catholic wedding

[cumberland sauce]

Just don't take your children.

 

If you have children.

 

(Because all Catholics are pedophiles who desire to rape your children.)

 

This,

 

And look out for the way a catholic smiles too

 

 

smile back and lick your lips back at him, Watch the fucker run away

 

[schlucharski]

whats the deal here ? with what kind of christians do you hang out ? theres probably 1000 categories of them. I am christian and atheist at the same time. I went to my cousins catholic wedding, it was fun, childhood memories etc, we're educated ppl, welcome to europe, no one believes that cute little story. catholicism was a cultural transformation machine, giving intellectual ppl more power. Hard to believe, today.

 

What I can't believe is how narrow minded brainwashed hipster opinions are. everyone keeps repeating the same retarded shit all over again.

[encey]

No springy I completely disagree. You could change it to a "snake" or a "corpse" just as easily and both of us would likely not respect the marriage. If you thought either of those were gross or something I could argue that you're just not open-minded enough. And both have been done by individuals or groups of people in different cultures around the world, even in recent years.

 

I just really dislike the idea of belief in something that cannot be falsified. Especially when things become highly ritualized and when people celebrate the idea of "faith" in something that they know they cannot prove or disprove. Like the great Bertrand Russell says in that clip we should suspend judgement on matters that we cannot prove.

 

"it seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true."

 

I am excited kinda to be living in the age of the new atheism and agree with people like Harris that in some ways the moderates hold up human progress even more than the fundamentalists.

 

So, when I'm looking around myself at these weddings at my friends and loved ones and seeing some of them mouthing rituals or shouting "Praise his name" and starting down paths that lead towards the moderate religious path (just like Bob Dobs parents etc) where it becomes likely that the kids will go that way and then their kids will go that way and ON and ON, I get really angry.

 

humans have the capacity to be smarter, more resourceful, more open and honest, and frankly more moral than religion teaches us to be.

 

geez sorry guys.

 

1. Just try to translate as much of the language as you can into something intelligible in secular terms, or else, intelligible in terms that you yourself would accept as capturing your understanding of whatever 'spiritual life' involves (although I get the sense that for you that is null). That way, you can 'hear through' the doctrinal language to the point of the rite, which is for two people to commit themselves to sharing a life lived in the name of the ideas that they think make for a good human life on Earth, which in this case, happen to be described in terms of letting Jesus come in you, but so be it.

 

2. That said, I have been to a bunch of Catholic weddings, and so many were by people who were only half-heartedly or just conventionally Catholic, so that the whole ceremony felt empty and formulaic and didn't come across as expressing anything the couple sincerely believed or wished for their marriage -- indeed, in at least two, the couple sat beside each other in chairs and only looked at each other for part of the ceremony! And don't even get me started on motherfucking I Corinthians 13:4! (Although a Christian friend of mine made a lovely ceramic plate for my wife and me as a wedding gift, that contained this passage in both Chinese (my friend's native language) and her own English translation, which really brought out the true substance and spirit of the passage more than its typical recitation.)

 

3. Like the great Kant said, "Human Reason has this peculiar fate that in one species of its knowledge it is burdened by questions which, as prescribed by the very nature of reason itself, it not able to ignore, but which, as transcending all its powers, it is also not able to answer"; "I have therefore found it necessary to deny knowledge [of the existence of God, freedom and immortality], in order to make room for faith."

 

I am christian and atheist at the same time.

 

wat

[YO303]

 

 

 

I am christian and atheist at the same time.

 

wat

 

it's a riddle, his name is Christian.

[chassis]

yeah doesn't sound like too much to ask.

 

not sounding like the most open minded of people franklin.

Id have to agree with this.

 

People who shove their atheism in peoples faces are just as bad as those really fucking annoying religious people. To be honest, I find them worse, because theres an air of smugness around them. Im not religious, but I dont have to tell everyone I meet that theyre wrong and Im right.

 

Sorry that was a bit of a rant. Just chill, and let anyone do whatever makes them happy as long as it doesnt affect you. If they want you in their wedding party you should be honoured (assuming you respect this person) and try and do whatever you can to make their day better. Its probably going to be less than 2 hours of your life.

[Fred McGriff]

I'm a practicing catholic. this thread is now called "Ask a practicing Catholic"

[chassis]

I'm a practicing catholic. this thread is now called "Ask a practicing Catholic"

 

How much long are you going to be practising, you not ready for the real thing yet?

 

EDIT THE BIG LEAGUES

[Fred McGriff]

I'm a practicing catholic. this thread is now called "Ask a practicing Catholic"

 

How much long are you going to be practising, you not ready for the real thing yet?

 

EDIT THE BIG LEAGUES

 

I'm practicing till I die. The real thing is being with Jesus Christ in heaven.

[chassis]

I'm a practicing catholic. this thread is now called "Ask a practicing Catholic"

 

How much long are you going to be practising, you not ready for the real thing yet?

 

EDIT THE BIG LEAGUES

 

I'm practicing till I die. The real thing is being with Jesus Christ in heaven.

 

He's gonna keep you on the bench. Jesus appreciates experience.

[YEK]

i'm going to a catholic wedding this summer, a close friend of mine. i dunno, i'm more shocked that he's getting married. nothing wrong about it but i can't see myself settling down for awhile. the truth bullets are my old friends getting married having kids and shit.

[joshuatxuk]

yeah doesn't sound like too much to ask.

 

not sounding like the most open minded of people franklin.

Id have to agree with this.

 

People who shove their atheism in peoples faces are just as bad as those really fucking annoying religious people. To be honest, I find them worse, because theres an air of smugness around them. Im not religious, but I dont have to tell everyone I meet that theyre wrong and Im right.

 

Sorry that was a bit of a rant. Just chill, and let anyone do whatever makes them happy as long as it doesnt affect you. If they want you in their wedding party you should be honoured (assuming you respect this person) and try and do whatever you can to make their day better. Its probably going to be less than 2 hours of your life.

 

That's the key right there, straight up respect. The atheists I know are very reserve about their views. They won't mention it unless directly asked. I think partly it's because in this country "not believing in something" turns you into a pariah to a degree. But I also find that they actually focus on their actions and deeds instead of seeking some kind of religious criteria to affirm their life choices and their judgements of others. I have a friend who is a bit more snarky and militant online but IRL he's quite friendly. He's even willing to listen to religous people and at worst simply shakes his head and says something like "that's cool...I just don't get it." I never have been and never will be an athiest but I sympathize with them. I'm spiritual but irreligious. My beliefs are more akin to George Harrison; if I can't see or percieve "God" then I have no reason to believe in a specific set of doctrine and especially no right to force my beliefs on others.

 

As for the topic Franklin, I'd say this. At least your friend's fiance is, at least from what I gather, a sincere practicing Catholic. There are couples that submit themselves (or their partners) through couples classes just to get married in a specific Church. There are parents that force their sons or daughters who had an unplanned pregnancy to enter into shaky, even obviously troubled marriages simply because "that's what the bible says." I know for a fact that a few partners, even if they are both Christian, have qualms about leaving or joining "a different religion" (i.e. Catholic instead of Protestant or vice-versa.) Those kind of arbitrary "struggles" are the absolute worst. Misses the point of marriage entirely. I hope they're happy in the end. And I hope the reception kicks ass and has an open bar.

[foresense]

the thing I don't like about religion is the chain of command shit. the strict rules. the commandments. spiritual I get religion, and can appreciate that sort of mystical stuff, I really do. but all this praying and worshipping... if there was any god or gods around I would be like yo appreciate the work you are doing running all this stuff, but you do your thing and I will do mine k thx bye.

[Guest Franklin]

yeah doesn't sound like too much to ask.

 

not sounding like the most open minded of people franklin.

Id have to agree with this.

 

People who shove their atheism in peoples faces are just as bad as those really fucking annoying religious people. To be honest, I find them worse, because theres an air of smugness around them. Im not religious, but I dont have to tell everyone I meet that theyre wrong and Im right.

 

Sorry that was a bit of a rant. Just chill, and let anyone do whatever makes them happy as long as it doesnt affect you. If they want you in their wedding party you should be honoured (assuming you respect this person) and try and do whatever you can to make their day better. Its probably going to be less than 2 hours of your life.

 

That's the key right there, straight up respect. The atheists I know are very reserve about their views. They won't mention it unless directly asked. I think partly it's because in this country "not believing in something" turns you into a pariah to a degree. But I also find that they actually focus on their actions and deeds instead of seeking some kind of religious criteria to affirm their life choices and their judgements of others. I have a friend who is a bit more snarky and militant online but IRL he's quite friendly. He's even willing to listen to religous people and at worst simply shakes his head and says something like "that's cool...I just don't get it." I never have been and never will be an athiest but I sympathize with them. I'm spiritual but irreligious. My beliefs are more akin to George Harrison; if I can't see or percieve "God" then I have no reason to believe in a specific set of doctrine and especially no right to force my beliefs on others.

 

As for the topic Franklin, I'd say this. At least your friend's fiance is, at least from what I gather, a sincere practicing Catholic. There are couples that submit themselves (or their partners) through couples classes just to get married in a specific Church. There are parents that force their sons or daughters who had an unplanned pregnancy to enter into shaky, even obviously troubled marriages simply because "that's what the bible says." I know for a fact that a few partners, even if they are both Christian, have qualms about leaving or joining "a different religion" (i.e. Catholic instead of Protestant or vice-versa.) Those kind of arbitrary "struggles" are the absolute worst. Misses the point of marriage entirely. I hope they're happy in the end. And I hope the reception kicks ass and has an open bar.

 

 

The original point of the thread was to discuss really whether or not I could contain my irreverent views as part of the wedding party standing in front of a large religious gathering, not on whether I would start some sort of speech at the front trying to change people's opinions...

 

but I understand where you're coming from in that first paragraph dude, and trust me I've been like that my whole life. I don't say anything like this publicly ever, mostly b/c I think that when people turn their brains on they are kinda like you and me and don't really believe in the fairy tale stuff in the big religious texts. Recently though I've revised my position on what is in fact more smug, and that is not saying anything and secretly judging people. I also get worried that with people like Romney and Santorum garnering damn near 40% of the vote (mind you there are a lot of republicans that probably tolerate the religious stuff for the other benefits) I worry that we won't be leaving the world in a better place for our kids and their kids.

 

If people remember my own wedding was actually somewhat dominated by a religious priest who "blessed" our rings and made several references to how we didnt want anything religious but how he couldnt stop himself. My wife was fucking furious and I was totally chill because the dude was an old guy, and I kinda felt sorry for him.

 

Anyways I'm doing the wedding, and I'm going to try to write a great speech that has hidden messages and hits on all of the important topics like strip clubs, and strip clubs. (and no I don't actually go to strip clubs:)

[jules]

Franklin, I was brought up and confirmed catholic but have long since parted ways. Mrs. Dob and I had a catholic wedding though, and now the time is nigh to have our infant daughter baptized. The only reason we did / will do these things is to humor our parents, particularly hers as they had a priest in the family (since deceased). If he's your friend, I'd say bite your tongue, humor him, and try to think about baseball or sex throughout the entire service, maybe ogle a bridesmaid or two.

 

It's funny talking to my parents (who are way more open-minded) about catholicism, basically they're as disillusioned about the church as we are, but like that scene where darth vader is bringing luke to the emperor, it's too late for them. What with their irish/italian/french canadian parents, catholic school upbringings, etc.

 

Truth bullets.

 

Just put yourself in your friend's shoes. It's important for him to be surrounded by his close buds at a very intimate moment.

I got married about a year and a half ago (in a very non-religious ceremony) and if any of my groomsmen would have declined, it would have really hurt my feelings. All he's doing is showing you that you are important to him. You should feel honored. Just sayin.

 

boom, real talk here. same boat.

 

he is your boy, don't be selfish and make anything about you on his day. he has a lot more to worry about. be a bro and support your homie.

[joshuatxuk]

The original point of the thread was to discuss really whether or not I could contain my irreverent views as part of the wedding party standing in front of a large religious gathering, not on whether I would start some sort of speech at the front trying to change people's opinions...

 

but I understand where you're coming from in that first paragraph dude, and trust me I've been like that my whole life. I don't say anything like this publicly ever, mostly b/c I think that when people turn their brains on they are kinda like you and me and don't really believe in the fairy tale stuff in the big religious texts. Recently though I've revised my position on what is in fact more smug, and that is not saying anything and secretly judging people. I also get worried that with people like Romney and Santorum garnering damn near 40% of the vote (mind you there are a lot of republicans that probably tolerate the religious stuff for the other benefits) I worry that we won't be leaving the world in a better place for our kids and their kids.

 

If people remember my own wedding was actually somewhat dominated by a religious priest who "blessed" our rings and made several references to how we didnt want anything religious but how he couldnt stop himself. My wife was fucking furious and I was totally chill because the dude was an old guy, and I kinda felt sorry for him.

 

Anyways I'm doing the wedding, and I'm going to try to write a great speech that has hidden messages and hits on all of the important topics like strip clubs, and strip clubs. (and no I don't actually go to strip clubs:)

 

Gotcha. Yeah, the fact that Santorum is still even relevant scares the fuck out of me. The hypocrisy around all of it is even worse (the disdain for public health care, the fact that they excuse 3x divorced Gingrich because he embraces homophobic laws). Santorum and other such figures have made me more cynical and angry at organized religion and it's insance influence on public policy. They're fucking delusional bullies. Hell, I don't think Goldwater or Nixon could hypothetically fucking run this year. (I think a lot of non-zealots are voting for Romney, but still, he's jumped on board with the rest of the far-right rhetoric imo). I hope, hope the moderates simply aren't coming out to vote in the primaries. I think it's mostly the evangelicals, old folks, general crazies, etc. Anyway, I hope this is considered an embrassing chapter in our history before I succumb to old age.

 

 

Sorry about that aspect of your wedding, sounds like you handled it quite well though. My wife and I really lucked out with the officiant we had. It was still religious but he stuck by exactly what he said he'd do, after discussing it with us in detail. I think he messed up the wording once (man and wife instead of husband and wife or something) but we didn't even notice during the ceremony.

[takeshi]

*thanks jebus that girlfriend is a lapsed catholic*

[springymajig]

 

No springy I completely disagree. You could change it to a "snake" or a "corpse" just as easily and both of us would likely not respect the marriage. If you thought either of those were gross or something I could argue that you're just not open-minded enough. And both have been done by individuals or groups of people in different cultures around the world, even in recent years.

 

I just really dislike the idea of belief in something that cannot be falsified. Especially when things become highly ritualized and when people celebrate the idea of "faith" in something that they know they cannot prove or disprove. Like the great Bertrand Russell says in that clip we should suspend judgement on matters that we cannot prove.

 

"it seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it's useful and not because you think it's true."

 

I am excited kinda to be living in the age of the new atheism and agree with people like Harris that in some ways the moderates hold up human progress even more than the fundamentalists.

 

So, when I'm looking around myself at these weddings at my friends and loved ones and seeing some of them mouthing rituals or shouting "Praise his name" and starting down paths that lead towards the moderate religious path (just like Bob Dobs parents etc) where it becomes likely that the kids will go that way and then their kids will go that way and ON and ON, I get really angry.

 

humans have the capacity to be smarter, more resourceful, more open and honest, and frankly more moral than religion teaches us to be.

 

geez sorry guys.

 

The thing is.... I agree with these opinions... I was raised in a Christian household, and I believe that (amongst MANY other things) it contributed to my high levels of anxiety. Sometimes it makes me so angry I just want to break something. But the point is, I don't. Because I know that acting like a caveman or a grumpy teenager about something that upsets me, doesn't help anyone. Maybe that's bottling things is, but then when I calm down later on I feel much better about it.

 

That first post of yours just made it sound like you deal with your anger towards this kind of behaviour in a similar way to the kinds of people that probably make you angry. Try to be the better man, and just keep it calm. We don't have to be as bad as them.

 

Atheism is the true road to peace (both internally and globally), I'm sure you'll agree with me on that one. So... as has been said before... just chill man.

[keltoi]

a man who knows says nothing.

 

(oops)

[GORDO]

I think it's ok in catholic weddings to not show up for the ceremony but do for the party.

[Guest RandySicko]

Franklin, why don't you share your true emotions with your friend instead of complaining on a message board. He may not even want you there after realizing you're struggling with the idea of supporting him based on your own selfish notions, dissing his wife for dedicating her life to a greater purpose than sitting her ass down on the couch infron of the television on Sundays.

[BobDobalina]

Ironically enough when I got home the very evening of my previous post, my wife informed me that she spoke to a pastor (at the church my parents belong to) about getting our kid baptized; apparently this guy wants to have us in to talk about becoming parishioners... f that. Anyone have any experience playing hardball with the catholic church?

 

Somewhat unrelated, but when we lived in Ireland we had a roommate that wrote a letter to the catholic archbishop or whomever, basically excommunicating herself and asking that all record of her rites be permanently stricken. I always thought that was pretty badass.

[Guest Franklin]

Franklin, why don't you share your true emotions with your friend instead of complaining on a message board. He may not even want you there after realizing you're struggling with the idea of supporting him based on your own selfish notions, dissing his wife for dedicating her life to a greater purpose than sitting her ass down on the couch infron of the television on Sundays.

 

I've explained that this is expressly not selfish. This comes from a desire to serve the greater good. And second, when you say "she's dedicating her life to a greater purpose" you're engaging in a circular argument (aka begging the question) by assuming in the first place that the purpose that going to church serves is greater than not doing so.

 

stop being so silly randy.

 

Ironically enough when I got home the very evening of my previous post, my wife informed me that she spoke to a pastor (at the church my parents belong to) about getting our kid baptized; apparently this guy wants to have us in to talk about becoming parishioners... f that. Anyone have any experience playing hardball with the catholic church?

 

Somewhat unrelated, but when we lived in Ireland we had a roommate that wrote a letter to the catholic archbishop or whomever, basically excommunicating herself and asking that all record of her rites be permanently stricken. I always thought that was pretty badass.

 

I don't think they play hardball... they are the umpires and announcers or something. is that a good analogy?

the self-excommunication thing is fucking badass. If I was a catholic and did that I would frame the excommunication notice.

[Guest Franklin]

i was just thinking of

 

extreme position: we know God (or a First Cause) exists though we have no decent proof and use faith (predominantly) OR use what you consider unscientific views on what is considered proof

middle or neutral position: We really don't know whether or not God exists... let's use the scientific method to explore all options.

extreme position: God (a First Cause) doesn't exist

 

I'm really espousing a middle-ground or neutral position. right?

 

and also, fuck that religion thread. I got way too angry in there!

[Guest Franklin]

also also, Randy, I forgot to address your first criticism which I do not think is bad: my friend likely would be pissed although i think he knows and that was way he was a bit reticent to ask and said several times that he would understand if I was against the idea. It does seem a bit shitty to weigh being an ineffectual and bit-part dissenter for the public good heavier than being a good friend to him.

 

fuck sorry triple jeez.

[jules]

Ironically enough when I got home the very evening of my previous post, my wife informed me that she spoke to a pastor (at the church my parents belong to) about getting our kid baptized; apparently this guy wants to have us in to talk about becoming parishioners... f that. Anyone have any experience playing hardball with the catholic church?

 

Somewhat unrelated, but when we lived in Ireland we had a roommate that wrote a letter to the catholic archbishop or whomever, basically excommunicating herself and asking that all record of her rites be permanently stricken. I always thought that was pretty badass.

 

we had our son baptized as well, also for our parents. we just had to watch some silly video at the church and chat the weekend before. it was maybe 2 hours.