ALIEN / PROMETHEUS / COVENANT - SPOILERS INBOUND!!

[syd syside]

The films conclusion is also more interesting now in my mind. The anti-climax of its end represents the emotional feeling of our own fate... how we will grow old, chasing or hoping in our final breaths to find the answers on the other side. The crew on the ship does a cheer, raising their hands in the air, feeling as if they have won... but having no idea what exactly. Continuing to believe there is some kind of trophy awaiting humanity. Something better then what has potentially been dealt.

[Atop]

too deep Compson.

 

Minds will blow.

 

It is just you and I now.

 

 

I was speaking with a friend at work today and he was disappointed with the characters and writing as well.

 

We both agreed that the visuals are the best at present of any film made about space travel.

 

One thing he brought up was the fact that David seemed to know so much without being shown or told anything about the Engineers to which I responded:

 

A) He had been studying ancient languages and the Engineer language looked very similar to Sumerian cuneiform, so this is how he was able to open doors and operate machinery.

 

and B) in the Orrery map room he is watching and taking in everything as the Engineers speak and perform the operations of navigating the ship so therefore he would know how to fly the ship after having witnessed this transaction and be able to speak their language.

 

 

The only problems I have with the film is the ending and how David knew the Engineer was coming after Shaw, and how the Engineer knew where Shaw was. Which could be explained by them having extra sensory capabilities through having more intelligence, but that is a stretch.

 

I will never be able to explain how David knew that Shaw was in trouble though, unless the Engineer vocalized to David in some way that he was going after her.

 

Hopefully on the blu-ray release, this will all be explained with edited footage being put back into the film.

[Silent Member]

The films conclusion is also more interesting now in my mind. The anti-climax of its end represents the emotional feeling of our own fate... how we will grow old, chasing or hoping in our final breaths to find the answers on the other side. The crew on the ship does a cheer, raising their hands in the air, feeling as if they have won... but having no idea what exactly. Continuing to believe there is some kind of trophy awaiting humanity. Something better then what has potentially been dealt.

It's the setup for a fucking sequel. Are you trolling?

[syd syside]

The final shot of the Xeno is hilarious and awesome. Sticking its tongue out. How life continues and will continue to go on long after us and keep evolving beyond our antiquated bodies. I might also suggest that the Engineers have similar flaws. Their wish to control chaos and to eventually shed themselves into something stronger/better. Could the Engineers be ashamed of humans but also in denial that human behavior mirrors their own? Or that there is nothing pure about their genetic make up?

[syd syside]

The films conclusion is also more interesting now in my mind. The anti-climax of its end represents the emotional feeling of our own fate... how we will grow old, chasing or hoping in our final breaths to find the answers on the other side. The crew on the ship does a cheer, raising their hands in the air, feeling as if they have won... but having no idea what exactly. Continuing to believe there is some kind of trophy awaiting humanity. Something better then what has potentially been dealt.

It's the setup for a fucking sequel. Are you trolling?

 

I'm trolling if that makes you feel better about it.

[auxien]

The only problems I have with the film is the ending and how David knew the Engineer was coming after Shaw, and how the Engineer knew where Shaw was. Which could be explained by them having extra sensory capabilities through having more intelligence, but that is a stretch.

 

I will never be able to explain how David knew that Shaw was in trouble though, unless the Engineer vocalized to David in some way that he was going after her.

 

Hopefully on the blu-ray release, this will all be explained with edited footage being put back into the film.

 

my personal theory is David told the Engineer where Shaw was, or was likely to be if he did not in fact know. but the other way, where the Engineer told David he was going after her, is also possible. but the Engineer didn't seem too talkative really. we may never know, they're purposefully obfuscating details like this in set-up for a sequel seemingly, so it may forever be unanswered.

[syd syside]

The only problems I have with the film is the ending and how David knew the Engineer was coming after Shaw, and how the Engineer knew where Shaw was. Which could be explained by them having extra sensory capabilities through having more intelligence, but that is a stretch.

 

I will never be able to explain how David knew that Shaw was in trouble though, unless the Engineer vocalized to David in some way that he was going after her.

 

Hopefully on the blu-ray release, this will all be explained with edited footage being put back into the film.

 

my personal theory is David told the Engineer where Shaw was, or was likely to be if he did not in fact know. but the other way, where the Engineer told David he was going after her, is also possible. but the Engineer didn't seem too talkative really. we may never know, they're purposefully obfuscating details like this in set-up for a sequel seemingly, so it may forever be unanswered.

 

He was no longer mobile, so therefore could no longer touch and explore more stuff. He is essentially dead in a sense. Therefore I think he told the Engineer where Shaw was and also told Shaw the Engineer was coming, because he knew his head would just forever sit there on the ship or he would be destroyed if Shaw did not kill the Engineer and come back for him. He is pleasantly surprised when she shows up and encourages them to go get in another ship and to go explore more.

Edited June 18, 2012 by compson

[gaarg]

About the visual awesomeness.

This movie had one of the best cgi effects ever for me and it was visually GOOD, but my brain wasn't thoroughly satisfied. It's still a movie from out time when it's trendy to make things look rather scientifically believable than filmatically stunning.

[Atop]

It is funny how talking about possibilities within the structure of the story is misconstrued as trolling, when we are just fucking talking about the film.

 

Not everything in a film, or this film, is a trick just to make money.

 

Leading up to a sequel is a part of story writing, and should be discussed.

 

People are blinded by their hatred of the film or a misunderstanding of the film's larger ideas.

 

I know 2001 still garners the same reactions.

 

And it is a much better film/story than Prometheus.

 

Thanks Auxien for joining in the conversation and the not the hatred.

 

David could have told the Engineer where Shaw was, we may never know.

 

 

to Gaarg: you didn't find the first shots of space really beautiful, or was it the fact that they reached the moon too quickly within the story that made it less impressive for you? I can't wait for the blu-ray so that I can pause it on some of the shots.

[syd syside]

There is also something interesting about the relationship David has with films and dreams. You could say he doesn't distinguish a difference between them. And he himself acts and behaves in ways that are dramatically interesting or poignant.. while the other characters are far more clumsy. I think he sees his reality as no different than a film and he sees how Shaw is wrapped up in past emotions rather than exploring the world in ways a third party (like himself) would find interesting, even entertaining.

[syd syside]

Agreed atop, one of the most visually interesting Sci Fiction in a while. Children of Men is also amazing, but different. Sunshine has some awesome sequences... but this was something especially amazing. I can't think of too many other films that had consistent enough visuals of a far away future. It was like time travel.

[Guest Gary C]

Agreed atop, one of the most visually interesting Sci Fiction in a while. Children of Men is also amazing, but different. Sunshine has some awesome sequences... but this was something especially amazing. I can't think of too many other films that had consistent enough visuals of a far away future. It was like time travel.

 

I'd recommend Soderbergh's Solaris.

[syd syside]

Agreed atop, one of the most visually interesting Sci Fiction in a while. Children of Men is also amazing, but different. Sunshine has some awesome sequences... but this was something especially amazing. I can't think of too many other films that had consistent enough visuals of a far away future. It was like time travel.

 

I'd recommend Soderbergh's Solaris.

 

I've seen it, but its been awhile. Don't recall it being as forward thinking on a technological scale, but then again it didnt seem to take place as far in the future? All I can remember were some cool shots of space and the spaceship inside had some nice sets.

[Atop]

I enjoy Solaris v2. I don't think the visual content is anywhere near as stunning as Prometheus. I love the story though. I need to read the novel.

 

I was sweating because of the tension in Prometheus. The 3D was really impressive beyond all post op 3D. Much like Avatar, shot in 3D as well, which I loved for the visuals as well but this film is much more adult/visceral than Avatar which made the experience a lot more suspenseful for myself. It was also a bit warm in the theatre.

 

Prometheus does feel like a true vision of traveling to other worlds for myself. I wouldn't know though. Yet.

 

I met a robotics engineer today and got his card. Might be hitting him up for some realistic science/engineering help in a story idea I have.

[Guest Gary C]

Yeah, Solaris is a lot closer to reality. Earth looks like something pre-BladeRunner, and the space-station is pretty unremarkable.

 

But in terms of sci-fi visuals the "planet" is astounding, whilst the long and lingering shots and broody focus is perfect, post-2001, sci-fi.

[gaarg]

@Atop: Too fast, also a bit too sterile. But this is probably just my taste.

[Guest Gary C]

Yeah, Solaris is a lot closer to reality. Earth looks like something pre-BladeRunner, and the space-station is pretty unremarkable.

 

But in terms of sci-fi visuals the "planet" is astounding, whilst the long and lingering shots and broody focus is perfect, post-2001, sci-fi.

 

Oh, and the soundtrack. Martinez's best.

 

I'd recommend the BBC radio play too. The book is good, but obviously Lem is pretty much autistic in his descriptions.

[syd syside]

Really the hologram tech in both the Prometheus and Engineer ship were the worse aesthetics of the film. Something about the graphics for it seemed too much like a virtual DJ software and not complex flight controls... however despite this it does make logical sense for hud displays to get more and more automated and clean. So in the end its a minor nit pick for me.

 

Solaris soundtrack is indeed amazing.

Edited June 18, 2012 by compson

[Atop]

Yeah I wasn't impressed with the play back visuals as well. The plot points it serves were what impressed me. Another part of the film that is driving people insane I am sure.

 

Why were there recording of activities on the ship? higher life form tech should not be able to be understood by ourselves

How did David know to activate them? By reading the Engineers language on the walls of the pyramid.

What was projecting the holographic replays? Who the fuck knows?

 

Makes me love the film even more.

[syd syside]

From the LA Times:

 

The scene, according to Scott, is the one that tipped the film’s rating from a PG-13 to an R. The director said the only way to land the more family-friendly rating would have been to remove the scene entirely.

 

“They didn’t even want the scene,” Scott said. “It wasn’t about just cutting it down, they didn’t want the scene.”

 

And that was something neither Scott nor studio chief Tom Rothman wanted considering the importance of the sequence and the toll it took on the Rapace.

Needless to say, in addition to being a difficult and emotional shoot for Rapace (see the whole article to hear her talk about her nightmares during the four days it took to get it down), the scene is fundamental to the movie. It’s unclear what the MPAA wanted the makers of Prometheus to replace the scene with.

 

The questions we are left with are numerous, but among them: would it have been PG-13 safe if Shaw had allowed the pregnancy to end in a classic Alien chestburster scene? Was the scene considered too heavy because it was a person deliberately performing surgery on themselves? Or was it considered too heavy because it was a woman performing surgery to remove a growing entity from her body, and the (fully intentional) parallels to pregnancy, birth, and abortion were too strong?

 

 

While I can see the merit of both of those last two arguments, I find it hard to believe that an MPAA rating audience completely missed the bodily choice parallels, and even harder to believe that if they noticed them, it wouldn’t heavily influence their ruling.

 

[beerwolf]

The crew on the ship does a cheer, raising their hands in the air, feeling as if they have won... but having no idea what exactly. Continuing to believe there is some kind of trophy awaiting humanity. Something better then what has potentially been dealt.

 

Thats fair enough compson, and an interesting take on it but the scene wasn't convincing enough in the actual film. In theory this sounds a brilliant idea, in practice and acted out on film this scene looked stupid. And there lies the problem.

[Silent Member]

I don't think this film should be pg 13 even with the abortion removed. good call MPA.

[syd syside]

The crew on the ship does a cheer, raising their hands in the air, feeling as if they have won... but having no idea what exactly. Continuing to believe there is some kind of trophy awaiting humanity. Something better then what has potentially been dealt.

 

Thats fair enough compson, and an interesting take on it but the scene wasn't convincing enough in the actual film. In theory this sounds a brilliant idea, in practice and acted out on film this scene looked stupid. And there lies the problem.

 

It looked stupid because it was stupid. There is no way to do a touchdown symbol while crashing your ship into another ship, killing you and your crew without it feeling cliche... but I think the captain's american/southern attitude and interest in having sex over figuring out what was moving on the radar shows us that he represents someone who is lacking critical thinking skills. The scene did come across as the most cheesy part of the entire film, when it had been building up to its climax. I am thinking this was purposefully anti-climatic and overdone... the audience of course doesn't want Earth to be destroyed, but everyone essentially dying including the last Engineer leaves us conflicted because we also know the big questions of why they wanted to kill us and why they created us died as well. Then when the ship kills Charliez and then seemingly kills Shaw, this adds to the anti-climax... the reverse in tension is so masterfully disappointing... all this build up to meeting our maker and Weyland just dies on the spot... only about 5-6 minutes later for a second we think everyone in the entire movie is dead. Some may see this as just crappy filmmaking, and that is understandable. But the more I think about Prometheus and specifically the character David... the more I think this film is mocking current culture's predictability and humanities stupidity over the big questions of creation.

Edited June 18, 2012 by compson

[Alcofribas]

"purposefully anti-climactic and overdone," "masterfully disappointing"

 

zole

 

[Guest Gary C]

"purposefully anti-climactic and overdone," "masterfully disappointing"

 

zole

 

I should start making music again.