triachus Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 jesus christ watmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 What is so border-line about writing that Muḥammad was a warmonger, sadist, murderer, rapist and slaver? Those are things many historians agree with. Many of that is in the Quran itself. It is just a book written by a guy in order to gain power. Why should I respect the book or the guy? You shouldn't have to respect the book or the guy. I sure don't. But to claim that terrorism, as some here do directly or indirectly, is the fault of the religion is outright wrong as well. Any violent propaganda that has some credibility in a society will motivate people to do violent stuff (especially kids). In this example it is Islam - (for some people) a religion. For me, a collection of thoughts on a paper by a (maybe schizophrenic) warmonger. If Ted Bundy wrote a book it would have the same impact on me. So yes, Islam is, at least partly, to blame for jihadism and Islamic terrorism because some of its thoughts motivate people to do violence and create generations of hate-filled kids. Just to clarify my general position: Fuck all religions. What is so border-line about writing that Muḥammad was a warmonger, sadist, murderer, rapist and slaver? Those are things many historians agree with. Many of that is in the Quran itself. It is just a book written by a guy in order to gain power. Why should I respect the book or the guy? he was all that? who said it? which historians? what's the percentage of such historians? which todays book write about that? do you know how many non-islamic historians says the opposite? what has been written in quran and what was the context of that? and we're surprised ppl are extremists! and we aren't? Not sure if you are joking or being serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 i honestly could not understand that from what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 What is so border-line about writing that Muḥammad was a warmonger, sadist, murderer, rapist and slaver? Those are things many historians agree with. Many of that is in the Quran itself. It is just a book written by a guy in order to gain power. Why should I respect the book or the guy? You shouldn't have to respect the book or the guy. I sure don't. But to claim that terrorism, as some here do directly or indirectly, is the fault of the religion is outright wrong as well. to claim islamic terrorism has nothing to do with islam, is as retarded as saying it has everything to do with it. I didn't say it had nothing to do with Islam. But the religion is not the perpetrator of the crime, the people are. They obviously subscribe to the religion and use some parts of it to justify their actions, but that doesn't mean the religion is at fault, should be banned, etc. The people are to blame, and if Islam didn't exist, there would any number of other religions or other reasons there in its place to provide to these people an excuse to do terrible shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 jesus christ watmm only at page 6. im sure we can make it to 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-a-m-o Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 you guys obviously know nothing about islam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 It's a religion, and like any religion it claims to have a monopoly on God. I fucking despise any group of people who does that. Letting your worldview be dictated by some book is a sign of mediocrity and doesn't display any autonomy in finding and creating a path for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maitake Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 calm down you're both right.. 1) in this case, it definitely has a LOT to do with the book and the religion 2) it doesn't alwayshumanity is fucking stupid anyway, don't be blind. people find all kinds of excuses to kill each other every day. don't have to venture far on the internet to witness daily atrocities committed outside the first world. violence is not going away, stop pretending like it will. most of us stay in line because of fear but there's a lot of sick fucks who are mad out there. they probably feel that way because their life sucks and feels meaningless or some other god awful condition. rightfully so i guess they're pissed off and mental. you won't ever fix the anger inspired by anguish in man.. that "capitalist non-believer white western pigscum" has become the target lately isn't all that surprising considering western diplomacy lately is it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Joyrex, Chen and co., if it ever crosses your minds to close this thread, or any like it, think of the decent neighborhoods in Chicago that were destroyed when the nearby housing projects were demolished and gang violence spilled out into the wider community. Think of the children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 What is so border-line about writing that Muḥammad was a warmonger, sadist, murderer, rapist and slaver? Those are things many historians agree with. Many of that is in the Quran itself. It is just a book written by a guy in order to gain power. Why should I respect the book or the guy? You shouldn't have to respect the book or the guy. I sure don't. But to claim that terrorism, as some here do directly or indirectly, is the fault of the religion is outright wrong as well. to claim islamic terrorism has nothing to do with islam, is as retarded as saying it has everything to do with it. I didn't say it had nothing to do with Islam. But the religion is not the perpetrator of the crime, the people are. They obviously subscribe to the religion and use some parts of it to justify their actions, but that doesn't mean the religion is at fault, should be banned, etc. The people are to blame, and if Islam didn't exist, there would any number of other religions or other reasons there in its place to provide to these people an excuse to do terrible shit. In my opinion, every violent part in any religious book should be banned. Quran, Bible, Tora... How come religious books are tolerated when spreading hatred and motivating to violence while any modern, hatred-spreading, violent text is banned and its creators prosecuted? Hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Ooze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 EXCUSE ME, DO YOU HAVE A MINT? http://i.imgur.com/zIb676w.gif?noredirect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I didn't say it had nothing to do with Islam. But the religion is not the perpetrator of the crime, the people are. They obviously subscribe to the religion and use some parts of it to justify their actions, but that doesn't mean the religion is at fault, should be banned, etc. The people are to blame, and if Islam didn't exist, there would any number of other religions or other reasons there in its place to provide to these people an excuse to do terrible shit. Obviously religions shouldn't be banned (and people who say they should are dumb), but they shouldn't be immune from criticism either. The exact reason why people do the shitty things they do is far too complicated to ever explain with any one reason, complex and awful shit like this needs to be tackled from all angles imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Joyrex, Chen and co., if it ever crosses your minds to close this thread, or any like it, think of the decent neighborhoods in Chicago that were destroyed when the nearby housing projects were demolished and gang violence spilled out into the wider community. Think of the children. why can't i vent my anger, however wrong it may be? why does everything have to be happy or good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 nuance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I didn't say it had nothing to do with Islam. But the religion is not the perpetrator of the crime, the people are. They obviously subscribe to the religion and use some parts of it to justify their actions, but that doesn't mean the religion is at fault, should be banned, etc. The people are to blame, and if Islam didn't exist, there would any number of other religions or other reasons there in its place to provide to these people an excuse to do terrible shit. Obviously religions shouldn't be banned (and people who say they should are dumb), but they shouldn't be immune from criticism either. The exact reason why people do the shitty things they do is far too complicated to ever explain with any one reason, complex and awful shit like this needs to be tackled from all angles imho. Can you explain why religions (those that are not peaceful) shouldn't be banned? I hear this often but I have never heard a well-explained reason WHY. I can imagine some practical reasons why banning them wouldn't be a good idea but I am interested in your opinion nevertheless. Not trying to be asshole here. I am really curious. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Joyrex, Chen and co., if it ever crosses your minds to close this thread, or any like it, think of the decent neighborhoods in Chicago that were destroyed when the nearby housing projects were demolished and gang violence spilled out into the wider community. Think of the children.why can't i vent my anger, however wrong it may be? why does everything have to be happy or good? You should be able to express whatever opinions you have, I just dislike it when personal and political arguments spill out of the threads that spawned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Can you explain why religions (those that are not peaceful) shouldn't be banned? I hear this often but I have never heard a well-explained reason WHY. I can imagine some practical reasons why banning them wouldn't be a good idea but I am interested in your opinion nevertheless. Not trying to be asshole here. I am really curious. Thanks. If some preacher is calling on people to murder people, then you could make an argument for locking him up. But when other people can interpret away all the nonsense and end up with a completely non-violent version of the same text, then how could you possibly justify banning that? And thankfully most Muslims have done that, and will hopefully continue to do that, attempting to ban the whole lot would be ridiculously counter productive (ignoring all the other reasons why it would a ridiculous thing to do) it would likely increase the support for the violent interpretations (as does shitty foreign policy and many other things). If you want to ban something then you need a very good reason to do so, unless you don't believe in freedom of speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronical Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Whoa, WATMM. I thought you'd be done fighting by page 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 But when other people can interpret away all the nonsense and end up with a completely non-violent version of the same text, then how could you possibly justify banning that? I understand your point, caze, but can you imagine applying the quote above to Mein Kampf? The book was banned until recently. If a text is spreading hatred and motivating to violence, it is banned (at least in my country). Freedom of speech is just a construct and means various level of freedom in various countries. If I sincerely write (as an example): "ALL JEWS MUST DIE!!!" and some people translate this to "JEWS ARE AMAZING", should I be banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Whoa, WATMM. I thought you'd be done fighting by page 6. youunderestimatemypower.jpg Can you explain why religions (those that are not peaceful) shouldn't be banned? I hear this often but I have never heard a well-explained reason WHY. I can imagine some practical reasons why banning them wouldn't be a good idea but I am interested in your opinion nevertheless. Not trying to be asshole here. I am really curious. Thanks. If some preacher is calling on people to murder people, then you could make an argument for locking him up. But when other people can interpret away all the nonsense and end up with a completely non-violent version of the same text, then how could you possibly justify banning that? And thankfully most Muslims have done that, and will hopefully continue to do that, attempting to ban the whole lot would be ridiculously counter productive (ignoring all the other reasons why it would a ridiculous thing to do) it would likely increase the support for the violent interpretations (as does shitty foreign policy and many other things). If you want to ban something then you need a very good reason to do so, unless you don't believe in freedom of speech? Agreed. Ban no texts, no arts, ever. That's my opinion. An actual threat of course should be dealt with, and the line can sometimes be blurry there...nonetheless I'm 100% for free speech. Further, Jev, banning religions impinges upon human rights to do as they so choose. I can think all religions are wrong (as I do) without saying other people don't have the right to follow them if they want. That's their own thing. Even if it's an inherently violent religion/political idea/movement, it should be allowed to exist, forever; anyone who wants to subscribe to that, go for it. However, the second any person acts upon their beliefs in a way that does harm upon others in any way, they should be reprimanded accordingly. I didn't say it had nothing to do with Islam. But the religion is not the perpetrator of the crime, the people are. They obviously subscribe to the religion and use some parts of it to justify their actions, but that doesn't mean the religion is at fault, should be banned, etc. The people are to blame, and if Islam didn't exist, there would any number of other religions or other reasons there in its place to provide to these people an excuse to do terrible shit. Obviously religions shouldn't be banned (and people who say they should are dumb), but they shouldn't be immune from criticism either. The exact reason why people do the shitty things they do is far too complicated to ever explain with any one reason, complex and awful shit like this needs to be tackled from all angles imho. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 banning texts is dumb, but the problem i have is that the texts written in the quran haven't been revised for close to a millenium.. that's before there were dank memes. i mean jesus, buddha and shekel in a cradle, that doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 what a fucking shit association d4mo. "HEY! you don't agree with my sentiments thus i will compare you to a nazi" go hide in the corner how am i supposed to understand what you mean with that if your only response is do you have autism or something? lear to read you moron, I'm saying that if he's ok with the quran I guess he'll be ok with mein kampf. Actually, I am totally okay with Mein Kampf! I've admittedly never read it, but it's just a book filled with words; I'm guessing some of which are discriminatory and/or hateful though, so I doubt I'd agree with the book's author on those points. However, I am SORT OF a superhuman in that I can read a thing, think about the words it says, and choose whether or not to disagree with it; I'm kind of cool, I know, sorry to brag. If I were to read the Quran or Mein Kampf or Catcher in the Rye, and I performed a crazy action because I felt the book directed me to do so (whether or not it actually did...), then I'd be a crazy person. Luckily I'm amazing and can separate words in a book from the reality of murdering actual humans. I tend to feel that most people should have that ability...alas, one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 banning texts is dumb, but the problem i have is that the texts written in the quran haven't been revised for close to a millenium.. that's before there were dank memes. i mean jesus, buddha and shekel in a cradle, that doesn't make any sense. It is impossible to revise them because it is prohibited in the Quran itself. The Quran "is perfect". Period. That is one of the reasons why Islam isn't "just any other religion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 what a fucking shit association d4mo. "HEY! you don't agree with my sentiments thus i will compare you to a nazi" go hide in the corner how am i supposed to understand what you mean with that if your only response is do you have autism or something? lear to read you moron, I'm saying that if he's ok with the quran I guess he'll be ok with mein kampf. Actually, I am totally okay with Mein Kampf! I've admittedly never read it, but it's just a book filled with words; I'm guessing some of which are discriminatory and/or hateful though, so I doubt I'd agree with the book's author on those points. However, I am SORT OF a superhuman in that I can read a thing, think about the words it says, and choose whether or not to disagree with it; I'm kind of cool, I know, sorry to brag. If I were to read the Quran or Mein Kampf or Catcher in the Rye, and I performed a crazy action because I felt the book directed me to do so (whether or not it actually did...), then I'd be a crazy person. Luckily I'm amazing and can separate words in a book from the reality of murdering actual humans. I tend to feel that most people should have that ability...alas, one day... Of course, mate, but why was Mein Kampf banned while Tora, Bible and Quran weren't? All hate-spreading texts should be judged by the same standards, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukeeeee Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I believe all the attacks that have happened on Europe (at least in the major countries) during the past 15 years have inside intelligence foreknowledge or even collaboration. An evil agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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