new system down everyone's throats

Not really got a choice. Revolutions won't come from the imperial core, rather they'll happen in developping nations in which the first world requires their exploitation in order for capitalism to "function". Once there's nobody left to exploit there will be no other option. Why do you think the CIA has worked overtime to stop socialism in the third world? You complain of violence but what have capitalist countries been doing since WW2?

[zero]

look, guys, I am not going to go down this path with the both of you. not that I am admitting I am wrong here, just that this online debating with known antagonists on this site is not really a worthwhile use of my time. you guys can talk all you want about these potentialities, assumptions, or whatever theoretical revolutions you have cooked up in your brains. but unless you provide some exact steps as to how this all would actually happen in reality, then it's just all pie-in-the-sky bullshit not worth getting into an angry back-and-forth discussion on.

here's a good quote I saw recently from some WW2 general:

Quote

“Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.”

you guys talk strategy on here all the time, and never logistics as to how your communism plan would actually happen. or you sidestep and just start asking me a bunch of questions, because you don't have anything substantial backing up your belief that this will all happen one day. aaaand this is the global warming thread, so let's stop now. 

[zlemflolia]

On 7/20/2022 at 2:48 PM, zero said:

 this is the global warming thread, so let's stop now. 

climate change IS capitalism.  they aren't separable.  climate change is a multi-dimensional "hyperobject" [https://www.hcn.org/issues/47.1/introducing-the-idea-of-hyperobjects] one perspective of which IS capitalism, the dynamic system generating the environmental changes that themselves generate climate change in numerous unrelated and interconnected ways

[cichlisuite]

On 7/20/2022 at 11:48 PM, zero said:

look, guys, I am not going to go down this path with the both of you. not that I am admitting I am wrong here, just that this online debating with known antagonists on this site is not really a worthwhile use of my time. you guys can talk all you want about these potentialities, assumptions, or whatever theoretical revolutions you have cooked up in your brains. but unless you provide some exact steps as to how this all would actually happen in reality, then it's just all pie-in-the-sky bullshit not worth getting into an angry back-and-forth discussion on.

here's a good quote I saw recently from some WW2 general:

you guys talk strategy on here all the time, and never logistics as to how your communism plan would actually happen. or you sidestep and just start asking me a bunch of questions, because you don't have anything substantial backing up your belief that this will all happen one day. aaaand this is the global warming thread, so let's stop now. 

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'd just like to say that, yes, this is a musical forum, and yes threads get offtopic (which is a nuissance), but debates about complex issues sprout dynamically, because the issues themselves are interconnected and co-dependent, and complex. While I agree that a certain level of topicality must be preserved (and respect), stopping debates in its tracks is what I consider the exact opposite kind of reaction that any concerned citizen (lol) should undertake. If any, it should be accepted with enthusiasm, support, and an intellectual contribution of all parts. We are censoring ourselves by doing to, on the internet, which was supposed to bring people together and nurture creativity and rapid spreading ideas and contributions. It is actually our duty as sovereign personalities to defend the rights of the people and fight against oppression, and crime that imposes its will upon us. We, the "good" (at least relatively still) people must stand, otherwise, the bad gains momentum, and the sacrifice needed to overcome it will be ever greater.

So instead, why don't people stick their heads together, and instead of stubbornly saying "why don't you come up with a definitive and elaborate plan about all and everything" (and do the work on par with the greatest minds of our history (which even statistically speaking it near impossible)), they help out with the holes and weak parts? no single solution will be the right one, and no one person is able to compile it. That's why we need more solidarity, and respectful cooperation.

it's in our best interest to come up with the best solution anyway...

[zero]

1 hour ago, cichlisuite said:

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'd just like to say that, yes, this is a musical forum, and yes threads get offtopic (which is a nuissance), but debates about complex issues sprout dynamically, because the issues themselves are interconnected and co-dependent, and complex. While I agree that a certain level of topicality must be preserved (and respect), stopping debates in its tracks is what I consider the exact opposite kind of reaction that any concerned citizen (lol) should undertake. If any, it should be accepted with enthusiasm, support, and an intellectual contribution of all parts. We are censoring ourselves by doing to, on the internet, which was supposed to bring people together and nurture creativity and rapid spreading ideas and contributions. It is actually our duty as sovereign personalities to defend the rights of the people and fight against oppression, and crime that imposes its will upon us. We, the "good" (at least relatively still) people must stand, otherwise, the bad gains momentum, and the sacrifice needed to overcome it will be ever greater.

So instead, why don't people stick their heads together, and instead of stubbornly saying "why don't you come up with a definitive and elaborate plan about all and everything" (and do the work on par with the greatest minds of our history (which even statistically speaking it near impossible)), they help out with the holes and weak parts? no single solution will be the right one, and no one person is able to compile it. That's why we need more solidarity, and respectful cooperation.

it's in our best interest to come up with the best solution anyway...

I agree with you in theory. but the individuals I was putting my foot down about not getting into a debate over, are known perpetuators of a societal change plan eerily aligned with early 20th century communism. this has been discussed ad nauseam on here over the years, and usually devolves into a back-and-forth finger pointing match, which I am not interested in getting into. if the individuals in question are open for debating sociological ideas in good faith, and not have it turn into a ill-natured "you're always going to be wrong, and I'm always going to be right" type affair, then by all means I am game.

but c'mon man...we've all seen Zeff do the same shit on here for how long now, and he doesn't seem to be changing his tune. I've said it before to him (in fact, I think in this thread) that I do agree with his line of thinking that the status quo is broken, and an entire overhaul of our political and social systems is absolutely needed. but pushing this Marxist stuff time and time again on here has run its course. why doesn't HE realize that you can't make that work in actuality, because y'know, humans are not wired like computers! corruption! all that. if he did explain a, let's say, 21st century version of a societal change plan, using elements of what was right from communism, then tweaking it and integrating more technologically relevant factors to implement amongst the masses, then THAT would be worthy of debate. but debating textbook driven marxism / communism on here time after time? I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in doing that.

[zlemflolia]

29 minutes ago, zero said:

I agree with you in theory. but the individuals I was putting my foot down about not getting into a debate over, are known perpetuators of a societal change plan eerily aligned with early 20th century communism. this has been discussed ad nauseam on here over the years, and usually devolves into a back-and-forth finger pointing match, which I am not interested in getting into. if the individuals in question are open for debating sociological ideas in good faith, and not have it turn into a ill-natured "you're always going to be wrong, and I'm always going to be right" type affair, then by all means I am game.

but c'mon man...we've all seen Zeff do the same shit on here for how long now, and he doesn't seem to be changing his tune. I've said it before to him (in fact, I think in this thread) that I do agree with his line of thinking that the status quo is broken, and an entire overhaul of our political and social systems is absolutely needed. but pushing this Marxist stuff time and time again on here has run its course. why doesn't HE realize that you can't make that work in actuality, because y'know, humans are not wired like computers! corruption! all that. if he did explain a, let's say, 21st century version of a societal change plan, using elements of what was right from communism, then tweaking it and integrating more technologically relevant factors to implement amongst the masses, then THAT would be worthy of debate. but debating textbook driven marxism / communism on here time after time? I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in doing that.

>eerily aligned with early 20th century communism

Not very eerie, I am literally a communist

Anyway you think you are different?  Pushing liberalism.  I differ in what I'm saying so you say I'm "repeating it" or "pushing it".  Are you not?  Just because you believe in the status quo?  If you focused more on what I'm saying than how I'm saying it your posts would be more constructive

Edited July 22, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

[brian trageskin]

imagine the disappointment of having zeff as your son

 

[zlemflolia]

18 minutes ago, brian trageskin said:

imagine the disappointment of having zeff as your son

 

[prdctvsm]

80m sea level rise maps 

[ignatius]

39 minutes ago, prdctvsm said:

80m sea level rise maps 

 

only goes up to 10ft but still interesting. 

https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/

this is a different type of map

https://conspiracyofcartographers.com/sea-level-rise-gallery/

215ft rise my neighborhood is underwater along with most of portland. neat.

 

[may be rude]

that article estimates 5,000 years for the ice to melt, if it all melts. but if things continue to follow the worst case scenario side of the projections then within 100 years the sea level rise will be threatening real cities. watch dhaka, bangladesh. they're already living in a flooded city much of the time. within 300 years, many large, previously inhabited areas may be submerged.

maybe this is why florida is the way it is. it rose from the ocean floor and will return to it

Edited July 23, 2022 by trying to be less rude

[cichlisuite]

15 hours ago, zero said:

I agree with you in theory. but the individuals I was putting my foot down about not getting into a debate over, are known perpetuators of a societal change plan eerily aligned with early 20th century communism. this has been discussed ad nauseam on here over the years, and usually devolves into a back-and-forth finger pointing match, which I am not interested in getting into. if the individuals in question are open for debating sociological ideas in good faith, and not have it turn into a ill-natured "you're always going to be wrong, and I'm always going to be right" type affair, then by all means I am game.

but c'mon man...we've all seen Zeff do the same shit on here for how long now, and he doesn't seem to be changing his tune. I've said it before to him (in fact, I think in this thread) that I do agree with his line of thinking that the status quo is broken, and an entire overhaul of our political and social systems is absolutely needed. but pushing this Marxist stuff time and time again on here has run its course. why doesn't HE realize that you can't make that work in actuality, because y'know, humans are not wired like computers! corruption! all that. if he did explain a, let's say, 21st century version of a societal change plan, using elements of what was right from communism, then tweaking it and integrating more technologically relevant factors to implement amongst the masses, then THAT would be worthy of debate. but debating textbook driven marxism / communism on here time after time? I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in doing that.

I completely agree with you, my post was more general, not necessarily tied in with the Zeff Experience^tm.  I was speaking from my own experience, by knowing some real activists and initiatives myself, they are always the underdogs. Not only fighting the "system", but also ordinary people on every step. Always short of competent lawyers, practical intellectuals, etc.

[milkface]

17 hours ago, zero said:

and he doesn't seem to be changing his tune.

Yeah that's called having an ideology and morals. Why would you change your mind because some internet capitalist told you everything was supposedly fine and that the solution is to just trust society's greedy to not be greedy by themselves?

And I might add, as I said in my previous message it's not about getting western liberals "on board" - they will be the last to get on board. Westerners are ignorant and self indulgent. The "first world" will be the last nations to adapt to socialism and this will inevitably lead to socialism or barbarism when our nations are no longer able to use legal slavery to pillage developping nations and enslave their people and keep them in debt and reliant on us.

Edited July 23, 2022 by milkface