peace 7 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I was watching some 5 minute standup comedy from Conan O'Brien's show I think it was, and a dude made a good point about time travel and timelines: If perception as a linear timeline is possible with time travel, tons of Jewish scientists or hero types would go back to "right the wrong" of Hitler. But then before Hitler even did anything bad, his whole life, all he knows is tons of Jews attempting to murder him for no reason; all attempts necessarily failing to result in the present that the future time travelers know. From this he concludes a Jewish evil, resulting in what we remember about him. Point being: JOHN TITOR LIVES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Naw, not any time soon. There have been various 'working' models of warp bubble-type stuff for decades, but the necessary technology, and more importantly the sheer amounts of energy required, has always been out of reach. It likely will be for quite some time, if it's ever possible at all. It is my understanding that the EmDrive is not a warp-bubble type engine. It seems to be using quantum virtual particles as the driving force, so no more fuel needed. Which is good. Interesting development nonetheless and I hope there will be funding to look into it some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbot Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I don't have TIME to make tin foil hats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCM Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Oh man, goofin on Titor. That takes me right back to double aught two. :plays Lateralus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Naw, not any time soon. There have been various 'working' models of warp bubble-type stuff for decades, but the necessary technology, and more importantly the sheer amounts of energy required, has always been out of reach. It likely will be for quite some time, if it's ever possible at all. It is my understanding that the EmDrive is not a warp-bubble type engine. It seems to be using quantum virtual particles as the driving force, so no more fuel needed. Which is good. Interesting development nonetheless and I hope there will be funding to look into it some more. funding is going to be the biggest problem i think, they have to get indisputable results to convince people with money that this is worth investing on. Hopefully they can prove this is the real deal, im sure it will be easy to convince governments to invest, they (the people involve with the experiments) are not talking about some silly stuff here, this is in the "greatest moment in human history" category and something that will change our relationship with the universe forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 Also, i dont understand the people saying tin foil hat and conspiracy theory, this is an actual experiment being done by a subdivision of NASA, lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive#NASA.2FJSC_Advanced_Propulsion_Physics_Laboratory_.28Eagleworks.29 Six months later, early 2015, Paul March from Eagleworks made new results public, claiming positive experimental force measurements with a torsional pendulum in a hard vacuum: about 50 µN with 50 W of input power at 5.0×10−6torr, and new null-thrust tests.[28] The new RF power amplifiers were said to be made for hard vacuum, but still fail rapidly due to internal corona discharges, with not enough funding to replace or upgrade them, so measurements are still scarce and need improvement before a new report can be published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sagan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 awaiting replication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bechuga Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Unless Russia plan on going somewhere to plant a Ruskie flag on a worm hole, no funding will be coming I think. Unless China step to the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 The best article on the subject : http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 someone tell Patrick Stewart to put down that joint, and suit up! [youtubehd]4BV1Ba1zuhc[/youtubehd] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The best article on the subject : http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/ No one knows how they're getting the results they're getting; Shawyer says he knows to some extent, but his explanations aren't exactly accepted...by anyone. This alone isn't a huge deal. Airplanes came to be without a true and full understanding of they worked, it was just a matter of 'well, it does work, and we can control it, we just don't understand everything about it.' Further than just not understanding this, the results are nowhere near clear; even the most recent results need to be peer-reviewed. And I'd bet that within a couple months we'll see some arguments that shoot it down again. Ultimately my main issues with this is that on its face, the EmDrive seems to violate the laws of the universe. Nearly every scientist that looks at it says this, but even someone like me who has only the most basic understanding of higher-level sciences understands this. If you're going to push a huge weight through space at high speeds, you have to get that energy from somewhere...and the energy use claimed by Shawyer just doesn't add up to what it should be. Now, is it possible? sure...but for that to be so, the EmDrive must be exploiting some powerful and entirely unknown aspects of physics. Simple as that. In researching the EmDrive, there's some bits of info about the Cannae drive as well, that is similar and is supposedly based slightly more on known forces, but they both fall into the category of 'we really don't understand these things and they're most likely just showing these results because they're data mishaps' and so I, and apparently many others, aren't giving them much weight any time soon. I hope this shit is totally legit, for many reasons. I just really really really doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 ^ you seem to have a better understanding than me in all of this, so the problem is not finance is just that the results are so out there that people will just ignore it? seems weird to me, i mean with the results they have now isnt worth it to look into it more with better machines etc etc. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 “Routine travel among the stars is impossible without new discoveries regarding the fabric of space and time, or capability to manipulate it for our needs,” says Neil deGrasse Tyson, the "Cosmos famous" astrophysicist at the American Museum of Natural History, said “By my read, the idea of a functioning warp drive remains far-fetched, but the real take-away is that people are thinking about it — reminding us all that the urge to explore continues to run deep in our species." There have been hints in recent news that NASA may be on the path to discovering warp bubbles that could make the local universe accessible for human exploration. NASA scientists may be close announcing they may have broken the speed of light. According to state-of-the art theory, a warp drive could cut the travel time between stars from tens of thousands of years to weeks or months. The catalyst for the trending warp-drive excitement is the Electromagnetic Drive or EM Drive, a thruster that was engineered to steer rockets which eliminates the use of a propellant originally intended for moon missions, Mars missions and low-Earth orbit (LEO) operations. The experiment that led to the possibility of faster than light interstellar travel took place in the vacuum of space. According to posts on NASASpaceFlight.com, a website devoted to the engineering side of space news, when lasers were fired through the EmDrive’s resonance chamber, some of the beams appeared to travel faster than the speed of light. If that’s true, it would mean that the EmDrive is producing a warp field or bubble. But "How?" If the laser beams are moving faster than the speed of light, then it would indicate that they are creating some sort of warp field, or bubble in the space-time foam, which in turn produces the thrust that could, in theory, power a spaceship bound for the center of the Milky Way or one of its dwarf galaxy satellites. The bubble would contract space-time in front of the ship, flow over the ship, then expand back to normality behind it. It’s inaccurate to describe the spaceship as moving faster than the speed of light, but rather space-time is moving around the ship faster than the speed of light. Harold G. White, a physicist and advanced propulsion engineer at NASA and other NASA engineers are trying to determine whether faster-than-light travel — warp drive — might someday be possible. The team has attempting to slightly warp the trajectory of a photon, changing the distance it travels in a certain area, and then observing the change with a device called an interferometer. “Space has been expanding since the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago,” said Dr. White, 43, who runs the research project told the New York Times. “And we know that when you look at some of the cosmology models, there were early periods of the universe where there was explosive inflation, where two points would’ve went receding away from each other at very rapid speeds. Nature can do it,” he added. “So the question is, can we do it?” In 1994, a Mexican physicist, Miguel Alcubierre, theorized that faster-than-light speeds were possible in a way that did not contradict Einstein by harnessing the expansion and contraction of space itself. Under Dr. Alcubierre’s hypothesis, a ship still couldn’t exceed light speed in a local region of space. But a theoretical propulsion system he sketched out manipulated space-time by generating a so-called “warp bubble” that would expand space on one side of a spacecraft and contract it on another. An Alcubierre Warp Drive stretches spacetime in a wave causing the fabric of space ahead of a spacecraft to contract and the space behind it to expand. The ship can ride the wave to accelerate to high speeds and time travel. The Alcubierre drive, also known as the Alcubierre metric or Warp Drive, is a mathematical model of a spacetime exhibiting features reminiscent of the fictional "warp drive" from Star Trek, which can travel "faster than light/" Alcubierre-warp-drive-manifold“In this way, the spaceship will be pushed away from the Earth and pulled towards a distant star by space-time itself,” Dr. Alcubierre wrote. Dr. White, the NYT reports, has likened it to stepping onto a moving walkway at an airport. Alcubierre’s theory, however, depended on large amounts of a little understood or observed type of “exotic matter” that violates typical physical laws. In general relativity, one often first specifies a plausible distribution of matter and energy, and then finds the geometry of the spacetime associated with it; but it is also possible to run the Einstein field equations in the other direction, first specifying a metric and then finding the energy-momentum tensor associated with it, and this is what Alcubierre did in building his metric. This practice means that the solution can violate various energy conditions and require exotic matter. The need for exotic matter leads to questions about whether it is actually possible to find a way to distribute the matter in an initial spacetime which lacks a "warp bubble" in such a way that the bubble will be created at a later time. Yet another problem according to Serguei Krasnikov is that it would be impossible to generate the bubble without being able to force the exotic matter to move at locally FTL speeds, which would require the existence of tachyons. Some methods have been suggested which would avoid the problem of tachyonic motion, but would probably generate a naked singularity at the front of the bubble. Dr. White believes that advances he and others have made render warp speed less implausible. Among other things, he has redesigned the theoretical warp-traveling spacecraft — and in particular a ring around it that is key to its propulsion system — in a way that he believes will greatly reduce the energy requirements. But ”We’re not bolting this to a spacecraft,” he said of the technology. Richard Obousy, a physicist who is president of Icarus Interstellar, a nonprofit group composed of volunteers collaborating on starship design, said “it is not airy-fairy, pie in the sky. We tend to overestimate what we can do on short time scales, but I think we massively underestimate what we can do on longer time scales.” Dr. White likened his experiments to the early stages of the WW 11 Manhattan Project, which were aimed at creating a very small nuclear reaction merely as proof that it could be done. Still, one of the most dubious is Dr. Alcubierre himself. He listed a number of concerns, starting with the vast amounts of exotic matter that would be needed. “The warp drive on this ground alone is impossible,” he said. “At speeds larger than the speed of light, the front of the warp bubble cannot be reached by any signal from within the ship,” he said. “This does not just mean we can’t turn it off; it is much worse. It means we can’t even turn it on in the first place.” daily galaxy would be crazy if this turned out to be possible. looking forward to interstellar politics, propaganda and war, but even more to new ways humans will fuck things up using the multi-verse and time travel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Just gonna leave this here... http://www.wired.com/2015/05/nasa-warp-drive-yeah-still-poppycock/ Sent using magic space waves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YO303 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 ^ great article, its good to read from all sides, especially for ignorant people like me, makes things very confusing but very exciting. Whats cool about this is that we can witness scientific discussion, before all that shit happened in florida hotels conference rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace 7 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yah, but the downside of being Richard Devine is that he's like 80% machine, so he can't really enjoy his idealistic IDM lifestyle. Even when cuddling in bed with his partner: INITIATING CUDDLE SEQUENCE. CALIBRATING HAPPINESS LEVELS...... HAPPINESS LEVEL 7. SMILE, AFFIRMATIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 SMILE, AFFIRMATIVE Probably my favorite track on Lipswitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 someone tell Patrick Stewart to put down that joint, and suit up! [youtubehd]4BV1Ba1zuhc[/youtubehd] if only all of us could be mad pussy hounds at his age. god bless him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 ^ great article, its good to read from all sides, especially for ignorant people like me, makes things very confusing but very exciting. Whats cool about this is that we can witness scientific discussion, before all that shit happened in florida hotels conference rooms. Agreed! The 'mainstreaming' of previously esoteric science is great in that sense, we all get to see more of what happens behind the scenes...but at the same time you get reporters blowing shit up (like the EMdrive stuff) that otherwise would've gained almost no attention in the past. Scientists have a way of pushing things through slowly, and sometimes that's bad, but most of the time it's for the best. Anything legitimate that keeps the layperson interested in science in good though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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