Adieu Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the road you live on works this way too, yes? this whole "the market" can decide everything is as big a disillusion as believing the state can do likewise there has to be a middle ground, surely? more to the point, why is it that Europeans rarely use these kinda "market-faith" derived positions as core principals? not being a culture snob, just curious, having lived in the US for a while and visited regularly. describing how the NHS works would make some folks i talked with metaphorically spew No, the road I use was funded long ago via government and taxes. It's irrelevant to the discussion of moving forward without government involvement in infrastructure I think. Sure, there is a middle-ground and it's taking government out of as many things as possible, and giving the freedom back to ourselves to make decisions in our best interest. I call this empowerment, and I think it brings the best out of people. I think the domino effect of good this would cause to occur in society is not being taken into account really. It requires people to not be lazy about their medical care, about their choices, it requires the attention of the individual to make sure they are doing the best for themselves, instead of a massive power structure that is trying assure us they are making the right decisions for us. It creates a sort of top down authoritarianism in thinking. I use doctors as an example, because I've had firsthand experience with basically wasting massive amounts of money and time trying to be healed by the medical system, and only when I took the problem into my own hands was I able to achieve good health. Had that authoritarian structure not existed, and I and everyone else around me, understood that doctors aren't authorities on health, it would have changed my approach from the start I think. It would have been much better I think. Even medical certification is sort of a false assurance. Sure, there are some basic things it requires of the doctor to have achieved, but it absolutely does not mean you're going to get a doctor that is good at what they do and makes the right decisions to heal you. They may even make decisions that hurt you, because the medical field is so massive and misguided that this often occurs. Obviously this is generalized and there are GREAT doctors out there, but I propose that they would be there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Communities would hire private protection in lieu of police. They would have the ability to choose the quality of protection they are being provided, and they would have someone to hold accountable, because private companies are much easier to hold accountable than a government structure. The situation would be improved. No it wouldn't, what you are describing is called a protection racket. Maybe if you're lucky some turf war would lead to you being genuinely protected from some bad guys, but then some other gangs would join up to crush the other one, eventually everything would evolve back into a regular centralised state again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Lol edit: maybe it's time to take this conversation to a new thread, he last page has had jack shit to do with the Presidential election. Edited March 23, 2016 by auxien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the road you live on works this way too, yes? this whole "the market" can decide everything is as big a disillusion as believing the state can do likewise there has to be a middle ground, surely? more to the point, why is it that Europeans rarely use these kinda "market-faith" derived positions as core principals? not being a culture snob, just curious, having lived in the US for a while and visited regularly. describing how the NHS works would make some folks i talked with metaphorically spew No, the road I use was funded long ago via government and taxes. It's irrelevant to the discussion of moving forward without government involvement in infrastructure I think. Sure, there is a middle-ground and it's taking government out of as many things as possible, and giving the freedom back to ourselves to make decisions in our best interest. I call this empowerment, and I think it brings the best out of people. I think the domino effect of good this would cause to occur in society is not being taken into account really. It requires people to not be lazy about their medical care, about their choices, it requires the attention of the individual to make sure they are doing the best for themselves, instead of a massive power structure that is trying assure us they are making the right decisions for us. It creates a sort of top down authoritarianism in thinking. I use doctors as an example, because I've had firsthand experience with basically wasting massive amounts of money and time trying to be healed by the medical system, and only when I took the problem into my own hands was I able to achieve good health. Had that authoritarian structure not existed, and I and everyone else around me, understood that doctors aren't authorities on health, it would have changed my approach from the start I think. It would have been much better I think. Even medical certification is sort of a false assurance. Sure, there are some basic things it requires of the doctor to have achieved, but it absolutely does not mean you're going to get a doctor that is good at what they do and makes the right decisions to heal you. They may even make decisions that hurt you, because the medical field is so massive and misguided that this often occurs. Obviously this is generalized and there are GREAT doctors out there, but I propose that they would be there anyway. surely sketchiness would exist in both pvt and public environs? in Britain its frequently the case that advocacy groups & charities regulate/police the public health service, as an example also, if yer US-based & take on the entrepreneurial spirit, build a business small or otherwise, why does the cost of employees health insurance fall on/have to burden the employer? never quite got this angle plenty of folks work hard in the US, yet live decidedly unhealthy lifestyles, obesity for instance why should i (for example) as an employer pay for diabetes treatment if i had good staff but who just liked cake a bit too often? wouldnt that entail prejudicial employment practices etc, ie: you interview someone who has a superb cv but their body-mass index looks a tad pronounced? not judging your ideology, just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the road you live on works this way too, yes? this whole "the market" can decide everything is as big a disillusion as believing the state can do likewise there has to be a middle ground, surely? more to the point, why is it that Europeans rarely use these kinda "market-faith" derived positions as core principals? not being a culture snob, just curious, having lived in the US for a while and visited regularly. describing how the NHS works would make some folks i talked with metaphorically spew Historically, Libertarianism meant "freedom from masters" and had a strong communitarianism component...often with the idea that renting oneself to a master in a capitalist system is immoral In America, it means "freedom from taxes" and "freedom for corporations to do whatever they please" and eschews all the communitarianism stuff for raw unadulterated anarcho-capitalism injected straight in the dick...and if the world turns into Neuromancer or some nightmarish caste system then hey that's okay because "freedom" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Mod could you please move this to a thread about government structures or some shit please? I will respond to everything when I get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 https://youtube.com/watch?v=FVt7U2YIgZs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 not that chomsky's ideas are any better, libertarian socialism is just as silly a concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 not that chomsky's ideas are any better, libertarian socialism is just as silly a concept. I'm not versed enough in the subject to give an opinion, but I'm curious what would you consider be the ideal system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 who the fuck knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 re-Adieu - its brought up some interesting points, no rush bwlad, if u're busy/work stressness, things could wait ;) i can buy into "charity begins at home", but a lot of this appears like the privileged tiers saying "fuck paying for those people, their kids & their kind", when the entire system was built on slavery & genocide and from that perspective & as a Euro-pleb, our own continent owes entire cultures & continents innumerably vast reparations will that ever happen? will it fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 not that chomsky's ideas are any better, libertarian socialism is just as silly a concept. Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 uh-huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Lol edit: maybe it's time to take this conversation to a new thread, he last page has had jack shit to do with the Presidential election. what if Bernie was in the running? comparisons of systems are interesting, particularly @ election time. apologies if a tangent over-extended your train of thought - this thread has been clogged with a virtual highlights package of the worst the US system can throw up every other post but i guess gun-junkies letting off on cam with various hate bs constitutes an actual debate Edited March 23, 2016 by cwmbrancity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Jesus keep this shit on topic. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Lol edit: maybe it's time to take this conversation to a new thread, he last page has had jack shit to do with the Presidential election. what if Bernie was in the running? comparisons of systems are interesting, particularly @ election time. apologies if a tangent over-extended your train of thought - this thread has been clogged with a virtual highlights package of the worst the US system can throw up every other post but i guess gun-junkies letting off on cam with various hate bs constitutes an actual debate Jesus keep this shit on topic. lol Watched that yesterday, it's good shit. The Mexican presidents writing off Trump's suggestion was pretty fucking funny in and of itself, as was the little old lady golfing in the no-man's land. Also, the simple idea of the wall is fucking silly. Just a vast waste of money and resources, it'll never ever ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Lol edit: maybe it's time to take this conversation to a new thread, he last page has had jack shit to do with the Presidential election. what if Bernie was in the running? comparisons of systems are interesting, particularly @ election time. apologies if a tangent over-extended your train of thought - this thread has been clogged with a virtual highlights package of the worst the US system can throw up every other post but i guess gun-junkies letting off on cam with various hate bs constitutes an actual debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sagan Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Lol edit: maybe it's time to take this conversation to a new thread, he last page has had jack shit to do with the Presidential election. what if Bernie was in the running? comparisons of systems are interesting, particularly @ election time. apologies if a tangent over-extended your train of thought - this thread has been clogged with a virtual highlights package of the worst the US system can throw up every other post but i guess gun-junkies letting off on cam with various hate bs constitutes an actual debate The GOAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 of Mendes? i googled Roosevelt + goat & the only thing that comes up is a tale regaling of Teddy R saving someone's pet goat once very generous & much nicer than fucking a dead pig's head for example, unless you really like bacon, then its all-out no safe-words mayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 lol internment camps tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeAreOceans Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Jesus keep this shit on topic. lol Watched that yesterday, it's good shit. The Mexican presidents writing off Trump's suggestion was pretty fucking funny in and of itself, as was the little old lady golfing in the no-man's land. Also, the simple idea of the wall is fucking silly. Just a vast waste of money and resources, it'll never ever ever happen. It obviously won't happen, it's just a political meme in the very literal sense and it's working to gain him support. I guess it works to keep the working class vote tight. I'm just still bemused by his policies and support - he wants to protect welfare, raise taxes on the rich and even mumbled something about not totally shitting over Planned Parenthood, but he seems to have a lot of support from right leaning voters. I guess you can't underestimate the racial angle where he just flies off the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WNS000 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 internment camps tho What was wrong with the camps in the time of war when dealing with a notoriously fanatic enemy nation (at that time)? You have to think in the context of the war. 120 000 of potential saboteurs/terrorists all over the USA in the time of a huge global conflict. I definitely don't try to defend bad/cruel living conditions in the camps (if happened) though. I am just defending the principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Wow, Jev. Just, wow dude. Wtf. sent using magic space waves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) internment camps tho What was wrong with the camps in the time of war when dealing with a notoriously fanatic enemy nation (at that time)? You have to think in the context of the war. 120 000 of potential saboteurs/terrorists all over the USA in the time of a huge global conflict. I definitely don't try to defend bad/cruel living conditions in the camps (if happened) though. I am just defending the principle. The majority of the people in the camps weren't citizens of an enemy nation though, they were US citizens. And if we're locking up potential saboteurs regardless of US citizenship, why not all the Bund members found in this country during the same period? I mean there was an actual US Nazi party encouraging men of German descent to dodge the draft, but I'm supposed to believe Japanese-Americans were an existential threat? The camps were a gross violation of a US citizen's most fundamental rights, and more than a little racist. Edited March 24, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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