joshuatxuk Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I'm actually pretty stoked at this news. Empire strikes back was not directed by Lucas, it also had a screenplay written by someone else. I didn't realize that until about a year ago, and it illuminated the superiority of the writing of that film over A New Hope. I can always recall one-liners from Empire...whereas the only line from A New Hope I can ever remember is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Totally. Very deliberate. Besides using Third Reich aesthetics in the Empire's overall look and vibe Lucas is one of the few directors to actually admit being influenced from Leni Riefenstahl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 just no more jar jar disney, i mean, don't kid it down too much. The whole point of the original Star Wars movies was to sell merchandise to kids, why do people hate jar jar so much?, it was created with the same purpose as the original characters. Also Star Wars is a kid franchise, just because grown men like it doesn't change the fact. I think it was the fart jokes and the general plasticity of the character. Chewbacca was a badass, he had a soul, he was loveable, cool, unique. His sounds were authentic... everything about him is awesome, everyone can agree. Jar Jar is not awesome. You want to see him get beat up. It's fun to hate Jar Jar. It's fun to love puppet, soulful Yoda, and watch puppet, soulful Yoda goof around and pull stuff out of swamps with creative monsters swimming around while R2D2 glitches out. It's not fun to watch a fake 3D Yoda jump around the screen forgettably fighting one of many completely forgettable enemies. That war was pretty well done though. I haven't seen the prequels in a long time... I kind of expect that they would be better now. But thinking back, it's true. They were WAY more kiddie oriented. All the fun romantic interplay and sort of hard edged Nazi references were gone. The whole thing was a confusing, cartoonish mess. But that's fine. I still enjoyed watching every one of them, frankly. They're classics just by "force" of the originals alone. lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Well shit looks like Lucas is being genuine.. previously thought he donated half his charity, guess it was 3.2 billion or 99% of it. Now this? It is well known Lucas signed the Buffet pledge to donate 99% of his wealth to charity but previously he was "only" worth 3.3 billion. The fact he will also donate nearly all the 4 billion to educational charity efforts is great. Lucas for all the prequels and the like is a damn good human being: http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/...as-will-384947 Wow good on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't buy the idea that Phantom Menace is a bad film because it was made for kids. The best counter example to this is in the Henry Plinket review of Phantom where he shows how much boring dialogue happens in the film where the story just churns along with no suspense or tension and super imposes children sitting in front of the television. It is a seriously boring film for adults and for children. Sure i guess a kid would be entertained by the pod race scene and young Annakin blowing up the space station and maybe the jar-jar people battle but besides that the rest of the movie is not for kids or adults. It's made for a billionaire who has absolutely no idea how to make a proper film anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Phantom Menace is the best film because of how bad it is. Let me put it this way, you have an ounce of weed to smoke and three options. Episode 1, 2 or 3. For me, I always would pick 1 because it features Jar Jar who is hilariously dumb. The best light saber battle of the three. The kid is less annoying then the super emo/serious Anakin of 2/3. Samuel L Jackson doesn't get killed. Pod Race has dope sounds. And the plot is the least predictable because it is farther back from A New Hope. 3rd one was emotionally boring/predictable (no way Natalie Portman is gonna die!? and Darth Vadar gets burned?!?!, 2nd one was trying to be smart with the whole Obi Wan solving mysteries but then turned into some kind of joke, plus Yoda using a walking stick yet can jump around like a circus clown on crack?? I don't mind stupid new shit like Jar Jar, but destroying Yoda's dopeness by trying to make him some kind of midget ninja turtle was just unbearable. Lucas should have never done a prequel trilogy and instead made something akin to the Knights of the Old Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 the concept is flawed from the outset, Lucas said from the very beginning we will watch Annakin turn from a normal guy into a bad guy and get tempted by the dark side. That plot does not make an interesting film in and of itself, unless there is a lot of other interesting story elements supplementing that. And even after 3 films Lucas still doesn't manage to even flesh out the Annakin plot enough to make it even remotely followable. His monologue in Clone Wars while in the C3PO workshop is one of the worst written in the history of big budget film. The best reason Lucas can come up with for Annakin turning into Darth Vader is that he dreams of Padme dying in a dream and he believes Palpatine based on his word that he can cure dead people so he literally throws everything away for that? And to top it off he nearly kills her with a force choke when she finds him at the end of Sith. It is non sensical from a story perspective. I can't fucking believe how bad the prequels are, i am astonished even after all this time. And i still have no idea what the story of Phantom Menace is, why would the Trade Federation people continue to trust the mysterious man in the hood who set them up in Part 1? They appear in the other 2 prequels as well back on board with the whole 'master plan' which also makes no sense whatsoever. Palpatine wants to create an empire, for what? His motivation is barely explained. He's just evil for evil's sake in the most retarded way possible. Compson, if you want to smoke a bunch of weed and watch any of this stuff i highly recommend watching the Making of Phantom Menace. It's on par with Spinal Tap except it is a non intentional mockumentary. It's a beautiful film in it's own right because it's 90 minute of George Lucas continuously falling on his own sword with a black dude in a rubber Jar Jar suit that they didnt even end up using because adding in a cgi head was far more expensive than doing the whole character in cgi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 the concept is flawed from the outset, Lucas said from the very beginning we will watch Annakin turn from a normal guy into a bad guy and get tempted by the dark side. That plot does not make an interesting film in and of itself, unless there is a lot of other interesting story elements supplementing that. And even after 3 films Lucas still doesn't manage to even flesh out the Annakin plot enough to make it even remotely followable. His monologue in Clone Wars while in the C3PO workshop is one of the worst written in the history of big budget film. The best reason Lucas can come up with for Annakin turning into Darth Vader is that he dreams of Padme dying in a dream and he believes Palpatine based on his word that he can cure dead people so he literally throws everything away for that? And to top it off he nearly kills her with a force choke when she finds him at the end of Sith. It is non sensical from a story perspective. I can't fucking believe how bad the prequels are, i am astonished even after all this time. And i still have no idea what the story of Phantom Menace is, why would the Trade Federation people continue to trust the mysterious man in the hood who set them up in Part 1? They appear in the other 2 prequels as well back on board with the whole 'master plan' which also makes no sense whatsoever. Palpatine wants to create an empire, for what? His motivation is barely explained. He's just evil for evil's sake in the most retarded way possible. Yeah its pretty bad... tho Vadar's motivation in the originals isnt any more complex. Problem was Darth Vadar is way more likable than Anakin at any stage in his development. Had he been able to get someone like Harrison Ford to play the role and he then falls in a trap turning him to the dark side, we would at least feel sympathetic towards Vadar more... as he does redeem himself in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I've never figured out if count doku is really a bad guy or a good guy. I mean he's working with Palpatine, but somehow Palpatine wants him killed? He's secretely building an army for Palpatine to fight Palpatines own clone army? So Palpatine's staging a war, wasting his own armies and resources. WTF. WHAT IS THIS? WHYYYYYYYYYYY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 what i never understood about Doku setting up the clone army is what the fucking shit? I still don't understand it and i've seen Clone Wars like 3 times. Not to mention that clearly in the original trilogy the stormtroopers were NOT clones, they all had different voices acted with their own personalities but now we're supposed to believe they are clones? You can't retcon something that drastic into a beloved franchise. If Doku created the army, why would the republic use it then? Wouldn't they know it was designed for nefarious purposes. The plot in all 3 movies is an absolute mess, i still don't understand how George Lucas fucked it up so badly. I also feel like Lucas didn't know quite to do with the Sith either as a concept, in part 1 he made Darth Maul look like some kind of alien dude. Then as the films progressed it became clear that sith was not any type of race but it was simply a bad jedi. Well who the fuck are they? what is their history? and no im not going to let anybody refer to a novel or comic book to explain it to me. The star wars universe as far as im concerned is contained in the 6 movies. edit: In Jedi and Empire we assume either the Emperor is also some kind of alien or he's just really fucking old. You can only imagine my disappointment when in Revenge of the Sith he get's hit with lightning (just like Luke does in Jedi) and all of the sudden looks all wrinkled and old. I mean jesus christ George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Only explanation I can come up with is the Prequels and Anakin are George's critique on American culture today. He took one of the coolest motherfuckers in film and made him into a twat that power hungry people are. That and the Palpatine/Republic is a critique on Christianity/Catholics/Republicans. And that we see foreigners as silly and weak (jar jar). Also the military functions by using mindless clones. Also George has showcased how even when something is shit, with marketing/advertising it still makes a shit ton of $$$. Either Lucas is some kind of meta-artist or he is really really fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 i just don't think you can be worth 7 billion dollars and remain a normal human being with the ability to channel creativity in a way that isn't motivated purely by profit. Maybe some will disagree with that but can you name any other 'artist' who is worth close to that much who has quality output? I cannot. Maybe it's a meta commentary about himself, how over time he lost touch with everything including his own humanity, which is why everything in the trilogies seems stiff, phoned in and just boring on the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Well shit looks like Lucas is being genuine.. previously thought he donated half his charity, guess it was 3.2 billion or 99% of it. Now this? It is well known Lucas signed the Buffet pledge to donate 99% of his wealth to charity but previously he was "only" worth 3.3 billion. The fact he will also donate nearly all the 4 billion to educational charity efforts is great. Lucas for all the prequels and the like is a damn good human being: http://m.hollywoodre....as-will-384947 Wow good on him. Yup. It almost makes up for the prequels... almost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I wonder if George had a George Constanza moment (Jason Alexander) where he grew to despise the amount of praise and obsession people had for him over this one thing. Eventually he couldn't handle it anymore and decides to destroy it by remixing the originals with terrible CG and later releasing the prequels. Milking as much money as possible from dimwit consumers and gives the money to charities/education that will make a positive difference (like a modern day Robin Hood)? I mean think about how maddening it would be to have people approach you with Star Wars references all the time. He should have done other films to give him more of an identity away from it, but perhaps he realized he didnt have it in him to make something truly significant so instead tried to just make something for financial stability but ended up biting off more than he could chew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 If Doku created the army, why would the republic use it then? Wouldn't they know it was designed for nefarious purposes. Dooku didn't create the army, the Kamionans created the army after Sifo-Dyas requested it. Dooku provided Jango Fett as a template, and he was secretly involved only to the knowledge of Sidious/Palpatine. Dooku was a good Jedi in the beginning, he switched and killed Sifo-Dyas out of nowhere (as Darth Tyranus). The republic used it because they wanted the military power. I also feel like Lucas didn't know quite to do with the Sith either as a concept, in part 1 he made Darth Maul look like some kind of alien dude. Then as the films progressed it became clear that sith was not any type of race but it was simply a bad jedi. Well who the fuck are they? what is their history? and no im not going to let anybody refer to a novel or comic book to explain it to me. The star wars universe as far as im concerned is contained in the 6 movies. While Lucas refuses to acknowledge the expanded universe, he has borrowed and stolen heartily from it, so it would be difficult to answer your questions without referring to it. With that said, it is clear in the original trilogy that anyone can become a Sith by being lured to the dark side, as Luke risks doing towards the end of ROTJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 just no more jar jar disney, i mean, don't kid it down too much. The whole point of the original Star Wars movies was to sell merchandise to kids, why do people hate jar jar so much?, it was created with the same purpose as the original characters. Also Star Wars is a kid franchise, just because grown men like it doesn't change the fact. The original movie was not created to sell merchandise - Lucas just had good luck in requesting he get half the merchandising rights, and when it was a huge success, he saw the fortune in his serendipitous decision. what i never understood about Doku setting up the clone army is what the fucking shit? I still don't understand it and i've seen Clone Wars like 3 times. Not to mention that clearly in the original trilogy the stormtroopers were NOT clones, they all had different voices acted with their own personalities but now we're supposed to believe they are clones? You can't retcon something that drastic into a beloved franchise. If Doku created the army, why would the republic use it then? Wouldn't they know it was designed for nefarious purposes. The plot in all 3 movies is an absolute mess, i still don't understand how George Lucas fucked it up so badly. I also feel like Lucas didn't know quite to do with the Sith either as a concept, in part 1 he made Darth Maul look like some kind of alien dude. Then as the films progressed it became clear that sith was not any type of race but it was simply a bad jedi. Well who the fuck are they? what is their history? and no im not going to let anybody refer to a novel or comic book to explain it to me. The star wars universe as far as im concerned is contained in the 6 movies. edit: In Jedi and Empire we assume either the Emperor is also some kind of alien or he's just really fucking old. You can only imagine my disappointment when in Revenge of the Sith he get's hit with lightning (just like Luke does in Jedi) and all of the sudden looks all wrinkled and old. I mean jesus christ George I guess you haven't paid attention to George's tinkering with the original trilogy - he made all the Stormtrooper voices in episodes IV-VI match Jango Fett/prequel Clone Troopers. Dooku, who was being influenced by Sidious, in turn used Sifo-Dyas (which was never really explained that well, IMO) to get the cloners on Kamino to create the clone army for the Republic - once Sifo-Dyas (a respected member of the Jedi Council) served his purpose, Dooku killed him so he wouldn't mention any of it - here's the thing though - WHY would a member of the Jedi Council go and do something unilateral like that, without consulting the Council beforehand? Very poor, and convoluted plot device. He could have made Dooku pretend to act on the behalf of the council (hell, he was a respected Jedi at one point), rather than throw in this Jedi Council member nobody ever sees or gets mentioned after the fact. I don't see why Darth Maul being an alien had anything to do with him being a Sith; the Star Wars universe has always had many races (Yoda is a Jedi and not a humanoid, so why couldn't Maul be a Sith and not be human?). Episode II clearly shows that the Sith can be any race, as Dooku, once a Jedi, turns to the Dark Side and becomes a Sith. There's your in-movie explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 edit: In Jedi and Empire we assume either the Emperor is also some kind of alien or he's just really fucking old. You can only imagine my disappointment when in Revenge of the Sith he get's hit with lightning (just like Luke does in Jedi) and all of the sudden looks all wrinkled and old. I mean jesus christ George dude, you're dead on, the Emperor's whole mystique really took a nosedive for me in the prequels, his first unaltered appearance is creepy as fuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKtciRCVpFE I'm also with you dismissing the "Phantom Menace is for kids" criticism, though I'm arguably a case in point since I was a kid when they came out. But I don't think that makes them bad. I'm actually really on the fence on my overall opinion of the prequels because I was quite excited when they came out and, in general, I enjoyed watching them in theaters. I haven't and probably never will buy them on DVD (who needs too when Spike TV runs them almost 24/7) In fact, for all the talk of nostalgia about the originals I cannot deny a certain nostalgia for the prequels. Seriously, I'm not trolling. I was 13 when Phantom came out. I was already an avid fan of Star Wars. I had my dad's old action figures then collected Kenner action figures and micromachines in the mid-90s. I played many of the PC games - Rebel Assault X-Wing series, Dark Forces. I began reading Dark Horse EU comics and vividly remember the Shadows of the Empire series and was a huge fan. So not only was I interested in the prequels but I had expectations that were very much in line with the movie once it came out. I didn't have any reasons for disappointment, let alone resentment, at the prequels. I've found the prequels in retrospect mediocre mostly because of the writing, as others have pointed out, as well as the overall aesthetics. Part of it can be excused by the simple fact that early 2000s versus early 80s film quality is different and CGI just isn't the same, but I still feel like the overall designs were often messy and confused. There's an interview where Chris Cunningham says the original trilogy looks better and always will because of the stark use of color versus black and white. The Empire's pristine and lifeless technology versus the battered and weathered equipment of the Rebels. Likewise, there are far more vast and barren landscapes and greater use of space (literally) in the original series, whereas in the prequels you have dozens of things going on in most shots. There are great scenes here and there - I loved seeing Coruscant realized with choatic CGI, especially in the vast landscape shots, and the design of the Camino planet (the clone factories) was neat but the loveliest scenes in Attack of the Clones were just shots of Lake Tahoe and parts of Italy. And the coloring and design is often just unremarkable. Hell, I can't close my eyes and recall any of the Trade Federation or Separatist vehicles or droids - just not as iconic. I guess my point is that while the prequels are objectively not as good as the original trilogy it's not a night and day comparison. I think a lot of hype on how terrible the prequels are has clouded a lot of older fans from admitting they like parts of it. Maybe that's just an attitude I find among certain peers, I actually don't know. But I have to admit the whole "let's bash Jar-Jar and the prequels because they are so hilariously awful" thing gets kinda lame after awhile. I won't deny when I was a teenager I was genuinely excited when the prequels came out. And I played the hell out of the N64 podracing game - though the terrible voice parts of the Jake Lloyd kid in that game still haunt me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Plinket really explains why the new movies suck when he says that In the old movies, the characters would demonstrate their friendship on screen in the way they act. Luke and Han Solo developed a relationship over the course of the films that made you like them, and care about them. You believed in their relationship and felt scared of Darth Vader. In the new movies, the relationships between the characters are so monotone and devoid of soul and passion... it's seriously as if George Lucas instructed the actors to give as flat and stiff a performance as possible. No excitement, no hugging. Plinket shows a clip from the old film where Luke and Han Solo meet up or something... and they start hugging and giving eachother nuggies. Then you see the new movie, and realize you care about none of the stiff, lifeless characters. It really does come down to that. Had the characters been there, you might have had a movie. Unfortunately they're all 100% forgettable, with no distinguishing characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 In fact, for all the talk of nostalgia about the originals I cannot deny a certain nostalgia for the prequels. Seriously, I'm not trolling. I was 13 when Phantom came out. I was already an avid fan of Star Wars. I had my dad's old action figures then collected Kenner action figures and micromachines in the mid-90s. I played many of the PC games - Rebel Assault X-Wing series, Dark Forces. I began reading Dark Horse EU comics and vividly remember the Shadows of the Empire series and was a huge fan. So not only was I interested in the prequels but I had expectations that were very much in line with the movie once it came out. I didn't have any reasons for disappointment, let alone resentment, at the prequels. I can agree with this. As a kid I didn't quite understand why people hated the movies. They were pretty exciting for me, and inspired my friends and I to buy some toys and have fun. I mean, we didn't like Jar Jar, probably because our parents wouldn't let us. I will say that as a kid, I did get BORED during some of them, which is not something that ever happened in the originals, except maybe the "yoda training" sequence in Empire. Growing up though, there is little disputing that the Prequels are basically soulless and unwatchable. EDIT: But like I said, I still have a soft spot in my heart for them, because they were pretty cool. The Pod Race sequence is a classic in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Plinket really explains why the new movies suck when he says that In the old movies, the characters would demonstrate their friendship on screen in the way they act. Luke and Han Solo developed a relationship over the course of the films that made you like them, and care about them. You believed in their relationship and felt scared of Darth Vader. In the new movies, the relationships between the characters are so monotone and devoid of soul and passion... it's seriously as if George Lucas instructed the actors to give as flat and stiff a performance as possible. No excitement, no hugging. Plinket shows a clip from the old film where Luke and Han Solo meet up or something... and they start hugging and giving eachother nuggies. Then you see the new movie, and realize you care about none of the stiff, lifeless characters. It really does come down to that. Had the characters been there, you might have had a movie. Unfortunately they're all 100% forgettable, with no distinguishing characteristics. i've felt this way all along. the above communicates my feelings about the films exactly. lucas should have done what was necessary to rally his wounded cast when he set out the first time (1997?), to then go forward from where the films had left off before constructing prequels. there is still the chance to heal a portion of the damages that has been done but i have serious doubts they will all work this out properly. maybe. one can hope (a new hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 this video sums it up the whole thing really well. it's honestly really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1MqksXm6Zs Damn, he's spot on in the first 30 seconds of this. I felt the same way about Matrix: Revolutions. I'm going to watch the whole thing later, these are really entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 not sure this was posted here already the notion of Episode 7 excites me no matter what. I mean, fact is, it was fun seeing the prequels, even if they ended up being nowhere near the classic status of the originals. I'm feeling a pulsation of hype. It might be the coffee. I just hope they don't make it until after the singularity, or second Enlightenment. we need to take star wars out of their grubby little paws and put it into the hands of people who actually give a fuck. down with Hollywood soulless motherfuckers. Honestly I think Harrison Ford should direct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 People need to get over the preconception that Disney = animated kiddy movies. Pirates of the Caribbean 1, The Avengers, both great films. It's ridiculous to think they won't treat Star Wars with respect and make it animated or whatever. Disney is a production company. They don't make movies, they get movies made. Disney could hire Joss Whedon, David Fincher, Christopher Nolan for all we know to create a seventh Star Wars movie. Don't lose hope guys, they can't be worse than the prequels. What scares and really saddens me is that this is the kind of thinking these execs are probably doing... and people actually feel this way. People actually feel this way but they don't REALLY understand why the movies they're getting are shit, forgettable, anti-classic, anti-art, anti-film, anti-cinema, anti-meaning, anti-joy, anti-heart, anti-soul. The world has changed in the last 30 years. For the worse. There is basically a 0% chance that anything coming out of this studio will live up to the old movies. It just can't happen. I'm not sure why. Seems like making "good art" has been outlawed. It just isn't profitable to make something cool. YOU KNOW WHO actually should direct the new star wars?!??!!?!? A. REFN B. the person who did the recent Judge DREDD movie Seriously. Think about it. THAT'S what's needed. None of these big cock artless soulless anti-nostalgia moneyhound cash-garglers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lopez Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 at least we'll get three more plinkett reviews out of it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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