Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Crazing]

This is amazing:

 

[ignatius]

this shit happening to me today for whatever reason. 

[xox]

34 minutes ago, ignatius said:

this shit happening to me today for whatever reason. 

You need to prove that you’re not a member of hamas

Edited October 31, 2023 by xox

[zlemflolia]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:48 AM, chenGOD said:

Fucking bullshit medieval death cult vs fucking bullshit archaic death cult that both worship the same fucking stupid voice in the sky but interpret the words slightly differently going to drag us into WW3. 

the worst take.  as israelis sit in homes stolen from palestinians and palestinians look around them at decades of destruction and no potable water, with electricity cut off, i dont think religious interpretations are even remotely the most relevant. if ww3 happens, it should be obvious that it would be the US and Europe's fault for causing this entire situation by enabling their special token ethno-nationalist fascist state in the middle east

Edited October 31, 2023 by zlemflolia

[prdctvsm]

Top UN official in New York resigns over ‘genocide’ of Palestinian civilians (guardian)

[Milwaukeeeee]

Hard footage

https://www.instagram.com/shaunking/

[ignatius]

Leaked: Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

The plan advocates the forced transfer of the population of the Gaza Strip to Sinai permanently, and calls for the international community to be leveraged to assist the move

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/leaked-israeli-plan-to-ethnically-cleanse-gaza

Israeli culture magazine Mekomit published on 28 October a leaked document issued by Israel’s Ministry of Intelligence recommending the occupation of Gaza and total transfer of its 2.3 million inhabitants to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula.

The document, issued on 13 October, identifies a plan to transfer all residents of the Gaza Strip to North Sinai as the preferred option among three alternatives regarding the future of the Palestinians in Gaza at the end of the current war between Israel and the Hamas-led Palestinian resistance.

The document recommends that Israel evacuate the Gazan population to Sinai during the war, establish tent cities and new cities in northern Sinai to accommodate the deported population, and then create a closed security zone stretching several kilometers inside Egypt. The deported Palestinians would not be allowed to return to any areas near the Israeli border.

[chenGOD]

When you've lost Piers Morgan:

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1719457245228925425?s=20

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1719457245228925425?s=20

[ignatius]

30 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

When you've lost Piers Morgan:

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1719457245228925425?s=20

https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1719457245228925425?s=20

and israel's response was basically  "yeah what a bummer. oh well. next"

"it's complicated" - - this is the only clip i could find of this conversation and it's in the young turks video. 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by ignatius

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, zlemflolia said:

the worst take.  as israelis sit in homes stolen from palestinians and palestinians look around them at decades of destruction and no potable water, with electricity cut off, i dont think religious interpretations are even remotely the most relevant. if ww3 happens, it should be obvious that it would be the US and Europe's fault for causing this entire situation by enabling their special token ethno-nationalist fascist state in the middle east

Both Hamas and Netanyahu are guided in their claims to land by religious scripture. Both sides are backed by far larger state entities, the means of their approach (seeking backing from whoever) does not justify the ends (a holy land). War has been fought for religious reasons for fucking millennia and the human race's inability to get past these interpretations of texts by ancient power-seekers hasn't changed (the apostles would be all over social media today), and never forget that for both Hamas and the Zionist, their end goal is a holy land controlled by them.

Hamas Charter: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Netanyahu's ideological underpinnings: https://www.vox.com/2015/3/16/8220035/what-does-netanyahu-think

One can understand why Hamas chose the route they did without condoning their actions. One can also say that Israel is certainly violating human rights without condemning Jews as a whole. One can also see that the root of all this on both sides is religious maximalism, blinding one side to the other's right to exist and practice in peace.

[Crazing]

4 hours ago, ignatius said:

Leaked: Israeli plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza

The plan advocates the forced transfer of the population of the Gaza Strip to Sinai permanently, and calls for the international community to be leveraged to assist the move

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/leaked-israeli-plan-to-ethnically-cleanse-gaza

Israeli culture magazine Mekomit published on 28 October a leaked document issued by Israel’s Ministry of Intelligence recommending the occupation of Gaza and total transfer of its 2.3 million inhabitants to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula.

The document, issued on 13 October, identifies a plan to transfer all residents of the Gaza Strip to North Sinai as the preferred option among three alternatives regarding the future of the Palestinians in Gaza at the end of the current war between Israel and the Hamas-led Palestinian resistance.

The document recommends that Israel evacuate the Gazan population to Sinai during the war, establish tent cities and new cities in northern Sinai to accommodate the deported population, and then create a closed security zone stretching several kilometers inside Egypt. The deported Palestinians would not be allowed to return to any areas near the Israeli border.

I love that this is 'leaked' and not clear as fing day. 

[Crazing]

 

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

Both Hamas and Netanyahu are guided in their claims to land by religious scripture. Both sides are backed by far larger state entities, the means of their approach (seeking backing from whoever) does not justify the ends (a holy land). War has been fought for religious reasons for fucking millennia and the human race's inability to get past these interpretations of texts by ancient power-seekers hasn't changed (the apostles would be all over social media today), and never forget that for both Hamas and the Zionist, their end goal is a holy land controlled by them.

Hamas Charter: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Netanyahu's ideological underpinnings: https://www.vox.com/2015/3/16/8220035/what-does-netanyahu-think

One can understand why Hamas chose the route they did without condoning their actions. One can also say that Israel is certainly violating human rights without condemning Jews as a whole. One can also see that the root of all this on both sides is religious maximalism, blinding one side to the other's right to exist and practice in peace.

I agree with this but it doesn't really address that one side has been crushing the other for decades. Also the state entities bit is not quite given its due. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by aderei

[chenGOD]

42 minutes ago, aderei said:

 

1) I agree with this but it doesn't really address that one side has been crushing the other for decades.

2)Also the state entities bit is not quite given its due. 

1) I don't disagree with the well-established fact that Israel has been crushing Palestine for decades. As I said, one can understand the Hamas tactics without condoning them. I'm simply saying that the root cause of all this is fucking millennia old bullshit.

2) What do you mean?

[Crazing]

1 minute ago, chenGOD said:

1) I don't disagree with the well-established fact that Israel has been crushing Palestine for decades. As I said, one can understand the Hamas tactics without condoning them. I'm simply saying that the root cause of all this is fucking millennia old bullshit.

2) What do you mean?

Im saying that states (you know the ones) have manipulated these areas literally to death without a thought for religion (despite inciting it's divisions and fissures) - just profit and geopolitical stratgetic eyes for control....so while yes sure religion, great power politics is the real driver of the death match. Israel and Hamas (not equal players by any means) are just bit players in this shitfest.

[ignatius]

reported by whom?

[chenGOD]

5 minutes ago, aderei said:

Im saying that states (you know the ones) have manipulated these areas literally to death without a thought for religion (despite inciting it's divisions and fissures) - just profit and geopolitical stratgetic eyes for control....so while yes sure religion, great power politics is the real driver of the death match. Israel and Hamas (not equal players by any means) are just bit players in this shitfest.

Sure, but none of that manipulation or division is possible without the religious element. And the religious element has been a part of it for a long long time, but in modern times has been exacerbated by the Zionist movement on one side and Arab Nationalism/Islamism on the other side. Yes the League of Nations supported the creation of the modern Israeli state, but the idea was mooted by Zionists, with genesis back in the 19th century. On the other hand, the ideology of global jihad is certainly one that needs to be considered.

[zlemflolia]

4 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Both Hamas and Netanyahu are guided in their claims to land by religious scripture. Both sides are backed by far larger state entities, the means of their approach (seeking backing from whoever) does not justify the ends (a holy land). War has been fought for religious reasons for fucking millennia and the human race's inability to get past these interpretations of texts by ancient power-seekers hasn't changed (the apostles would be all over social media today), and never forget that for both Hamas and the Zionist, their end goal is a holy land controlled by them.

Hamas Charter: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Netanyahu's ideological underpinnings: https://www.vox.com/2015/3/16/8220035/what-does-netanyahu-think

One can understand why Hamas chose the route they did without condoning their actions. One can also say that Israel is certainly violating human rights without condemning Jews as a whole. One can also see that the root of all this on both sides is religious maximalism, blinding one side to the other's right to exist and practice in peace.

its pretty obvious that regardless of what small mouth noises and pen strokes they are making, one side is forcing the other into a concentration camp and now groups in that camp are fighting back as they have for a long time.  if religious motivations are so absurd and nonsensical why grant them so much explanatory power to begin with? they're clearly emergent from underlying material causes.

an alien observing and not understanding language whatsoever could see the behaviors and come up with clear explanations.  why is one side not allowed to leave the tiny region of land without drinkable water, while bombs are constantly dropped onto their apartment buildings?  oh look, big surprise, they try to shoot bombs back the other direction but they are swatted away like flies by military technologies imported from the global superpower.  oh look, once again what a surprise, they are trying to break out again, and not nicely

this "both sides" stuff is so ridiculous.  are both sides forcing the others into concentration camps and genociding each other? no, clearly one side is the primary aggressor with many orders of magnitude more significant offensive and defensive capabilities. 

what youre writing is plain genocide genial

what israel is doing is crimes against humanity and genocide against the palestinians

Edited November 1, 2023 by zlemflolia

[zlemflolia]

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

Sure, but none of that manipulation or division is possible without the religious element. And the religious element has been a part of it for a long long time, but in modern times has been exacerbated by the Zionist movement on one side and Arab Nationalism/Islamism on the other side. Yes the League of Nations supported the creation of the modern Israeli state, but the idea was mooted by Zionists, with genesis back in the 19th century. On the other hand, the ideology of global jihad is certainly one that needs to be considered.

pontificate about bullshit all you want, Gaza's population is primarily teenagers and they are being cut off from water and electricity, their hospitals and apartments are being bombed, they are being genocided, and you're rambling about how you think palestinian national liberation movements are equally bad as zionism.  youre being confused by ideology and not looking at what is materially happening.

2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

I'm simply saying that the root cause of all this is fucking millennia old bullshit

can you get more wrong? the root cause of this is an ethno-nationalist settler state backed by the US + Europe, being shipped military equipment and funds to ethnically cleanse the region. 

what is not getting through to you? israel is genociding palestinians in gaza right now.  thats the end of the discussion, there is no more "both sides" after that point

[zlemflolia]

the problem is the existence of israel to begin with.  there should be no ethno-nationalist settler states allowed to exist.  they should not have been allowed to just ethnically cleanse the region, kick everyone out and expect to create a state from nothing through the use of violence.  look how it turned out.  this "thousands of years of religious struggle" stuff is just more mystification and if anything buying into the national history propaganda of israel itself, it has a very fascist nature, buying into this idea that israel is "returning to tradition" of past religious groups in the region.

what a massive and disgusting surprise: the exact ideology used by the Nazis to justify their genocide of Jewish people to create an Aryan homeland is being employed by Israeli fascists to create the state of Israel and justify their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians

Edited November 1, 2023 by zlemflolia

[zlemflolia]

are we just gona forget this shit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

its the first post in the OP so lets not forget it .  this isnt some "both sides" shit

Edited November 1, 2023 by zlemflolia

[chenGOD]

14 minutes ago, zlemflolia said:

what is not getting through to you? israel is genociding palestinians in gaza right now.  thats the end of the discussion, there is no more "both sides" after that point

What is not getting through to you? I have never disagreed with that. I am establishing the root cause, which clearly (if you look at any of the links I posted) extends far into the past before the Balfour Declaration.

5 minutes ago, zlemflolia said:

the problem is the existence of israel to begin with.

Which is a direct result of Zionism, which is of course one of the death cults I'm referring to. Thank you for agreeing with me.

[zlemflolia]

14 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

What is not getting through to you? I have never disagreed with that. I am establishing the root cause, which clearly (if you look at any of the links I posted) extends far into the past before the Balfour Declaration.

Which is a direct result of Zionism, which is of course one of the death cults I'm referring to. Thank you for agreeing with me.

if you take away that root cause but leave the ethno-nationalist settlerism what do you get? the same scenario.  if you take away the ethno-nationalist settlerism but leave the history of religious conflict, what do you get? not this shit.  how are you saying that the religious history is the root cause? the root cause for this current conflict is clearly the US military funding of israel in the modern day and the very existence of israel.

you want to go back to the big bang too? that's not useful, you have to use the most recent root cause.  most people in palestine weren't even alive in this millenia let alone during the founding of israel, this is an ongoing perpetuated problem so its root cause is that one which is ongoingly perpetuated too, not something so far back in the past that nobody alive remembers it.

Edited November 1, 2023 by zlemflolia

[chenGOD]

1 minute ago, zlemflolia said:

not this shit.  how are you saying that the religious history is the root cause? the root cause for this current conflict is clearly the US military funding of israel in the modern day and the very existence of israel.

Lol wars have been fought over religion for millennia man, long before the US was even a country. Hamas is clearly driven by religious ideology (link below) and I've already posted links describing the desire for the creation of a Jewish state by Zionists, who use the US as a means to an end.

https://www.scribd.com/document/371883283/Hamas-A-Historical-and-Political-Background

Without the religion, none of this happens.

The backing of Palestine by foreign states has been well documented, and the Nakba you mentioned was a direct result of the 1948 Arab-Israel war. THe 1948 war was a continuation of revolts by both Arabs and Jews in Palestine that occurred in the 1930s.

What Israel is doing now is obviously a violation of human rights and a war crime, but to make a comparison to another apartheid, the end of apartheid in South Africa was the result of negotiations, not violent protest.

[Crazing]

1 hour ago, chenGOD said:

What is not getting through to you? I have never disagreed with that. I am establishing the root cause, which clearly (if you look at any of the links I posted) extends far into the past before the Balfour Declaration.

Which is a direct result of Zionism, which is of course one of the death cults I'm referring to. Thank you for agreeing with me.

The origin of the problem is colonialism and not religious maximalism imo. 

[chenGOD]

3 hours ago, aderei said:

The origin of the problem is colonialism and not religious maximalism imo. 

No religious maximalism, no colonialism (in this particular situation).