toaoaoad

that's definitely not what i was saying, and as a devoted fanboy myself i'm horrified to be treading such delicate ground. but for someone who has formal training and is an autechre fan, these are considerations that do come up. if you're not affected by it, that's great. but i'd rather move on from autechre now, that quote was just the jumping off point for a bigger discussion at least in my own rambling bullshit here, which i have tried to sum up and hopefully will appease my boo brian. all previously accepted dissonances in a major/minor harmony up to this point only create a clash of only two semitones, for this example say the #11 in a lydian scale. going up in fifths this is the last remaining note of the scale, so even tho it creates a clash with the 5, it still sounds consonant because it fits into the harmony we're using. you go up one more fifth to arrive at the flat 9, and now you have a crunch where the tonic, flat 9 and natural 9 are all trying to fit into the same harmony. this is what is created by the so called "mistake" i'm talking about. usually the way people arrive at this harmonic realm when composing is by mistake when they decide to do modal interchange with the harmony but not the melody. say you're writing a song in d minor and everything's going along fine. you decide to borrow an e flat chord from the phrygian mode, very common choice. but your melody continues to use notes from the original minor scale, in this case the only "bad" note being the natural 2 (e), which would be replaced by a flat 2 (e flat) in d phrygian. harmonically speaking, you're creating a context where d, e flat and e are all existing within the same harmony, and that clash is going to usually sound shitty. two notes a semitone apart have been fine up to this point but now you're asking for three. at the same time, our ears know how to justify that, usually following the melody, and most people don't really notice. but its place in a new realm of harmony with a heavier density of dissonance is what makes it sound "wrong". learning to solo over changes drills this kind of stuff into your head: the wrong note is any note that creates a clash of three semitones in the harmony. final note, when i say three semitones i actually mean three notes separated by a semitone, which i think technically might be "two semitones" but this is already hurting my brain, i can only imagine how you all feel

you're missing the point but that's ok. no idea how brian managed to rope me into this lol you sly devil

ultimately no, at the end of the day "there are no wrong notes" and i think i said that in my post: people listen to this music and hear nothing wrong with it and that's fine. and this particular "mistake" or dissonance is extremely common, and to my ear it is obvious when it is used intentionally or when it signals a gap in someone's knowledge, the latter being far more common. my point was more so about artists using the existing western major/minor/modal systems, writing music that is based on these systems, but at the same time saying "oh we don't use any of that". it's clear with SIGN for example that the intention is to use rich harmony and melodies, even counterpoint in some cases (as with Oversteps)... this is traditional stuff. why are they saying they don't use or understand it if they're using it? why not just learn to do it right? so idk it's obviously a nitpicky thing and i can understand why no one wants to hear this shit, and i'm certainly not trying to convince anyone not to enjoy autechre's music. and yes, it does sound better when you don't use harmonies and melodies that essentially create a 3-semitone clash in a piece that is otherwise adhering to major/minor/modal rules. the more dissonance you're using, the more it will create a logic of its own, but if everything else is major/minor and then suddenly you have this note in there... well yeah maybe that sounds cool to you, and that is what happens over time - this note in particular: since it's so common, i think represents where we are currently, i guess in that regard it's actually the hippest note there is. we're already at a stage in history where "there are no wrong notes" but i think it's useful to take an interest in how we got here.

And thanks for the videos @Satans Little Helper and @thefxbip, I watched a bit, but they are long, so I'll have to come back to it another time. I have to admit I've got a limited capacity for this stuff anymore, reading about it, following the news etc. I'm just as burnt out as anybody else. I kinda envy those who have stopped worrying about it, tho I can see the dangers of their ignorance, but it seems some people have been able to enjoy glimpses of freedom over the past two years and I've just been on edge the entire time. That's my own shit but yeah ignorance really is bliss and I just wonder what it would be like to stop caring and if maybe now is the time.

I couldn't load that page but does it say that Neil Young's outrage had zero impact on spotify endorsing misinformation?

the thing about AE tho is their lack of "traditional knowledge" is very apparent in a lot of their music; even programming their melodic algorithms they overlook certain clashes of notes that are not quite "yeah i thought this clash sounded cool" but rather just, oh they didn't know that when you shift to a phrygian chord in a minor key you can't play the natural second over it (this is probably THE most common "wrong note" i hear in music across genres btw)... and i say wrong note because it doesn't work as an intentionally broken rule, it just doesn't, it sounds like shit every single time. but because the mistake is so common... i guess it's not a mistake anymore? obviously ae fans still eat it up without a second thought. but i digress. i don't understand this pride some people have in rejecting a formal knowledge. if they aren't interested in learning theory, why do they keep trying to write harmonically intricate pieces? you're either in it or not. that was my rant in the melody thread EDIT: and for the record i'm a massive autechre fan (duh) so this criticism has always had to coexist with the massive respect and admiration i have for everything else about their music, the meticulous programming and sound design, all of which i have NO knowledge of at all, so it kinda balances out. but yeah it's balanced with the occasional facepalm at their melodic/harmonic choices and occasional mentions of how proud they are to not know traditional theory, especially when it's so fast and easy to learn the basics. still ego, i'm guessing. it always is

well i think it's also worth noting something that puts people off. when you learn theory from square one you kinda have to "learn the rules before you can break the rules", this is particularly true in jazz education. this is difficult for most people to accept because we live in a world where, musically speaking, anything goes, and we've been listening to all kinds of stuff all our lives that either "break the rules" or are built on pre-established patterns of the "rules" being broken and now sound normal. this just gets truer and truer all the time. but it is extremely helpful to do things that way. play by the rules first. forget everything you know, forget the fact that the notes they're calling "wrong" sound right to you because you heard them somewhere before. music has this "magical" quality for a lot of people and they don't like being told there are rules. and like i say, in the end, the rules do get broken in all sorts of ways, and a lot of the time this eventually results in advancement/expansion of the musical palette itself (i.e. dissonance becomes consonance) if enough people are breaking the same rule or whatever and it becomes commonplace. but there's no shortcut to that. remember any self-taught musician is still benefiting from history. my first year in uni was a bit tedious because i had to take courses with lots of stuff i already knew. and yet that process was actually extremely helpful. knowledge has to be built up sequentially. so yeah i already knew that stuff but it was really useful to go back and reframe it in a structured way, which led to the next thing, and from there the next, etc. and in the end, once you've learned the "rules" (sorry to keep using this word but maybe there's a read the rules joke in there somewhere) then you know how and why to break them. you could jump in and just break them anyway, and maybe even get away with it. but your music will always be better if there's knowledge behind it. it just will. i don't know how else to explain it and a person probably won't believe it until you've experienced it yourself, so you have to want to in the first place. it doesn't mean you have to go on and use everything you've learned. and it absolutely does not mean that education is oppressive. people interpret it that way.... people don't like to be told what to do; this seems truer now than ever with anti-vax rhetoric and all that, the age of the individual, notions of "freedom"... so yeah i guess i don't blame anyone for not wanting to go thru this process unless they really want to enrich their experience as a musician, especially since it's hard to see why until you've gone thru the process yourself.

lol yeah tbh I don't know how long it would actually take someone cause I had the advantage of learning as a kid, where time as we know it works in a very different way than it does for frustrated and impatient adults who already have a notion of themselves as musicians. learning has to be fun/interesting to make you want to do it. it's probably better to go slowly than try to do it in a week or whatever. but i think for the average EKT watmmer this post seems to be directed at, yeah if you're already making music and have been doing so for awhile, but feel you're hitting a wall because you don't know any theory, you could probably watch a handful of youtube videos or get a book or two and learn pretty quickly. the tone of the OP was not quite encouraging lol so it's hard to tell this wasn't just a shitpost. people will only learn if they want to. even being frustrated by obstacles arising out of gaps in knowledge is not necessarily enough to make someone want to put the time and effort into learning something "the legit way". adult learners have lots of ego shit to overcome, never mind reduced cognitive ability (like attention span and ability to retain information), compared to children, so it's no wonder people are resistant. i am exactly this way with plenty of other things i could stand to learn so i don't mean to "talk down" to anyone when i say jfc just pick up a book. even if it's true lol i probably have lots more to say about this idk

I'll have to try it next time I'm downtown... used to live closer to there but I never would have thought to go there (I think I had them confused with that "vegan butcher" place which is called something else..) lol edit: damn page break, this was re: @Zephyr_Nova

Where dis?

Lol I realized I don't actually want to be part of this conversation

I kinda feel like now the unspoken mentality is that we might as well all just get COVID and "get it over with" as if it's part of the path to "the end of the pandemic" and this fantasy of "herd immunity". Is there any actual evidence to support this kind of thinking? Health officials have suggested that there's some kind of "super immunity" that comes from being vaccinated + getting a breakthrough case of COVID. But considering we have no idea what new variants will do, I see this is as little more than their latest effort to soothe people who are already at the breaking point. But in the long term it helps no one - we all thought it was "almost over" with two shots of the vaccine, which was rapidly disproven by Omicron - every time we get our hopes up like this, it leads to poorer handling of the next wave. This is such a fucked up time right now. It's more contagious than ever, hospitals are filling up, testing has completely gone to shit, and contact tracing has been replaced by "assume that you are already a close contact of someone with COVID". Yet I feel like I'm one of the only people still taking it seriously and I wonder if I'm just not supposed to care anymore?

Went looking for a thread like this... These have aged well, and lately I've had a few nights wanting to just be in Perlence-space. Current fav is subrange 3

This thread is tl;dr Just learn some fucking theory, it's not even complicated and you can get a decent grasp on it in like a week probably. Lol at this resistance so many electronic musicians seem to have, as if learning theory is going to box them in. You're already boxed in, as long as you're using the 12 tone tempered system, which you automatically are with any keyboard instrument or equiment or DAW or anything, unless you're making your own tunings (or maybe if you're only working with samples, but even then...) but tbh making your own tunings requires an even more extensive knowledge than standard elementary music theory, so you'd have to be pretty committed to this notion of being unique and unrestricted. My point is, if you are using any standard equipment or instrument to make tracks then you're already working within the tempered system/Western musical theory whether you like it or not. The things you come up with using uneducated, "unrestricted creativity" are still based on that thing you have not learned. And most often your lack of knowledge gives you away. Most of these folks write the most idiotic sounding melodies which in fact sound particularly restricted by the standard tuning system because of the limited options known to you... Just learn some fucking theory, jesus christ (this is not directed at anyone in particular btw)

A Canadian study that vastly underestimated the protection COVID-19 vaccines provide against the Omicron variant is being revised — but not before it spread widely on social media by anti-vaxxers, academics and even the creators of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine. I've been going on those original numbers so this is kinda good to hear

lovely

Thanks for this thread. I think this Badun album comes close to that kind of atmosphere in some places.

How about views into other people's windows? ??Amirite?

Copper Beeches came up on slsk immediately. Not sure if I'm allowed to say that. Can't find any info about this track anywhere tho. Where did you hear about it? We're sure this is legit Bibio? (It's a ten minute droney ambient piece in Cmaj).

Not sure if this ties in at all, or is just something on my end, but a few days ago I started getting a cookies warning on the main page before logging in. Not too crazy about that. No opt-out option to be found.

It's easier to find the melody in sch.mefd 2 than it is to read that post

I always thought this was like a plunder of their own track, sounds like many cut up bits of reverb and stuff from the original track(s) arranged into a beat