Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[azatoth]

Thiel is an insane libertarian. He also involved with Palantir, the big data firm. Think what he could do with access to the government surveillance technology.

[LimpyLoo]

Well, here come the Putin tactics:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5cs64r/kellyanne_conway_says_harry_reid_should_be_very/

[WeAreOceans]

imagine how disarming it would be to trump and his supporters that rag on the libuhral media if that same structure stopped playing into their rhetoric and actually tried to treat them fairly. keeping in mind that treating trump and his supporters fairly does not have to mean agreeing with them, nor does it enable them any more than denying their existence does.

 

that would be nice eh?

 

it would be equally as disarming if we see Trump supporters or alt-right personalities in mainstream media and not spend their entire airtime mocking and ragging on liberals, SJWs, feminists, millennials, etc etc but I don't really see it happening. I mean can you really see John Oliver getting replaced by that Sargon youtube guy and not just having smug liberal jokes being replaced with smug right-wing ones?

 

and then 2024 rolls around and your average liberal leaning voter sees no improvement to their lives under Trump, get tired of a bias, smug, rich media dismissing their views, and we do this all over again. Unless Trump does actually improve the country for all, least of all the rustbelt and rural working class.

 

Kanye West as president becomes less of a joke with this (granted, extreme) situation in mind

 

 

 

 

This is a good article https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/

 

Great read. I like the Facebook post linked too, very succinct and something a lot of the West needs to ingest.

 

 

Good read, but a bit self-serving in points, imo.

 

This piece on 538 makes a nice contrast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/ ): they change 1% of the Trumps votes in Clintons favor and speculate how the media would have explained the alternative outcome.

 

The effect on the outcome is huge. And with that, the likely narrative that would have been told by the (biased) media.

 

A small difference would have invalidated parts of this article, even though the electoral difference can be seen as noise. So even though this piece takes aim at the media (and everything else) as if its somehow above it all, it shows it's basically just like any other media piece: a narrative happily ignorant of the sensitivity of real world noise. 

 

It's easy for the media to draw conclusions which often mostly affirm their own predispositions (like the author of the article from the intercept explicitly does here, btw) without taking in regard the likelihood of an opposing outcome. Or rather, an opposing narrative.

 

(try reading any article with the idea that the opposite is actually closer to the truth. similar to listening to trump and thinking he's everything he made out his opponents to be. no stamina. corrupt. and a lousy leader. etc)

 

In a way the author does exactly what he mentions in this quote. The only difference is that he has luck on his side. Because the outcome was in line with his expectations. As if it was something inevitable. Which it just wasn't. Sorry. 

 

 

In each case, journalists who spend all day chatting with one another on Twitter and congregating in exclusive social circles in national capitals — constantly re-affirming their own wisdom in an endless feedback loop — were certain of victory. Afterward, the elites whose entitlement to prevail was crushed devoted their energies to blaming everyone they could find except for themselves, while doubling down on their unbridled contempt for those who defied them, steadfastly refusing to examine what drove their insubordination.

 

 

ah geez missed this post sorry, thanks for the opposing point of view

 

yeah I see the irony in it and the self-serving nature of it but it's not like these criticisms from many Trump supporters haven't been around for a while. In fact part of the whole "drain the swamp" catchphrase was hostility to what many saw as a bias, liberal media. I do genuinely believe liberal media and an insulated liberal echo chamber is what has been part of the rise of Trump. But you are right, a 2% difference and everything gets turned on its head - which is why, as with Brexit, it frustrates me seeing people thinking "welp job well done" with the Brexit/Trump vote going through, like there isn't still vast parts of your own country who don't agree with you, and are even willing to protest to against it.

 

All the same criticisms thrown at libuhrals and da media can and will be using against Republicans, conservatives, alt-right and ideologically neutral Trump supporters who just want a better life. Which is why I keep saying the onus is on them now to show a better example than what they have perceived, but it's a lot of work.

Edited November 14, 2016 by WeAreOceans

[Rubin Farr]

[Brisbot]

Both right and left wing media like to take individual instances of assholey-ness from a liberal, or conservative, and apply it to the whole group. Then they do this enough and people begin to believe the media.

The right wing media guarantee you will take that protester video, and say "Look at what liberals are!"

The left wing media will take a picture of someone writing racist white nationalist shit on a bathroom stall and say "Look at what Trump supporters are!"

Edited November 14, 2016 by Brisbot

[doublename]

You're a real credit to your race, bris'.

[Brisbot]

The Master Goat Race! You know who doesn't kill each other in droves? Goats.

btw, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Brisbot

[LimpyLoo]

Thiel is an insane libertarian. He also involved with Palantir, the big data firm. Think what he could do with access to the government surveillance technology.

Thiel has been on my radar for the last couple years. I often go out of my way to watch him talk as he's such a strange case study of a human being...

 

First off, he is obsessed with the concept of "mimetic desire" and imitation, and basically sees it as evidence that people are sheep ("sheeple," you might say). Whereas the reality is, imitation is a massively adaptive trait, it's really only found in humans and some higher primates, and it's essentially a really clever way of outsourcing cognitive busywork.

 

 

One thing you can pretty reliably tell about a person is how well they were socialized during development--as well as their general social disposition--based on how comfortable they are in their body. This might sound like Phrenology, but we learned during the Constructivist explosion in psychology that humans--and many other social primates--engage in 'rough and tumble play' when they're developing in order to learn social "games," and how to enact those "games" with their body. (This is exactly why people with Asperger's generally don't look comfortable in their body, btw.)

 

There's (of course) a bit more to it than that, but that's a start. But anyway, Thiel is a very physically-awkward person and that tells you (at least) something about his psychosocial disposition.

 

And as has been mentioned, he thinks 'social democracy' is outmoded, basically because it interferes with his ability to make money. So I seem him as a deeply misanthropic person, who presents his misanthropy as a deep concern for "freedom" and other such honorable values.

[joshuatxuk]

I have little faith that the Dems will realize their problems and address why they got their ass handed to them. They are too deep in the pocket of big money. Reading some of the liberal pundits it seems they completely missed the reason why they lost. The Dems got complacent. The minorities have caught up to them and seen that the Dems don't give a shit about them other than having them as a voting block. And they also forgot the working class, completely ignored them.

 

Exactly. They valued the minority vote increasing in size and participation way more the white working class. And turnout was still pretty good, just more came out for Trump In Texas for example, both HRC and Trump did better than Obama and Romney in terms of votes, and it was closer than it was in the couple few decades. 

 

Here's a crazy fact. A lot of white working class people voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump. Dems forgot a lot of superficial people voted for Obama. They forgot a lot of likely bitter old white people voted for Obama for the same reasons as Trump - they are economically desperate and politically disenchanted. That's why he won Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc. The racist bullshit was just to get a few more to come out and vote. The GOP gives them misleading and false hope on how they will help, the Dems do so as well even though they know better.

 

American political parties don't want to tackle 21st century economic reality: automation, globalization, clean energy, and other fundamentally progressive tech is changing everything and the old capitalistic class system of the US will not work. Secondary, the US middle class dream of the 50s, 60s, and 70s was greatly dependent on unions and progressive taxes. Conservatives have completely historically revised this.

[LimpyLoo]

Just look at Peter Thiel's physical awkwardness (literally just watch him walk out onto the stage):

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UTJB8AkT1dk

 

 

That is a person who has not learned how to navigate the social world with his body.

[LimpyLoo]

I am all for civil disobedience, but grabbing a sign out of the hands of a Trump supporter is really some lowbrow civil disobedience.

 

It's the political equivalent of an armpit fart.

[koolkeyZ865]

As long as it's peaceful it's a legitimate protest. If some of the protesters were mature enough not to put their hands on the opposition or their shit they may actually be taken a bit more seriously perhaps.

[LimpyLoo]

What would MLK or Thoreau do?

 

Vandalize cardboard signs, obviously

[koolkeyZ865]

lol

[Adieu]

Just look at Peter Thiel's physical awkwardness (literally just watch him walk out onto the stage):

 

 

 

That is a person who has not learned how to navigate the social world with his body.

 

Yeah that dude is up there on the autism spectrum.

 

But the body thing in particular, if you do not use your body properly, it becomes awkward also. So, people that sit at desks and never stretch and exercise generally have bad posture, weird gaits, tense muscle movements, etc.

[koolkeyZ865]

Peter Theil looks and sounds like a more unstable Gary Johnson

[Adieu]

Here the issue we are having in a nut shell. As you can see, globalization helped everyone for decades, and then beginning in the 80's that benefit began to drop. As you can see, it doesn't matter which party is in power. They've done nothing to improve this situation. My position is that this will be the case during a Trump presidency also, as completely altering the functioning of the economy will be extremely difficult, and also requires a desire to do so, which I don't think he has. The only effective answer I see is using social welfare programs to help blue collar workers pivot their careers, and give them a cushion with which they can put themselves back into the workforce in different roles. I don't think that unleashing fossil fuel energy production is going to be beneficial for anyone. It will be a like a band-aid for the incomes of the low-middle classes. Infrastructure spending would benefit to a degree, and isn't a bad approach, but it requires lots of money. I don't believe bringing manufacturing back to the USA will be beneficial, and further, there are tons of places manufacturing weapons for the MIC as we speak, and those require us to be continuing our military engagements to make sense in keeping their production alive. They also require more government spending as well.

 

Here's a paper, I haven't read fully yet, but I did pull some graphs from it to illustrate my point. http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/pn_15_4.pdf

 

    

 

Here is an article about inequality as well if anyone is interested.

 

http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by AdieuErsatzEnnui

[zkom]

Bringing the manufacturing back to US would be a short time fix. Next the jobs will be eaten by increasing automation. Think fully automatic factories with a single human watching over it.

[Adieu]

Bringing the manufacturing back to US would be a short time fix. Next the jobs will be eaten by increasing automation. Think fully automatic factories with a single human watching over it.

 

The thing is, moving manufacturing away from the USA is a natural behavior, because our income levels have risen so much. We outsource to other countries that are cheaper, and then when they've moved through the industrial revolution, think China, they begin doing the same thing. This is a natural process that occurs that is extremely beneficial to the entire planet, higher income countries get cheap products and country by country we move into the 1st world together. If you were to bring manufacturing back to the USA without major subsidies and government incentives then you either have to remove minimum wage, which is a regression in quality of life for blue collar workers, or you will have extremely expensive products. If products are too expensive it hurts the lower classes also.

 

There isn't a solution that bypasses government intervention in either case other than removing regulations altogether. 

[LimpyLoo]

 

Just look at Peter Thiel's physical awkwardness (literally just watch him walk out onto the stage):

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UTJB8AkT1dk

 

 

That is a person who has not learned how to navigate the social world with his body.

Yeah that dude is up there on the autism spectrum.

 

But the body thing in particular, if you do not use your body properly, it becomes awkward also. So, people that sit at desks and never stretch and exercise generally have bad posture, weird gaits, tense muscle movements, etc.

There are pictures of him when he was young, and his posture was the same then. I have two friends with (actual diagnosed) Asperger's

and they are very physically awkward, and in general it's almost always* because blindness to social cues prevented them from learning "body language," so to speak. (*Although occasionally caused by dyspraxia and muscle-tone issues)

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology)

 

Individuals with autism or other social difficulties may be less likely to exhibit mirroring, as they may be less subconsciously and consciously aware of the actions of others.[5] This factor may cause additional difficulties for the individuals, as without mirroring, establishing connections with other people may be more difficult. Additionally, other individuals may be less likely to build rapport with the person, as without mirroring the person may seem more dissimilar and less friendly. Individuals who are not subconsciously aware of gesture may have difficulties in social situations, as they may be less able to understand another person's perspective without it being explicitly stated, and thus may not understand covert cues that are often used in the social world.

 

 

I use Asperger's as a reference/example because it's fairly well-understood how the 'social blindness' associated with ASD causes awkwardness/clumsiness.

 

Anyway, much of our empathy stems from our embodied understanding of others. If you see a torture scene in a movie where someone is getting their fingernails pulled out, very often you'll instinctively cover your fingertips or ball up your hand, because you are mapping that person's bodily experience onto your own body.

 

This bodily rapport is a huge factor in empathy, and it's largely learned b the age of four, and I'm saying PT never learned it.

Edited November 14, 2016 by LimpyLoo

[LimpyLoo]

/masturbatory ponitification

[Adieu]

lol

[LimpyLoo]

lol

I stand by my assessment

 

 

 

 

The inability to properly mirror other individuals may strain the child's social relationships later in life.[8] This strain may exist because others may feel more distant from the child due to a lack of rapport, or because the child may have a difficult time feeling empathy for others without mirroring. Mirroring helps to facilitate empathy, as individuals more readily experience other people's emotions through mimicking posture and gestures. This empathy may help individuals create lasting relationships and thus excel in social situations. The action of mirroring allows individuals to believe they are more similar to another person, and perceived similarity can be the basis for creating a relationship.

 

 

 

 

[Squee]

 

Just look at Peter Thiel's physical awkwardness (literally just watch him walk out onto the stage):

 

 

 

That is a person who has not learned how to navigate the social world with his body.

 

Yeah that dude is up there on the autism spectrum.

 

Hahahahaha! I have no idea who he is but I love his walk!

[Adieu]

 

lol

I stand by my assessment

 

 

 

 

The inability to properly mirror other individuals may strain the child's social relationships later in life.[8] This strain may exist because others may feel more distant from the child due to a lack of rapport, or because the child may have a difficult time feeling empathy for others without mirroring. Mirroring helps to facilitate empathy, as individuals more readily experience other people's emotions through mimicking posture and gestures. This empathy may help individuals create lasting relationships and thus excel in social situations. The action of mirroring allows individuals to believe they are more similar to another person, and perceived similarity can be the basis for creating a relationship.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

"But the body thing in particular, if you do not use your body properly, it becomes awkward also"