geosmina Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I'll put this extremely simple: I'm actually interested in software engineering (programming). But, like all engineerings, I need to know and understand a shit ton of math and alikes. I'm not dumb, but I really, really hate math, and all other sicenes like that. It's not because I'm stupid or something, it's because I just simply can't understand it and I'm somehow lazy to do it.. At school, my fucking teacher just tells us about how to do it, but I bet it would be so fucking easier if he actually makes us understand why certain process can solve a certain problem. Actually, the only reason why I have good grades in math is because I memorize the process to solve something... But what about the theory, why the fuck sin/cos=tan? Also, I'm shit at making exact calculations. Now the 2º part of this, my thread: Something I'm really good at is being creative and innovating, at least at my school. Really, I even amaze myself. It's not that I'm a genius or whatever, but I do have good ideas when it comes to creating artsy fartsy stuff. Some of my interests are animation and music/soundesign. And since creating doesn't involve innecessary skill or calculations, I can do it ver well :) (everyone can, though, but I don't understand why they don't do it). So yeah. Righ now I'm sticking with programming because it's like pretty fun and I can create some cool stuff (dunno, videogames, vst, multimedia stuff AntiVJ style, etc.) But do I really need to learn absolutely all the fucking formulas in math? A teacher I know has a book with like 60,000 formulas, no kidding! Also, the reason why I'm rethinking about this is 'cause I think knowing "contacts" is essential. I would prefer to know a magician of animation or sound design alchemist, rather than a C guru or math god. In short terms, I'm pretty lazy to learn and understand (which I think is more important) math. I'm better designing stuff rather than calculating it. What should I do? My hero is this guy. I want to be like Thomas Kuntz. I want to have like that lifestyle but in my own interests! Haxantrorobotics look quite nice, though: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Ooze Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 said bumba the clown on crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 windows internet explorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geosmina Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 should I stick with soft. eng. despite all the math and stuff (well, I don't enjoy them, but it's necessary), or should I do more designing or theorical stuff, not that practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest petr Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 clown it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke viia Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Look into processing and don't give up on math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ego Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Software engineers are expected to have a strong math background. But you don't have to be an engineer to program. There are a lot of fields like 3D graphics or signal processing in which stuff like discrete math, calculus, linear algebra, quaternions and so on will be of great importance. But a large part of programming jobs don't require any of that and you can rely on libraries and frameworks to do your heavy lifting while you focus on what you want to do. I'm a lazy programmer with shitty math intuition and I can get by without a problem. But yeah don't give up on math. Chances are you're going to have to dig in to some math field sooner or later to solve a problem. It is hard but math can be really beautiful and fun once it starts clicking. I'm doing OpenGL stuff in my spare time these days and this linear algebra stuff is like magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geosmina Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Look into processing and don't give up on math. looks quite neat! thanks! Software engineers are expected to have a strong math background. But you don't have to be an engineer to program. There are a lot of fields like 3D graphics or signal processing in which stuff like discrete math, calculus, linear algebra, quaternions and so on will be of great importance. But a large part of programming jobs don't require any of that and you can rely on libraries and frameworks to do your heavy lifting while you focus on what you want to do. I'm a lazy programmer with shitty math intuition and I can get by without a problem. But yeah don't give up on math. Chances are you're going to have to dig in to some math field sooner or later to solve a problem. It is hard but math can be really beautiful and fun once it starts clicking. I'm doing OpenGL stuff in my spare time these days and this linear algebra stuff is like magic. I understand. But, I'm going to be pretty direct here: I really really really see myself writing for animated movies or something like that, but I'm really interested in programming... Can I do both? Sorry if the question is stupid, but that's the issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ego Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 If you enjoy programming I don't see why you couldn't? My angle on it may be skewed but programming really isn't that difficult. It's not an inaccessible field at all. There are tons of free online learning resources and a lot of open-source software you can just read and use. There is fun and work to be found for pretty much all skill levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zkreso Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Actually, the only reason why I have good grades in math is because I memorize the process to solve something... But what about the theory, why the fuck sin/cos=tan? Didn't your teacher in high school show you the unit circle when first introducing sin, cos and tan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zkom Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 There's lots of fields in programming that don't require that much math. At my local uni they teach very little math if you take the MSc program in information processing, only one or two courses. On the other hand if you take the computer science and engineering MSc program then there's a shitload of math and electronics. The information processing guys usually go for things like user interface design, database and server development, game development, web design, etc. The engineering guys go to embedded systems, medical technology, computer vision, industrial process automation, etc. I graduated from the engineering side myself but I know a bunch of people who graduated from the information processing. Most of them are in software development and some are in research and server/database maintenance. The key to learning math for me is to understand why the equations are like they are, not to memorize them. Why tan=sin/cos is to me rather obvious. tan is just the slope that you get from the ratio of the rise along y-axis (sin) divided by the movement along x-axis (cos) so you get tan=sin/cos. So by remembering that the tan is the slope for a given angle I can come up with the equation easily. I just picture the situation in my head geometrically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlobkob Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 understanding trigonometric functions is really easy when you learned about the complex plane. if you want to study anything technical, there is now way you can avoid maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 How about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spratters Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 With most programming and software development I think it's almost a certainty that you'll need good maths skills at some stage. Depends which route you take I suppose. It may be better for you to try and learn it more on your own if you're not getting on with classes of it. It's all stuff that's set and doesn't change so it should all be available for free online. MIT etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneToThirtySix Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Is John Lasseter hiring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Professional BoC Mystery solver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zkom Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yes, knowing mathematics will certainly help in SW development but it's not absolutely necessary in every type of programming. I know lots of programmers that are pretty bad at mathematics. If you're doing stuff like UI frontends for SW I don't know why you would need anything more than basic arithmetic and logic skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 First thought: gigolo Second: think about big data. Data mining involves a lot less and a lot more math at the same time. You could program your way out of math with a smart algorithm, and you should be able to interpret what's in your data and what comes out of your algorithms. And the math part is being taken care off by all those smart free data mining tools. Big data is the future, my friend. *twinkly smile* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geosmina Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yes, knowing mathematics will certainly help in SW development but it's not absolutely necessary in every type of programming. I know lots of programmers that are pretty bad at mathematics. If you're doing stuff like UI frontends for SW I don't know why you would need anything more than basic arithmetic and logic skills. I'm pretty good in algebra. But what fucks me is calculus and shit, and the application of it. I'm too lazy to learn all the formulas and methods, and I'm not that smart (or really impatient) to use it irl problems. Like I already said, I'm actually just going to SW because I just want to code in stuff like MAX/MSP, Pure Data, Arduino, Processing etc. I'm open to Java and C or whatever the apps use today, though. But I'm fearing I would lose valuable time to meet important people in the jobs I actually would like to work (sound design department, writing team, or whatever creative), or learning stuff I actually love and I'm good. Also, I'm more an "art guy" rather than a "technical guy". What do you suggest me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ego Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 You sound pretty young. There is no easy road to mastering something challenging. Either drop the defeatist attitude that hard work is not for you or adjust your ambitions. Nothing comes for free. Processing is pretty hands on but "MAX/MSP, Pure Data and Arduino" as well as a lot of other interesting programming fields require a lot of investment to get "actual" value out of it. You'll need to enjoy the process of slowly working through (often very small) pieces of the solution. Set realistic objectives and work towards them. You will have to adjust or even scrap objectives because you're young and overambitious (as was I, many many times) but everybody is slow and shit at first. Every project is a lesson in modesty for me. I never could have imagined how hard all this shit is, but at the same time it does get easier and I do want to figure it all out so maybe one day I can do what I aspire to do. Most of all I enjoy the process of slowly making my way through things I previously didn't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I've been using Unity to learn how to program in C#. It's pretty neat. http://unity3d.com/unity/ I've also been looking at stuff on Python and various other things I come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zkom Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Yes, knowing mathematics will certainly help in SW development but it's not absolutely necessary in every type of programming. I know lots of programmers that are pretty bad at mathematics. If you're doing stuff like UI frontends for SW I don't know why you would need anything more than basic arithmetic and logic skills. I'm pretty good in algebra. But what fucks me is calculus and shit, and the application of it. I'm too lazy to learn all the formulas and methods, and I'm not that smart (or really impatient) to use it irl problems. Like I already said, I'm actually just going to SW because I just want to code in stuff like MAX/MSP, Pure Data, Arduino, Processing etc. I'm open to Java and C or whatever the apps use today, though. But I'm fearing I would lose valuable time to meet important people in the jobs I actually would like to work (sound design department, writing team, or whatever creative), or learning stuff I actually love and I'm good. Also, I'm more an "art guy" rather than a "technical guy". What do you suggest me? Welp, I'm a technical guy, and I don't know that particular field so well, because I'm in a more of an engineer job but I think it was already said in the audio programming thread that most programmers learn things by doing them and not by trying to study the subject from a book/lecture/whatever. I'd just suggest that you start some small project and try to implement it. Even if it goes down the toilet it is still experience on what to do and what not to. Probably later when you have some more experience set up a public or open project or join one, that way you can meet new people also. That's the way everybody I know who are programmers have done it. Some people failed 90% of their personal projects because they were too ambitious but learned a ton in the process. Also I don't know how it's in other places but I've been in recruiting process for trainees and we don't dismiss people from the trainee positions because lack of work experience and we don't look into grades that much, but if the applicant has only ever done the mandatory school projects then it's a huge red flag. You got to show that you have some enthusiasm for the subject and some skill even if you lack the actual software business experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 at the college i went to there was a math lab where people go to struggle with math and there are student experts there to explain things. there are reasons for why sin/cos=tan and everything in math, but alot of times the teachers or book authors suck at explaining it (maybe because they themselves don't undestand why it's true, just that it is), in which case what's needed is someone else to explain it in a different way. the internet has lots of helpful sites that explain things in different ways. wikipedia probably covers most of math, definitely the more common levels. if you want to write scripts, then write scripts. a script consists of less than a hundred sparsely filled pages. i keep lists of scifi ideas, comedy script ideas, plot device ideas, character ideas, etc as they occur to me, so when i feel like making a script i'm not like "fuck i had a dozen great ideas, what were they?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest unteleportedman Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Instrumentation and Control Technologies/Electrical Engineering (Associates in Applied Sciences). This is what I am doing and it only requires math up to and not including Calculus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Quit bitchin and do the maths. If you really wanted to do it, you wouldn't be too lazy to learn the maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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