depression

[MadameChaos]

after a short search i came across this information about gabapentin on wikipedia.

 

"In 2009 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a warning of an increased risk of depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors in patients taking gabapentin, along with other anticonvulsant drugs^[43] modifying the packaging insert to reflect this.^[38] A 2010 meta analysis confirmed the increased risk of suicide associated with gabapentin use.^[44]"

 

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185674

 

bupropion looks interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion plus it could help you give up smoking.

Edited January 2, 2015 by IrisAndTheLens

[goDel]

Hey Fiz, what happened to your change in diet?

 

I just went through the thread and found this rather optimistic post of yours:

 

I dont know.. I spend probably all 15-20 years of my life in a state of depression and anxiety.. to date I have had zero relationships, gave up every friend I ever made, rarely ever left my house except for food, to buy video games, etc..

Once I changed my eating habits almost everything I ever felt crappy about, anxious about, depressed about, you name it.. it lifted like a fog looming over my life. Absolutely vanished.
It's been almost a year and a half now i've been experimenting with the extremes of human diet and since having adhered 100% to ancestral eating patterns I can honestly say I experience a sum total of zero anxiety, zero depression, and 100% motivation to do everything I ever wanted to. I rarely ever get tired and my mood is 100% stable 24/7, 7 days a week.

I can't tell you how many people I have told this to (i've since stopped, pretty much noone believes me that food had a part in it) who say "Oh, it's all in your head." Yeah, whatever. If it was just that easy why was I unable to make the appropriate choices before? Why was my nervous system an absolute wreck?

People are so convinced these days that there's a "chemical imbalance" in their neural network that makes them depressed and anxious.. If by chemical imbalance you mean malnourishment I would whole heartedly agree.. Western diet has a profound affect on the dopaminergic and serotonergic systems in our brain.. suprise, suprise: almost every anti-depressant and anxiolytic ever prescribed affects both neural systems too.

For a while earlier in the year I kept attempting to assign "cheat" days and consume pleasure foods only on those days.. pizza, fast food, snack foods.. things I was convinced I couldn't live without forever.
Each and every time my brain fog and lethargy would come back rapidly, i'd sleep most of the day and feel strange moods and anxiety again.. didn't take long and I would almost say I was depressed again.
Needless to say I stopped.

Animals, vegetables, fruit, tubers is it then. :)

I don't mean to make any of you feel like your problems aren't real, or suggesting that your drug treatments are ineffective, don't help you, or whatever. I understand that depression and anxiety is a complex thing and not very well understood.. I don't know everything nor do I know what you feel like either. I do feel like my experience isn't unique to me.. I hope it helps one of you maybe.

edit: not trying to be a dick, btw. just interested, because it reads like lots has changed. and perhaps not for the etter either. although i'm not the one to make assumptions like that...

Edited January 2, 2015 by goDel

[Guest fiznuthian]

It's fine. Nothing much has changed really. I eat very much the same with the addition of some rice occasionally and soaked/sprouted bread. I eat a really large variety of vegetables and fruit, eggs, meat, some potato, some yogurt and quality cheese. Introducing poor quality manufactured foods still messes with my head. Highly refined stuff gives me cravings for more (once you pop, you can't stop right?) and if I continue I still get moody and lethargic. Eating fresh "whole" food or whatever keeps me relatively normoglycemic and my intestinal tract fares 10x better.

 

I understand a lot more now about why shit food affects mental health. It's clear that the engineered flavor often found in manufactured food is not something easily approximated by simple home cooking with fresh ingredients. Not that it's better food than someone can make with culinary skill, but manufactured food often has a highly calculated energy density, fat/sugar ratios, saltiness, texture, color, etc.. The multinational food corps spent lots of money calculating what is necessary to achieve such abnormal palatability. The industry term was "bliss point" for the ratios that induced most powerful neural responses. That people rarely if ever emotional eat on a plate full of broccoli should tell you something about processed food and it's dopaminergic magic. A box of donuts or a large, hot pizza to help soothe the pain. :)

 

There's more evidence now that gut microbes interact with our central nervous system through the conveniently located enteric nervous system. It's very likely that the microbes we host are modulating our own emotional states. To what extent isn't very clear. I take the cautious approach and just avoid unnecessary consumption of refined sugars (this also includes flours) and instead treat vegetables/fruit like a substrate to attract bacterial/fungal colonies. The intestinal microbiota are in constant flux and what lives there is in large part determined by what we eat regularly.

 

So that's where I stand.. Eating good for whatever reason keeps me a lot more sane than when I don't. There might be some in between that works just as well. Despite all of this I appear to be having neurological problems now. I've had a giant list of labwork done on both my blood and urine, and I must not be doing too awful because every result comes back as perfect as they should be. It's a long list too..

 

It's 2015 now and i've spent many years attempting to "cure" my treatment resistant acne that started when I was a young kid. Maybe 2 years of accutane was toxic enough to damage something in my CNS. I don't know. Diet helps my mental stability but I can safely say after years of trying different variations it does fuck all to stop the constant growth of cysts, papules, and pustules. Some people will say "just get over it" but it's not that easy.. My mind has turned into a giant labrynth of self delusions and fears. My social life suffers greatly even still, though i'm a lot better than I used to be.

 

Diet should be important to most people, but it's not a panacea. You can do everything right and your fragile body still might fail you for unforeseen reasons. I'm trying not to be scared by what i'm feeling now but my nervous system is behaving very abnormally and I keep swinging wildly into depressive states because it's slowly getting worse. I'm not sure if i'm suicidal necesarily, but I do think about suicide multiple times per day. What it will feel like, how much suffering I have to go through, what means, etc.. I do this because I am constantly aware that being alive is temporary. I'm rather okay with being dead but my nervous system feels like a barrier actively preventing me from getting there easily. I think it's rational to want to be dead if life no longer has anything to offer. So I keep a mental graph of sorts to track when it would be rational to pre-emptively end my own life on my own terms. I'd rather not end up 80 years old and bed ridden while on opiates all day. That said, I am far from that point and wish to continue experiencing what I can. I'd like a functional relationship and good friends. It's hard and so I eat good, I exercise when I can, I learn about things, and just wait...

[MadameChaos]

i have a friend who had recurrent issues with acne, when she read up on it there was a lot of literature suggesting that dairy could be a trigger.

 

after having tried literally everything else she thought she would give it a try and stopped eating cow dairy (but continued goats milk etc)

 

magically the issue cleared up. http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/02/11/do-milk-and-sugar-cause-acne/

[Guest fiznuthian]

i have a friend who had recurrent issues with acne, when she read up on it there was a lot of literature suggesting that dairy could be a trigger.

 

after having tried literally everything else she thought she would give it a try and stopped eating cow dairy (but continued goats milk etc)

 

magically the issue cleared up. http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/02/11/do-milk-and-sugar-cause-acne/

 

doesn't help me unfortunately. thanks though

[Guest]

I feel depressed during the winter months. I take St. John's Wort and Vitamin D to battle it and it works pretty well. Exercising helps a lot too.

 

Weed DOES NOT HELP AT ALL. Only makes it worse

[kakapo]

Depression is as much a political illness as a mental one.

[Guest HokusPoker]

 

i have a friend who had recurrent issues with acne, when she read up on it there was a lot of literature suggesting that dairy could be a trigger.

 

after having tried literally everything else she thought she would give it a try and stopped eating cow dairy (but continued goats milk etc)

 

magically the issue cleared up. http://drhyman.com/blog/2011/02/11/do-milk-and-sugar-cause-acne/

 

doesn't help me unfortunately. thanks though

 

 

Let's go further: leave all the animal crap out.

 

Check out these two videos:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/a-better-way-to-boost-serotonin/

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-best-way-to-boost-serotonin/

[Guest HokusPoker]

And these two:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/plant-based-diet-mood/

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/improving-mood-through-diet/

 

Sorry for double-posting, I couldn't edit my post anymore.

Edited January 3, 2015 by HokusPoker

[Guest fiznuthian]

I'm sorry HokusPoker, and please don't take this as an insult to you, but from where I stand that website is very strong vegan propoganda. Dr. Greger spends most of his days hunting for evidence to support his theory that meat alone is the cause of human diseases. While his fervor is impressive and by all means his message should (in theory) be helpful to a lot of people, I can't trust his analysis of research because of the likelihood of confirmation bias.

 

While I agree it would be ethical to reduce if not eliminate our consumption of animals, I am not convinced that vegan is a cure-all for the diseases humans are developing today. That said, there is some good in the idea. It seems to motivate people to transition from manufactured/processed acellular junk food to a diet primarily of self-prepared fresh farm food. People in the pursuit of a well rounded vegan diet often find themselves consuming less calories than they would otherwise on their typical buffet of boxed/bagged frankenshit TV dinners, microwavables, fast food, etc.. Energy restriction has a notable effect on both genetic expression and metabolic state.

The vegan diet is interesting, but tread carefully and avoid dogma. my 2 cents..

[Guest HokusPoker]

We shouldn't derail this thread, so just a quick response: you didn't address anything he shows in these videos. I never said going vegan is the cure for everything, that's a rather poor counter-argument. He does not conduct his own secret studies or sells whatever he claims is healthy and always cites all his references so calling it propaganda and dogma is a bit strange. Energy restriction is a stupid idea and the positive effects that can be found when restricting calories are related to lower protein intake and more specifically to lower intake of a certain amino acid whose name I don't remember which is primarily found in meat. There's a video on Nutrition Facts on that as well citing studies that found that but you probably would choose to ignore that as well. On the contrary, one of the most helpful advice for people going vegan is to make sure they eat enough as many are used to a too small volume of their food.

 

I don't care if you don't want to try it, I'm used to that, but unless you find studies that find a correlation between good mood and meat intake, it's unscientific and pure dogma to just write it off as propaganda.

[Guest fiznuthian]

Oh yeah, another 2 cents..

I know a fair bit or can talk a talk guess, but you have every reason to ignore everything I say regarding nutrition and health because obviously I fucked up somewhere. Either my own doing, or some unforeseen circumstance I don't know.. neurological problems regardless.

It is propoganda.. Are you blind?

Edited January 3, 2015 by fiznuthian

[Hugh Mughnus]

I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful.

 

 

I'm reading some scholarly articles now that seem to say high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects (ketogenic diets have been used for decades to treat epilepsy btw).

 

Found this one interesting:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

Edited January 3, 2015 by StephenG

[Guest fiznuthian]

I surrender. Sorry for being a prick Hokus.

[chenGOD]

I like meat and plants both, oh what a pickle.

 

edit: oh and seafood and fungi!!

 

edit: and some insects!!!

[Hugh Mughnus]

I like meat and plants both, oh what a pickle.

 

edit: oh and seafood and fungi!!

 

edit: and some insects!!!

 

 

Which insects do you like? I've eaten a few and wasn't really a fan.

 

I ate a big moth once and it tasted quite a bit like watermelon which was nice, but the texture was gross. Kind of like aloe vera (slimy and squishy).

[chenGOD]

fried crickets and grasshopper.

Delicious.

 

Do not, under any circumstances, eat the boiled silkworm pupae they serve up in Korea. That shit is vile.

 

I think I would enjoy watermelon moth!

[goDel]

Fiz, sorry to hear about your condition.

 

About eating crickets: i'm afraid it's the future. In 10 years we'll all be eating them... Regularly . :/

Ogawd, where will the world be in 10 years...

( happy newyear everyone...)

[Guest isaki]

does anyone else sometimes feel like they're dying a bit faster than usual? like put me out of this misery plz :)

[gmanyo]

does anyone else sometimes feel like they're dying a bit faster than usual? like put me out of this misery plz :)

Sort of I guess. What do you mean by "put me out of this misery"?

[Guest isaki]

i only mean it's not a good feeling, I'm OK :)

[Candiru]

I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful.

 

 

I'm reading some scholarly articles now that seem to say high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects (ketogenic diets have been used for decades to treat epilepsy btw).

 

Found this one interesting:

 

http://mwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

I'm ketoing right now and I've never felt better. I'm happy, handle stressful situations more easily, and it finally feels possible to get into the kind of shape I want to be in. It could be so much easier for people to look good...Check out the reddit page.

[Guest HokusPoker]

Oh yeah, another 2 cents..

 

I know a fair bit or can talk a talk guess, but you have every reason to ignore everything I say regarding nutrition and health because obviously I fucked up somewhere. Either my own doing, or some unforeseen circumstance I don't know.. neurological problems regardless.

 

It is propoganda.. Are you blind?

 

Jesus, fiznuthian… How can I even try to ignore what you're saying regarding nutrition when you don't say anything except for that vegans are stupid? All you say: NANANANA, PROPAGANDA, NANANA.

In your own best interest: try to broaden your mind, it's never wrong. I was sincerely trying to help you. If that's how you react to all advice that sounds stupid to your ears, your recovery may just take way longer than it needs to.

 

I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful.

 

 

I'm reading some scholarly articles now that seem to say high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects (ketogenic diets have been used for decades to treat epilepsy btw).

 

Found this one interesting:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

 

Well, we're in a thread about depression and you're saying a ketogenic diet is actually a great thing because it can be used to treat… epilepsy? Hm.

 

“ […] to mimic the biochemical changes associated with periods of limited food availability”. Do you want to keep your body in a state of starving until the end of your days?

“In the absence of glucose, the preferred source of energy (particularly of the brain) […]”. Your body is built to use A, so let's give it B. Forever.

 

I don't find it that surprising that such a massive intervention will produce SOME positive effects, but (a) high fat intake is associated with a HUGE number of other diseases and (b) it's got nothing to do with this thread's topic.

 

Let's get back on topic. People who want to see what positive effects a vegan diet might have have something to look at in this thread, and people who are not convinced (and want to treat epilepsy) have also something to look at in this thread.

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

Oh yeah, another 2 cents..

 

I know a fair bit or can talk a talk guess, but you have every reason to ignore everything I say regarding nutrition and health because obviously I fucked up somewhere. Either my own doing, or some unforeseen circumstance I don't know.. neurological problems regardless.

 

It is propoganda.. Are you blind?

 

Jesus, fiznuthian… How can I even try to ignore what you're saying regarding nutrition when you don't say anything except for that vegans are stupid? All you say: NANANANA, PROPAGANDA, NANANA.

In your own best interest: try to broaden your mind, it's never wrong. I was sincerely trying to help you. If that's how you react to all advice that sounds stupid to your ears, your recovery may just take way longer than it needs to.

 

I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful.

 

 

I'm reading some scholarly articles now that seem to say high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects (ketogenic diets have been used for decades to treat epilepsy btw).

 

Found this one interesting:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

 

Well, we're in a thread about depression and you're saying a ketogenic diet is actually a great thing because it can be used to treat… epilepsy? Hm.

 

“ […] to mimic the biochemical changes associated with periods of limited food availability”. Do you want to keep your body in a state of starving until the end of your days?

“In the absence of glucose, the preferred source of energy (particularly of the brain) […]”. Your body is built to use A, so let's give it B. Forever.

 

I don't find it that surprising that such a massive intervention will produce SOME positive effects, but (a) high fat intake is associated with a HUGE number of other diseases and (b) it's got nothing to do with this thread's topic.

 

Let's get back on topic. People who want to see what positive effects a vegan diet might have have something to look at in this thread, and people who are not convinced (and want to treat epilepsy) have also something to look at in this thread.

 

Here I will give you a hand, hopefully this helps. Emphasis on how wonderful my non-inflamed brain feels.

 

 

"I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful."

 

Also "high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects "

 

 

Bring your vegan propaganda elsewhere. You're depressing me with it.

 

Vegan might be a viable option for some people. There is no broad solution to absolutely everyone's problem. But at least bring credible sources (as those links you have posted are not...). And read people's posts before responding to them.

 

Maybe you're having a hard time reading though because you're lacking in carnosine which is only found in animal proteins. Lacking this leads to premature degradation of eyesight. Or maybe it's the b12 you're lacking.

 

I have found my anxiety to markedly decrease to the point where I need no medication and even drink less alcohol (which I use when I get anxious) when I'm on a keto diet. So yes this is on topic even though you might not fully understand. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of studies on diet and interactions with mood disorders including depression.

 

 

 

 

I just ate some meat now (about 10oz of beef) and i feel wonderful.

 

 

I'm reading some scholarly articles now that seem to say high meat protein and high fat diets have neuroprotective and disease reducing effects (ketogenic diets have been used for decades to treat epilepsy btw).

 

Found this one interesting:

 

http://mwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

I'm ketoing right now and I've never felt better. I'm happy, handle stressful situations more easily, and it finally feels possible to get into the kind of shape I want to be in. It could be so much easier for people to look good...Check out the reddit page.

 

 

Glad it's working for you too! Once I cut out carbs (especially complex simple (whoops) carbs), I found I was far less anxious too. There are lots of studies on the interaction of carbs and mood disorders, on both sides of the fence tbh. But I find my mood is much better and anxiety way down on keto diets.

Edited January 3, 2015 by StephenG

[Guest isaki]

my sister had a panic attack for the first time ever. i dont know if its worse to have one myself or see your family in that state. jesus.