Redruth Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 hypothetically, let's say the world agreed to make use of a new form of enlightened socialism. what is your definition of the difference between 'dark ages' socialism and this new form of it that would actually function properly? supposing that you r a wealthy watmm person; would you be willing to relinquish a large portion of your wealth to this system; if the system was imposed in a completely none-corrupt, none-corruptible form? what would be a fair yearly margin line income? £20, £30,000 per year? plees keep in mind the other social welfare programs that would be in place. all the free things you would get through the system right? shiny enlightened things. what would be free and what would not? how would a system like this really function, best and worst cast scenario? what r your ideas for and your disagreements with a perfect form of enlightened socialism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 none-corrupt, none-corruptible form I can't deal with hypotheticals that are this hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amen Lare Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Human is about corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 optimism? Nope. We're a fucked up and awful species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 optimism? I am optimized, but unless we can overcome qualities such as envy and greed, I really don't see how it can work. I'll try and herp-a- something of better quality tonight. Gotsta finish something first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Does the topic imply the existence of an ignorant socialism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zkom Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The only thing that can save us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, the obvious first step is the path to enlightenment of all individuals. This requires a great deal of work, and a huge amount of concentrated effort. This will be an ongoing process that will literally not end until our species ends.This can be solved by a large scale focus on discipline, enlightenment, and empathetic/sympathetic practices. In my opinion, the best form of government is one where it protects the individuals ability to privately choose what is best for them. A lot of things function more efficiently on a small scale. It's similar to the idea of delegation. The entire issue that we face is that our governments that are supposed to be protecting these freedoms end up corrupt and working in the interest of the most powerful.It also means our representative governments need to be reorganized. There is no reason for representation anymore. We have the ability to communicate across the entire earth. We should be holding everything to popular decision. Laws also need to be restructured to make them less convoluted and more efficient as well as more reasonable. Look how much damage drugs laws have done to society. It's a tragedy. It all starts with tearing down representative government in my opinion. People as a whole usually make good decisions in my experience. That is why everyone is so frustrated with our current problems, because most reasonable people can see how insanely these people operating society are governing. I liken it to dealing with an unreasonable person. It irritates you, it confounds you, and ultimately it drives you crazy. I think this is how many people feel when examining our society. It all starts from the top. (government) Another key issue is abandoning the system of having separate countries. I think there are multitudes of negative effects this causes for our species and very little positive. Imagine if we viewed people starving across the globe as our countrymen starving? The issue would be handled much more effectively. As a species we need to be more united. It's an issue though, because so many people view themselves as separate or individual from all those around them. I think it's perpetuated by religion in a way. We are all individual creations of god and whatnot. It's better in my opinion to start viewing ourselves as all being apart of this universe. We are of it. We are from it. We all the same pieces of it inside of us. We at all times are connected to those around us. We are a lot less individual than we perceive. I see this idea very clearly when looking at how individuals react to criminal punishment. Very often it's a tit for tat mentality. "He killed so he deserves to die." Not only is this hypocritical, but it leads to us missing the reality of the situation. If we sentence a criminal to death for murder we lose two of our brothers or sisters instead of one. There have now been two ultimate tragedies instead of one. Very often people don't realize that maybe there is more positive to us mending these situations as much as possible without enforcing the ultimate punishment. People view life as a privilege. This is especially paradoxical if someone is pro-life and pro death penalty. It's human nature to desire retribution I suppose, but I think it is the very base of our nature that still desires this. Killing is killing though. It is never right. Really though I don't believe things like capital punishment lead to a better society. That is what we should be focusing on. But I digress... The obvious thing is that we have more than enough for everyone yet there are those that go without the basic necessities for sustaining life. This is a spiritual problem at its heart. One that necessities good leadership. It's also a technological one. Once we have the ability to provide these necessities sustainably we will begin to see a more socialized organization of society. This is actually started to happen a bit, but there are forces working against it. Choice is an important aspect of this as well. People as a whole need to be deciding what they find important. Obviously, this is a drastic simplification, but organizing society has been one of the most challenging problems for humanity. Does the topic imply the existence of an ignorant socialism? All human existence is ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 optimism? I am optimized, but unless we can overcome qualities such as envy and greed, I really don't see how it can work. I'll try and herp-a- something of better quality tonight. Gotsta finish something first. I think envy and greed have there places. It's sort of a spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Does the topic imply the existence of an ignorant socialism? All human existence is ignorant. Do you imply that socialism depends on humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Does the topic imply the existence of an ignorant socialism? All human existence is ignorant. Do you imply that socialism depends on humans? I don't follow your questioning. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Can socialism exist on another planet? Can socialism exist inside a computer program? Do you believe in ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 flolthread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Can socialism exist on another planet? Can socialism exist inside a computer program? Do you believe in ideas? Yes, to strip the concept of socialism down to its most basic premise I think that the universe naturally tries to find balance between things and this causes equity in everything. As a species becomes more intelligent, give or take certain instances, the needle will move more towards socialism more so than any other system. Intelligence lends itself to convenience, sustainability, and surplus thereby influencing people to be more likely to share what they don't actually need. I do think that initially there is a struggle when beings become sentient, because they begin to drift away from the passive influence of the universe and into being able to manipulate it themselves. When you are alive you are essentially borrowing from the universe which means that you can encounter scarcity within your need to survive, but eventually if you can progress to be within ultimate harmony with your surroundings you essentially become a mirror of the natural processes that brought you into existence. At that point need ceases to exist, and the priority becomes creation, replication, and balance, Just like you see in the universe. When a star explodes on one end the galaxy another is born somewhere else. Everything hangs in this balance, and in my opinion the natural tendency for all things to come into balance is a good indicator the universe is finite. Otherwise, why would there be order? Order comes from necessity. To clarify my statement that "all human existence is ignorant", I mean that at present moment being that we are basically infants in the grand scheme of things as being apart of this universe all our actions will be ignorant regardless of what they are. All we do is learn through trial and error. We are not developed enough creatures to have full understanding of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Imagine a small state with a small populationlet there be labour-saving tools that aren’t usedlet people consider death and not move farlet there be boats and carts but no reason to ride themlet there be armour and weapons but no reason to employ themlet people return to the use of knots and be satisfied with their foodpleased with their clothing, content with their homes and happy with their customslet there be a state so near people hear its dogs and chickensand live out their lives without making a visit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 https://news.vice.com/articles/is-seattles-socialist-city-council-member-going-to-show-us-how-to-ditch-the-two-party-system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 we should go back to pangea, those were the days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (Non-state) socialism is the Answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Old?: independent national forms of taxation New?: international unified form of taxation How much?: there's prolly plenty of research about optimal forms of taxation. I'd stick to non-gop funded research, btw. /wall of text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (Non-state) socialism is the Answer. I agree. I think technology would enable looser forms of government. I don't think establishments like the ones we have now will be necessary after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 let's just go back to pre-industrial farm communities, avoid massive governing bodies and imperialism, and keep up with vaccinations - we'll ditch gas guzzling planes and cars for sailboats and rail that runs off solar batteries or something, I dunno maybe use ham radios if we can't keep the internet running if we're not going to explore space we might as well chill out, throw consumerism out the window, and see how much longer nature will tolerate our species Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 let's just go back to pre-industrial farm communities, avoid massive governing bodies and imperialism, and keep up with vaccinations - we'll ditch gas guzzling planes and cars for sailboats and rail that runs off solar batteries or something, I dunno maybe use ham radios if we can't keep the internet running if we're not going to explore space we might as well chill out, throw consumerism out the window, and see how much longer nature will tolerate our species All this but with nanotechnology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I've been supportive of the village thing for a long time. You wouldn't have to move to a city to find like minded people with similar skill sets as you could just grow one out of the ground or move the village that best reflects the ideas that your personality wants to advance with. Each village coated inside and out by nature interspersed with cropland (maintained by the bots of course). With the net you can keep up with what all the other autonomous communities are doing. And transport links could be either by air on super efficient vehicles or via the subterranean grid. You won't need to transport vast quantities of manufactured goods or raw materials as everything could be made locally, so the land needn't be split apart and wasted by vast road and rail networks, the air and subtrans should suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVWcptE6UAI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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