Not Putting Stuff Online

[Cryptowen]

I find myself often tempted with the urge to delete my tumblr/SC/BC/etc & refrain from posting material online. Not for any "UGH I SUCK THIS IS HORRIBLE" type reasons, but more because I find posting things online....cheapens them, somehow. It's like, when I'm working on something, it's unique & personal, but as soon as it goes online it's just another bit of digital faff in a growing sea of digital faff.

 

I'm also a bit of a perfectionist, in a way. I get positive feedback & think "no, stop, I can do better than this, you're encouraging me to be lazy!" With the internet it's so very easy to upload quick sketches the moment you finish them, but (in most cases) is that really how best to represent yourself?

 

So I get that urging, to just take it all down & keep it to myself. If I really want the world to see/hear my work, perhaps I'd be better off keeping it to the irl. Approach a label in private (they'd have a vested interest & say with honesty what was really worth putting out there), join a music collective, play a live show for a bunch of strangers, send visuals off to art galleries or film festivals for consideration, etc. Keep it real, basically. The advantages I see in doing that:

 

-quality control

-honest feedback

-spending more time on work (if only because it'd be way more of a hassle to share it)

-work stays personal instead of being file 40957345 on media site 2849

 

Possible disadvantages:

 

-the internet is a game changer & making use of it may be the only option

-no cloud archive for your own personal use

 

Anyone else have thoughts along these lines? I really don't intend this topic as an emo "wha nobody likes my music the right way thing" but more as a discussion on extreme quality control, because right now my gut is saying "do it dawg, take it down, it'll be way more fulfilling in the long run"

[CharlesWatkins]

i never would put up something that i wasnt proud of, not sure if that answers your question. that said i have 0 tracks on my soundcloud.

[Cryptowen]

i never would put up something that i wasnt proud of, not sure if that answers your question. that said i have 0 tracks on my soundcloud.

Generally I like most/all the stuff I put up (at least at the time I do it), but there's often this lingering sense of "come on man you could do that better" or "oh god there's so much stuff on the internet why am I adding to the pile"

[CharlesWatkins]

well i guess it depends on your own personal perspective as to why you create music in the first place. do you do it for your own pleasure and interest, or are you in it for other reasons.

[sweepstakes]

I put way too much stuff on SC and I ended up deleting most of it. I kind of want to delete everything but I feel like I should put more up there.

 

My momentum has been shit for the last few months so I don't have much perspective on this. When I was doing lots of stuff during the summer, and actually really enjoying what I was doing, was when I was recording everything to 4-track. Which was kind of silly but it worked. But there was also a time in 2009 when I was uploading shit all the time, not to soundcloud but to my private domain where only a couple friends were checking it, and that didn't slow me down at all. I think my quality control went up, actually.

 

TL;DR I don't know what the trick is, but sharing sharing it with a few people instead of the world might keep your momentum up while maintaining quality control.

 

Ideally I would be waiting until I have a bunch of awesome tracks and then whittling them down into an album or EP, then throwing that on bandcamp. I'm OK with that package, for some reason.

[Guest Social Spastic]

the internet is lazy

[Cryptowen]

i never would put up something that i wasnt proud of, not sure if that answers your question. that said i have 0 tracks on my soundcloud.

The actual process of making tracks/drawing/taking photos/writing/etc has always been fun for me, like a hobby, but as far as the finished product goes I want to create something definitive, something that really says something instead of half saying it. Sometimes I'll read a book that's like a constant waterfall of art, or I'll see a picture that evokes deep emotions way down in the soul, or I'll hear an album that somehow turns chords or rhythms or lyrics into an entire pocket universe

 

I want to make stuff like that, & I know I can. It's not an ego thing, it's just "other humans have felt the muse & so can I". But I'm pretty sure you have to be unself-concious & undistracted & methodical to do that. The internet is the enemy to those things. Whenever I scope out the making of process of my favourite books or albums or whatever, it's almost always a case of somebody totally isolating themselves & getting lost in their work for ages, not somebody stopping every day or two & going you know, I wonder how the internet feels about this

[luke viia]

lol, great last line there ^

 

it sounds like you're figuring out what makes you happiest anyway. nothing wrong with keeping tracks to yourself. i do it all the time...and i also put garbage on SC from time to time. i don't consider my account there a musical portfolio in any way though so whatever

[CharlesWatkins]

 

i never would put up something that i wasnt proud of, not sure if that answers your question. that said i have 0 tracks on my soundcloud.

The actual process of making tracks/drawing/taking photos/writing/etc has always been fun for me, like a hobby, but as far as the finished product goes I want to create something definitive, something that really says something instead of half saying it. Sometimes I'll read a book that's like a constant waterfall of art, or I'll see a picture that evokes deep emotions way down in the soul, or I'll hear an album that somehow turns chords or rhythms or lyrics into an entire pocket universe

 

I want to make stuff like that, & I know I can. It's not an ego thing, it's just "other humans have felt the muse & so can I". But I'm pretty sure you have to be unself-concious & undistracted & methodical to do that. The internet is the enemy to those things. Whenever I scope out the making of process of my favourite books or albums or whatever, it's almost always a case of somebody totally isolating themselves & getting lost in their work for ages, not somebody stopping every day or two & going you know, I wonder how the internet feels about this

well thats why so much music sucks these days and peoples standards of what constitues great music have been lowered. it's just another example of how technology can make us dumber.

[Guest Frankie5fingers]

ive started to have thought similar to these too. what i think im gonna start doing is only post preview tracks for my albums. then if i want any advice on a track then make it private and only show people on a site like here to get feedback.

 

why not think about this. if you want to make a living off of selling music then you have to post it to increase any publicity. but that doesnt mean you need to post a new track every week. quantity proves nothing, only quality.

 

basically what im saying is, dont shut yourself away completely. just dont post WIPs and things of that nature. only finished tracks that you are totally satisfied with. if that means 1 track every 2 months then so be it. its not like anyone is going to be mad at you.

[Goiter Sanchez]

The internet is the ultimate source of both inspiration and distraction...

I've noticed that people, in seeking quick and often insubstantial consolation, will flood their tumblr/soundcloud/deviantart etc. with half-formed ideas; work that hasn't had time to gestate or reach its true potential.

Before you upload anything you should think about why you're doing it and whether or not this work gives the consumer the impression of you as an artist that you'd wish to convey. Uploading everything you've ever made in every genre to your Soundcloud page (as so many do) is alienating and counter-intuitive.

 

I'd say you have the right idea Cryptowen; you're ruminating about this issue in the right direction and it sounds to me like you already have the answers that you seek. I often recommend to people that they have at least one computer workstation that doesn't have ready internet access and make that your primary creative center; you'll be amazed how much more you get done when WATMM isn't two clicks away ;p

[Cryptowen]

 

if you want to make a living off of selling music then you have to post it to increase any publicity.

Making a living at it isn't a major concern to me (though the fact that I live on <$9000 a year means it might not be impossible even in today's age of free art for all), I just want to make the best possible work I can

 

I'm sort of flip-flopping between luke's line of thinking & goiter's at the moment, ie - "it doesn't matter if there's some crap up on SC, it doesn't mean anything in the long run" vs "you shouldn't upload half-baked ideas because it ruins their future potential a bit"

 

Being objective I'd say most of the stuff I've put up over the years is at least medium good but none of it is like whooooaaaaaa, & I'd place most of the stuff by other EKT/SC I've heard in this boat as well

 

I think I'm starting to understand why John Baldessari burned his entire body of work in 1970 & followed it up with "I will not make any more boring art". The mind has to be tricked into freeing itself from itself

[sweepstakes]

Haha, Cryptowen, the best replies to this post were your own. Thanks for the good thoughts.

[Cryptowen]

Haha, Cryptowen, the best replies to this post were your own.

Thanks man

This is a topic I've been pondering for a while, ever since putting stuff on the internet started to stop being fun (the actual creative process remains as fulfilling as ever, but there comes a point where it's like "when something is meant for the world to see, you'll know. It hasn't happened yet")

 

Anyways I went ahead & blanked my stuff this morning. There's probably still a few things floating around on torrent sites etc, but as of now I'm more or less a clean slate

[Friendly Foil]

I only use Bandcamp because it's a really easy way to add album covers, tags and stuff to an album. For some reason, I just can't seem to make that work when I do it locally on my computer. After that, I just leave the albums on there. If some people likes it, good for them, they can download it for free and listen to it one more time, before moving it to the trash. If some people don't like it, good for them, it's 100% free and they'll never have to listen to it again.

 

I know this sounds a bit cliché and "hurr, I'm just like afx lol"-like, but my care-level is pretty much at 1/10 these days. I make tracks for myself, and if I someday figure out an even easier way to add tags and album covers to albums and stuff, I probably won't upload a whole lot ever again. There's simply too much music out there, and I kinda feel bad for uploading something that only I feel is actually interesting, while other considers it to be generic garbage.

 

meh

 

edit: does this post even relate to the OP? I'm not so sure.

[sweepstakes]

This is a topic I've been pondering for a while, ever since putting stuff on the internet started to stop being fun (the actual creative process remains as fulfilling as ever, but there comes a point where it's like "when something is meant for the world to see, you'll know. It hasn't happened yet")

All this is very true. I agree that the creative process is as fun as ever, but I find myself dreading actually sitting down and working on tunes now. Once I'm in the flow, it's all good. But when I'm not, I start thinking about relevance and how what I'm doing is redundant, that there's no niche for me and I'm just another sad fish in a sea of people making IDM-ripoff beats in their bedrooms.

 

I think the solution to this is simply unplugging from that grid until, as you say, something worth sharing comes out.

[coax]

Cryptowen lots of good thoughts. I pretty much follow friendly foils attitude, and I do feel all this sc business cheapens music in general. It's not really anyones fault, it's just a side effect of there being so incredible amounts of music everywhere. The listener will need to give it worth by listening to it a lot and digging into the music, that seems to me the only way since almost all narrative of music culture is gone, seems like to me.

 

The other thing with SC is it's plagued with spammers and people who don't care at all about the music they comment on and the people they follow. I get 10 new followers every day who then unfollow me the day after, when I don't follow them back. That kind of thing is pretty toxic imo. Bandcamp is the next best thing to actual label releases I feel, no comment spam and no following. Sounds like what you need Cryptowen, is to go away from the internet for a while and get immersed in art, and then come back and have a proper release on a label. I'm kind of doing this at the moment.

[Cryptowen]

 

edit: does this post even relate to the OP? I'm not so sure.

I'd say it does. The internet does provide a real handy archival & organization system for music, & uploading does provide this freeing sense of "i'm done with that now, it's out, I can do something new". My big issue at current is...uh...wait, I've got an analogy

 

Say there was this king, & he wanted a sculpture built. Now in the old days the king would have studied great works to know what he wanted before going to one of the master craftsmen, someone who'd spent decades honing his art, & given the guy however long he needed to finish his masterwork.

 

But things done changed.

The king's a busy man these days. He says to no one in particular "a'ight y'all, I need me...uh...gimme one of those sculptures like what they made 20 years ago". Everyone in the land sets to work, from masters to hobbyists to some kid who just downloaded sculptyloops 4.0. And at the end of the day, every one of them goes around to anyone who will listen - "look, you see? See what I did today? Here's a sketch of this great sculpture I'm making. Here's a bit of the toe! This will be amazing some day"

 

So we end up not with one great sculpture, but 100s of sculptures ranging from "has potential" to "total dogvom". Maybe there's a few great ones in there, but it's so hard to tell with so many, & so hard to ignore all the experiments & failures that led up to it.

 

That's kinda how art distribution/consumption feels to me these days

 

I think the solution to this is simply unplugging from that grid until, as you say, something worth sharing comes out.

I actually did quit the internet entirely for a while recently, but decided that was too drastic given the wealth of knowledge available. As of right now I'm halting any major output of my own & limiting time in general spent online.

[Guest]

dude, stop making music and publish those Afex adventures, top dollar material!

 

On the serious note: don't worry, be happy. Focus on what's happening inside your music and not outside presentation stuff. You want to change the world by not submitting half ass ideas to soundcloud? Not going to happen, inflation rate is ballin' out of control. Don't let western imposed high standards bog your creative mind down, have fun channeling the universe!

[brian trageskin]

pros: you don't overflow the internet with your shit music, for silence is golden

 

cons: you progress slower because you don't meet criticism

[joshuatxuk]

As an overwhelmed listener of music here's my two cents:

- Don't throw up everything on soundcloud but don't limit it just to promotion of stuff you're releasing formally. Pick your most novel, weird, experimental, and out-there music because, well, why not share it. People crave novelty and uniqueness so make it easier for them to find it. Literally a couple of tracks. Throw up a select few mixes (if you make mixes) especially if you mix tracks from artists and labels you respect. Gives an audience a better idea of who you are. Putting up all ideas and tracks is an obstacle you've made for yourself.

- Release a physical copy - vinyl, CD, cassette (I'm a sucker for cassettes). Couple it with a soundcloud with track previews and/or a bandcamp page with option to buy digital at a lower price. It tells people you're proud enough of your music to commit it to something more permanent and makes it more tangible as a piece of art and creativity. You will have created an artifact for yourself at the very least.

- Anonymity is overrated and now with the internet it's also irrelevant. Don't make yourself hard to contact or reach, but likewise overpromotion is a turn-off. I don't think WATMMers are prone to the latter, that's something I see more often with slick but douchey EDM types. I used to see a lot of people like that on turntable.fm - they had nice websites but also self-described themselves in a very marketing oriented way - the music was always trap sounding EDM. So keep your accounts (FB, SC, Tumblr) nice and tidy and don't make them too redundant in purpose.

- Be succinct and to the point with building your image. Put effort in artwork and track names, and again this is where physical releases are advantageous. After awhile it might be less of an issue (see Autechre - Exai as an example.)

- Seek out labels - promoting yourself isn't a bad thing, spam is only when it's done in a faceless, uncaring manner. Find labels you like and respect but don't limit yourself either. Also I think there's nothing wrong with tailoring your demos to a specific sound and aesthetic for a label demo - after all, most artists release singles, EPs, even LPs on completely different labels with no issue. Take advantage of that reality. Oppurunties to make new projects and aliases can always come later so don't put the cart before the horse.

- A wise man once said "paint your tracks to make them more bananalogue." It's hard to display that with streaming digital media, so keep that mind.

[sweepstakes]

- A wise man once said "paint your tracks to make them more bananalogue." It's hard to display that with streaming digital media, so keep that mind.

wat

[joshuatxuk]

 

- A wise man once said "paint your tracks to make them more bananalogue." It's hard to display that with streaming digital media, so keep that mind.

wat

dis

[sweepstakes]

lol OK that's pretty rad.

[lyst]

I actually dwell on this a lot myself. What I've come down to is work small, work with the little people, if anyone. Most big cliques / crews / groups all started out somewhere as well. Surround yourself with like-minded artists and individuals, no matter how popular they are. I randomly messaged this label a long time ago because I kinda dug a release I heard from them, it was right up my alley, turns out that multiple people in the label had heard my stuff and the label founder was down to release anything I gave them. (And my first physical release should be dropping from them sometime soon, but I am not getting my hopes too far up)

 

Facebook, Soundcloud, all of that can be a way bigger distraction than actually helpful in the advancement of your work. The constant need to check things, messages, comments, view other's work can impede your own progress. Especially if you work and live in the real world and do NOT have much time to spare in the first place. It seems like some people do about 80% internet, 20% actually making music and experimenting with sound. And if all you have is 2-3 hours at most on a day of free time, just do the math.