joshuatxuk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Have you renounced them all in favor of agnostic atheism yet? I'm irreligious but not quite "agnostic atheist." I have to admit despite the often illogical and irrational basis, I sill feel a spiritual connection to things. I will always seek out knowledge, happiness, and fulfilling my potential as an individual in a positive and creative way. Sounds cheesy but that's how I feel. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In b4 lock Also: Have you renounced them all in favor of agnostic atheism yet? nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Haven't renounced anything, agnostic atheism has always been my default position, even before I knew what it was called. Ditto. Although, I am still learning and practising Buddhist teachings. I don't understand how that's classed as religion though, more a self help technique if anything. That's a very Western way of looking at Buddhism. If you stripped all the superfluous things from Christianity and Islam, you would also get something like a self-help/philosophy of life kind of thing. Yes i think untimately they all point to the same thing - I can't be doing with supernatural mumbo jumbo though, just give me solid clear instructions to absolute bliss (while I'm still alive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well for one, religion teaches us that violence against women is wrong. We men do horrible things to women nonstop, every day, all day. What did they do to deserve that? Absolutely nothing. Women have always been innocent and only strive to help educate ignorant males. It is through the teachings of Christ and Allah that we might better ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I was going to talk about atheist clergy members. I bet there's quite a bit more than we think, especially if they've been doing it for a while. They might join a seminary when they're 19 or something, all bright eyed and naive about the special place in the world they have chosen. But all of that slowly erodes the more they move up in the heirarchy. The mindess institutional bullshit gets to them at one point or another and they become disillusioned with the idea of being a preist. Nothing divine about a bunch of stuffy old men concerned with mostly political shit. They might ask themselves, "why did I have to sacrifice so much for this beauraucratic bullshit system? All I wanted to do is help people become closer to god." But what role does any kind of god play in this fucking mindless institution? The system has hijacked their personal lives and the loss of sense of control they experience will frustrate them to a breaking point. Some preists might try to regain that sense of control by molesting little boys and wtf church you suck This is very true. I only disagree with the last part, and that I think stems more from the restrictions the Catholic Church places on priests. They act out in desperate and heinous ways because of celibacy and the guilt associated with them acting on their natural sexual urges. Other Christian churches allow marriage. Also, the Catholic Church priesthood is male: females don't form their ranks of power. I can imagine that sense of entitlement with feeds into such actions. I've met some very sincere, kind, and tolerant priests. I know many themselves believe in things the Church practices against (and many are indeed homosexual - that's another touchy subject) but they stay because they can do good for their community. I feel the new Pope is very much from that sector of the priesthood, which is significant yet rarely they are the type to gain power in the church. Also, such revelations just can't be revealed often, especially within Christianity. This more true in the U.S. as well. It makes one a pariah. On the flipside there's a huge portion of the Jewish community that is athiest, and it's culturally a non-issue because, a friend of mine summed up, Judaism focuses on living a life in accordance to God's law first and foremost, and believing in God is secondary. Christianity relies on accepting Jesus as one's savior, and then beyond that specific caveat (the degree of this being stressed varies of course) it goes back to salvation in general. I find this appealing in some ways and terrible in others (for example, in it's more dubious theology it permits people to be terrible morally yet judge others, as well as weigh unequal sins equally). Many members of very orthodox communities like Hasidic Jews or conservative (in the social sense, not political necessary) communities rather live a closeted live as an agnostic or atheist for the sake of keeping their family and friends. It's likely the reason irreligion has been staved off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Being a godless heathen, I beat my wife on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Being a godless heathen, I beat my wife on a daily basis. we can make you into a new man. have you experienced the love of Christ? we should talk. Christ is the only way to make you stop enacting violence against women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patternoverlap Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well for one, religion teaches us that violence against women is wrong. We men do horrible things to women nonstop, every day, all day. What did they do to deserve that? Absolutely nothing. Women have always been innocent and only strive to help educate ignorant males. It is through the teachings of Christ and Allah that we might better ourselves. yes patriarchal religion had to crush matriarchal pagan religions because men are threatened by women and fertility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm a Zen Buddhist but I don't know if it counts, I don't believe in reincarnation, souls or any fancy stuff. But the practice is very important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm a Zen Buddhist but I don't know if it counts, I don't believe in reincarnation, souls or any fancy stuff. But the practice is very important to me. Bit of a cheeky question, but are you enlightened, or do you think you ever will become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm a Zen Buddhist but I don't know if it counts, I don't believe in reincarnation, souls or any fancy stuff. But the practice is very important to me. Bit of a cheeky question, but are you enlightened, or do you think you ever will become? I try to abide by the old saying that goes "abandon enlightenment and walk freely". Kenshō experiences are inevitable when your practice goes beyond your ordinary limits and opinions, but yesterdays insight is worthless. Attending to the here and now is the only thing that matters, and thoughts about enlightenment or delusion are obstructions to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 einstein proved that all moments exist and referenced that postulation of physics when consoling grieving friends, yet very few people think about the spiritual implications of this. it's a part of relativity theory and relativity theory is confirmed as true in new ways all the time. if all moments are eternal and the passing of time is an illusion then life kind of is the afterlife. it could be why people have their lives flash before their eyes during near death experiences. as babies we must sort present perceptions from the memories of prior perceptions, so we're always doing that unconsciously, and the process of ascribing a point as "now" takes a period of time, so by the time a point is labled "now," there is a newer point ready to take its place. that explains the seeming perpetual presence of change. einstein talks about this in the appendix "relativity and the problem of space." so there is a nice substitute for a solution to the fear of death. now we just need a good way to teach people the golden rule. if we could prove that feelings are a property of matter, which i think they are, then that would go a long way in that direction. if feelings could be shown to be matter that comes and goes from a person, and one's feelings are where one is coming from/the observer behind it all/the seat of the conscious mind, then identities are just windows through which a mess of crap views, and everyone is each other. the meaning of the basic idea of god is that everything is connected and has an incomprehensible significance. in this way it functions as an alternate terminology for the idea that feelings are a property of matter, because in that sense all matter has unimaginable significance and, considering time an extant dimension, as described above, and not a perpetually disappearing one, it seems that matter is all connected. therefor these central ideas of spiritualism and materialism are different terminologies for the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Are you Russell Brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I try to abide by the old saying that goes "abandon enlightenment and walk freely". Kenshō experiences are inevitable when your practice goes beyond your ordinary limits and opinions, but yesterdays insight is worthless. Attending to the here and now is the only thing that matters, and thoughts about enlightenment or delusion are obstructions to that. Abandoning yesterday's insight seems pretty brutal, but I can understand the reasoning. Thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 einstein proved that all moments exist and referenced that postulation of physics when consoling grieving friends, yet very few people think about the spiritual implications of this. it's a part of relativity theory and relativity theory is confirmed as true in new ways all the time. if all moments are eternal and the passing of time is an illusion then life kind of is the afterlife. it could be why people have their lives flash before their eyes during near death experiences. as babies we must sort present perceptions from the memories of prior perceptions, so we're always doing that unconsciously, and the process of ascribing a point as "now" takes a period of time, so by the time a point is labled "now," there is a newer point ready to take its place. that explains the seeming perpetual presence of change. einstein talks about this in the appendix "relativity and the problem of space." so there is a nice substitute for a solution to the fear of death. now we just need a good way to teach people the golden rule. if we could prove that feelings are a property of matter, which i think they are, then that would go a long way in that direction. if feelings could be shown to be matter that comes and goes from a person, and one's feelings are where one is coming from/the observer behind it all/the seat of the conscious mind, then identities are just windows through which a mess of crap views, and everyone is each other. the meaning of the basic idea of god is that everything is connected and has an incomprehensible significance. in this way it functions as an alternate terminology for the idea that feelings are a property of matter, because in that sense all matter has unimaginable significance and, considering time an extant dimension, as described above, and not a perpetually disappearing one, it seems that matter is all connected. therefor these central ideas of spiritualism and materialism are different terminologies for the same thing. very honest, have you found christ? you say some good points here, but can you prevent yourself from committing violence against women? read some passages in the good book. then we can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 1) http://www.clergyproject.org/ (a forum for non-believer clergy members) 2) Yeah, Buddhism is a beautiful study (once you rid of the bathwater). My life was changed by the books Buddhism Without Beliefs, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind and hell, even Zen Guitar. What little time I spent studying Buddhism rid me of my fear of death and lots of my anxiety about life. Also, I no longer have a neurotic inner dialogue constantly running like a news ticker. 3) I don't think it's irrational to have a "spiritual connection" to everything (although "spiritual" might not be the best word because of its supernatural overtones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granty Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 3) I don't think it's irrational to have a "spiritual connection" to everything (although "spiritual" might not be the best word because of its supernatural overtones). That's what bugs me about the 'spiritual' label. I'd say I'm a spiritual person in that I'm interested in things outside of the realm of human perception and current understanding, but if I told anyone that they'd start thinking I lived in a house full of dream catchers and reiki crystals. There needs to be a better word for spiritual for people firmly rooted who observe the laws of physics and common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadameChaos Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ah the western perspective on Buddhism - fantastically lel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 i've been atheist since day one, and so has my family and everyone i've ever known. it's pretty much the default position in sweden afaik. american atheism has sorta been weirding me out lately though, with all their crazy shenanigans and campaigns and "atheist churches" and what not. 'specially on the internet, it seems like a lot of people get all "anti atheism" simply because of all the stuff american atheists have been up to in the past 5 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ah the western perspective on Buddhism - fantastically lel. How so? I mean, I can imagine what you're gonna say. Americans and their McBuddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 But nonetheless: my light study of Westernized Buddhism greatly improved my life. So whatever, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterE Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ve believe in nussing labowski Ya, nussing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 But nonetheless: my light study of Westernized Buddhism greatly improved my life. So whatever, really. Well that's great. But you know, you could just as easily take a light study of Christianity and have it improve your life. I mean the ten commandments are not a bad start to a basically civil society, and the golden rule is pretty common in most religions, cause it's pretty decent right. then the bits about jesus' socialist tendencies are you know, not all that bad. I know, you don't like the organized aspects of Christianity - but trust - there is plenty to dislike about the organized aspects of Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I know, you don't like the organized aspects of Christianity - but trust - there is plenty to dislike about the organized aspects of Buddhism. I know, that's why I don't subscribe to any of it. I'm only really interested in the approaches and outlooks of Buddhism. Beyond that I'm simply not bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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