Mayweather vs Pacquiao

[QQQ]

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

Two of the worlds best fighters beating the shit out of each other. Its like watching Dragon Ball Z play out in real life.

[Nebraska]

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUHYUpmTFs

[Candiru]

I don't believe in paintball either. I'm not a violent person.

 

*crosses legs and knits sweater*

[spratters]

"All I know is, never bet on the white guy"

[chenGOD]

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

 

If you view it simply as two dudes beating the shit out of each other than yeah.

 

On the other hand, if you view it as a sporting contest where two individuals who have spent years honing their talents try to best each other through the application of said talents then it's a little different yeah? Or are you saying that physical accomplishments shouldn't be celebrated?

 

I mean you could put your attitude toward anything. "i don't really see the appeal of a dude twiddling knobs on a mixer on stage. that's not music."

[doublename]

I mean, no matter how hard the fighters worked at it, watching dudes inflict brain damage on one another is not appealing to some people (no, I don't watch yanqui football either).

[logakght]

I'm just here to say that I don't care.

[goDel]

Rooting for pacman. When's the fight btw?

[chenGOD]

May 2nd, 8pm Las vegas time.

[kokoon]

I always thought you're not supposed to hit people.

[Braintree]

 

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

 

If you view it simply as two dudes beating the shit out of each other than yeah.

 

On the other hand, if you view it as a sporting contest where two individuals who have spent years honing their talents try to best each other through the application of said talents then it's a little different yeah? Or are you saying that physical accomplishments shouldn't be celebrated?

 

I mean you could put your attitude toward anything. "i don't really see the appeal of a dude twiddling knobs on a mixer on stage. that's not music."

 

 

There are many forms of physical contests that don't involve punching each other in the face.

 

Although that facet of human behavior is inherently in us, it should be recognized and scrutinized rather than celebrated.

[Hail Sagan]

 

 

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

 

If you view it simply as two dudes beating the shit out of each other than yeah.

 

On the other hand, if you view it as a sporting contest where two individuals who have spent years honing their talents try to best each other through the application of said talents then it's a little different yeah? Or are you saying that physical accomplishments shouldn't be celebrated?

 

I mean you could put your attitude toward anything. "i don't really see the appeal of a dude twiddling knobs on a mixer on stage. that's not music."

 

 

There are many forms of physical contests that don't involve punching each other in the face.

 

Although that facet of human behavior is inherently in us, it should be recognized and scrutinized rather than celebrated.

 

 

 

Nah. Some people enjoy it, self included. The participants know the risks involved but choose to fight anyways. If their hearts weren't in it they could, and likely would move on to throwing/kicking balls around or running marathons or something. Preventing people from doing what they enjoy and make a living off of because of the possibility of them being harmed or because it supposedly sends society the wrong message according to the way you see things sounds a bit ridiculous. Boxing is a great and has produced some of the greatest, and most exciting, moments in the history of sports. It traces all the way back to the first olympic games alongside the likes of wrestling and races and won't be leaving the picture any time soon. If you want to deny or be critical of something you consider inherent to the human condition simply because you think boxing matches are positively reinforcing violent behavior there's plenty of that in the news, movies, video games, music, etc. Plus, outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather it's a pretty niche sport as far as the general public is concerned.

 

Not enjoying sports is fine. But man, repeatedly hearing some guy's rant about why sports are beneath him complete with armchair sociological analysis about how it's a metaphor for this or that is lame. Just say you don't like sports. We get it.

[Braintree]

 

 

 

I really don't see the appeal of two dudes beating the shit out of each other.

 

Seems pretty neolithic.

 

If you view it simply as two dudes beating the shit out of each other than yeah.

 

On the other hand, if you view it as a sporting contest where two individuals who have spent years honing their talents try to best each other through the application of said talents then it's a little different yeah? Or are you saying that physical accomplishments shouldn't be celebrated?

 

I mean you could put your attitude toward anything. "i don't really see the appeal of a dude twiddling knobs on a mixer on stage. that's not music."

 

 

There are many forms of physical contests that don't involve punching each other in the face.

 

Although that facet of human behavior is inherently in us, it should be recognized and scrutinized rather than celebrated.

 

 

 

Nah. Some people enjoy it, self included. The participants know the risks involved but choose to fight anyways. If their hearts weren't in it they could, and likely would move on to throwing/kicking balls around or running marathons or something. Preventing people from doing what they enjoy and make a living off of because of the possibility of them being harmed or because it supposedly sends society the wrong message according to the way you see things sounds a bit ridiculous. Boxing is a great and has produced some of the greatest, and most exciting, moments in the history of sports. It traces all the way back to the first olympic games alongside the likes of wrestling and races and won't be leaving the picture any time soon. If you want to deny or be critical of something you consider inherent to the human condition simply because you think boxing matches are positively reinforcing violent behavior there's plenty of that in the news, movies, video games, music, etc. Plus, outside of Pacquiao and Mayweather it's a pretty niche sport as far as the general public is concerned.

 

Not enjoying sports is fine. But man, repeatedly hearing some guy's rant about why sports are beneath him complete with armchair sociological analysis about how it's a metaphor for this or that is lame. Just say you don't like sports. We get it.

 

 

So you've never heard of MMA? It's pretty huge in the USA. It's definitely not a niche sport. I'm not just talking about boxing, I'm talking about contests where two opponents are pitted against one another for the sole purpose of seeing who can inflict the most damage upon one another. As an activity of practice for self defense or of self reflection, I think it's fine. When it's a contest made for entertainment is when it's bastardized and mutated.

 

In your dismissive analysis of my comments, you fail to point out the positives of these contests. What is to be gained after a contest such as this? Other than a title, some money, and an evening of cheap entertainment?

 

What I hinted at in my last response was that brutality is inherent in humankind. The need to feel superior in certain ways will always be there. Brutality, while a necessity for basic survival, is mostly a hindrance in the modern world. Without proper self reflection or understanding of why these contests come to be, they'll remain tawdry to me on a large scale.

[Adieu]

I think it's all well and good. I just worry about the brain injury aspect. It seems the worst part is that people will accept it just to be successful which is unfortunate.

[goDel]

Although I understand your dislike of the violent nature of sports like boxing or especially mma, I can appreciate a 'good fight' nevertheless. Imo, a good fight is when two fighters are pitted against eachother where both are good fighters and neither one of them is able to simply dominate the other. It shouldn't be a bloodmatch, but rather a game of physical chess where strategy, technique and endurance are the factors which create the difference (rather than strength).

 

The next video offers an interesting insights (imo) to that 'game of chess' nature, imo. It's more like a violent form of dancing, perhaps. With the goal to paradoxically minimize the amount of brutality. Personally, i think whenever blood gets involved in a fight, it should be ended. Even if both fighters would be perfectly able to continue the fight. Whenever explicit physical harm is involved, it stops being a sport.

 

Although I don't think I can change the way you view boxing, perhaps this video can help you to understand why other people could:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmz9tPe6OIU

[Hail Sagan]

 

So you've never heard of MMA? It's pretty huge in the USA. It's definitely not a niche sport. I'm not just talking about boxing, I'm talking about contests where two opponents are pitted against one another for the sole purpose of seeing who can inflict the most damage upon one another. As an activity of practice for self defense or of self reflection, I think it's fine. When it's a contest made for entertainment is when it's bastardized and mutated.

 

Obviously have heard of MMA, which is growing fast in the US. Internationally speaking Boxing is still the premier combat sport but has spent a long time, at least with respect to upper-tier matchmaking and title fights, being broadcast on premium cable channels (i.e. HBO or Showtime) with the most intriguing fights being available only through Pay Per Views. MMA, which is increasing in popularity, has had more coverage on basic cable lately but still falls in line with boxing where the big match ups are mainly PPVs. Comparatively speaking, combat sports are niche when stacked up beside the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA etc. You don't as much coverage on Boxing on ESPN's Sport Center as you do other sports.

 

Also, what does boxing with people (I'm assuming you're not just talking about hitting the heavy bag) as an activity of self-reflection mean? Elaborate on why that is ok but making it your livelihood is not?

 

 

 

 

In your dismissive analysis of my comments, you fail to point out the positives of these contests. What is to be gained after a contest such as this? Other than a title, some money, and an evening of cheap entertainment?

 

Is Boxing supposed to ameliorate poverty, world hunger and the global warming situation? I watch Boxing because it is entertainment, same reason I watch movies or listen to music. I don't expect directors or musicians to censor their craft to cater to the sensitive masses. I really think the cheap entertainment comment is selling the sport short btw. It can be brutal at times, definitely. People have died in the ring. But a lot of the great Boxers throughout history have come from some incredibly rough dispositions and have overcome serious adversity to obtain those titles you scoff at. Take Bernard Hopkins for example, who grew up in Philly, got incarcerated and learned to box (at a very late age) behind bars to become one of the greatest champions of all time. Ali who refused to go to war in Vietnam and was a major figure in the civil rights movement for the black community. Joe Louis, the black heavyweight contender who exacted revenge on Max Schmelling, the man who had Hitler's blessing and was supposed to represent the master race before he was knocked out in front of a cheering crowd. A few examples.

 

The main reason I enjoy Boxing so much, however, is because it is one of those sports where raw athleticism isn't always enough at the top level. There is no one on the bench ready to step in when you're tired or injured. Physical attributes are required (speed, power, chin, reflexes, etc.) but strategy, dedication to training, heart and resilience (both physically and mentally) have lead to seemingly outmatched opponents persevering and shifting the momentum in their favor. Boxing, or any combat sport for that matter, at its highest level demands more than probably any other sport you can think of. When you know the individuals, their stories, and what motivates them to fight it's hard not to feel something that other sports don't offer. When a really amazing fight occurs (be it a high speed chess match or an all out firefight) it's amazing to watch. Sometimes you get a dud, and other times it's sad as hell to see someone you admire get dominated. But that's life I suppose.

 

 

What I hinted at in my last response was that brutality is inherent in humankind. The need to feel superior in certain ways will always be there. Brutality, while a necessity for basic survival, is mostly a hindrance in the modern world. Without proper self reflection or understanding of why these contests come to be, they'll remain tawdry to me on a large scale.

 

 

I mean, yeah I agree that brutality is both inherent and a problem in our society and boxing certainly does have that element to it. I would say that beyond the violence consider the amount of persistence, effort, and fortitude that goes along with the fighting spirit. It may seem perverse to you but a lot of these fighters really do have a passion for their sport, and some would have lost (or worse) without it.

[Braintree]

 

Obviously have heard of MMA, which is growing fast in the US. Internationally speaking Boxing is still the premier combat sport but has spent a long time, at least with respect to upper-tier matchmaking and title fights, being broadcast on premium cable channels (i.e. HBO or Showtime) with the most intriguing fights being available only through Pay Per Views. MMA, which is increasing in popularity, has had more coverage on basic cable lately but still falls in line with boxing where the big match ups are mainly PPVs. Comparatively speaking, combat sports are niche when stacked up beside the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA etc. You don't as much coverage on Boxing on ESPN's Sport Center as you do other sports.

 

My point is that where there's a lot of money to be made there is exploitation (of both the viewer and the participants).

 

 

 

Also, what does boxing with people (I'm assuming you're not just talking about hitting the heavy bag) as an activity of self-reflection mean? Elaborate on why that is ok but making it your livelihood is not?

It's often a theme in Eastern martial arts. You're not pitting yourself against an opponent, you're pitting yourself against yourself. Some cultures claim it's one possible way to "enlightenment." It requires more thought of philosophy and an understanding of your surroundings (physical and otherwise).

 

 

Is Boxing supposed to ameliorate poverty, world hunger and the global warming situation? I watch Boxing because it is entertainment, same reason I watch movies or listen to music. I don't expect directors or musicians to censor their craft to cater to the sensitive masses.

 

No form of entertainment can. I won't go on ad nauseam about the origins of artistic expression through an anthropological lens (these things are still being discovered), but I'm sure the ancient motivations for creating a piece of art and wanting to fight someone for personal gain come from two different parts of us.

 

 

I really think the cheap entertainment comment is selling the sport short btw. It can be brutal at times, definitely. People have died in the ring. But a lot of the great Boxers throughout history have come from some incredibly rough dispositions and have overcome serious adversity to obtain those titles you scoff at.

 

I don't scoff at their achievement over adversity, I scoff at their means of doing so.

 

 

Take Bernard Hopkins for example, who grew up in Philly, got incarcerated and learned to box (at a very late age) behind bars to become one of the greatest champions of all time. Ali who refused to go to war in Vietnam and was a major figure in the civil rights movement for the black community. Joe Louis, the black heavyweight contender who exacted revenge on Max Schmelling, the man who had Hitler's blessing and was supposed to represent the master race before he was knocked out in front of a cheering crowd. A few examples.

 

Dude. I hate nazis too!

 

 

 

The main reason I enjoy Boxing so much, however, is because it is one of those sports where raw athleticism isn't always enough at the top level. There is no one on the bench ready to step in when you're tired or injured. Physical attributes are required (speed, power, chin, reflexes, etc.) but strategy, dedication to training, heart and resilience (both physically and mentally) have lead to seemingly outmatched opponents persevering and shifting the momentum in their favor. Boxing, or any combat sport for that matter, at its highest level demands more than probably any other sport you can think of. When you know the individuals, their stories, and what motivates them to fight it's hard not to feel something that other sports don't offer. When a really amazing fight occurs (be it a high speed chess match or an all out firefight) it's amazing to watch. Sometimes you get a dud, and other times it's sad as hell to see someone you admire get dominated. But that's life I suppose.

If you change "Boxing" with any other sport, that sounds like a quote I've heard many times over.

 

I find war fascinating as hell. I've read the Art of War several times for insights into strategy, but I don't think anyone should do it.

 

I mean, yeah I agree that brutality is both inherent and a problem in our society and boxing certainly does have that element to it. I would say that beyond the violence consider the amount of persistence, effort, and fortitude that goes along with the fighting spirit. It may seem perverse to you but a lot of these fighters really do have a passion for their sport, and some would have lost (or worse) without it.

 

Passion in any regard is admirable, but if the passion comes from a 100k year old genetic impulse some self examination is warranted.

I actually didn't want this to become a runaway debate. I accept that we see things very differently.

[chenGOD]

So much to agree with in Sagan's post. I would argue though that at their top levels, all sports require more than just raw athleticism. All those attributes you list are present in other top athletes. Anyhoo - if brutality is inherent in humanity, then to shun combat sports is to shun something inherent in humanity - or in other words to deny the human condition.

As to reflection and self-improvement, listening to perhaps the most famous troubled boxer in America, you can tell Mike Tyson has gone through an awful lot of reflection. And he's gone on record as saying he something along the lines of without boxing he'd either be dead or serving life in jail.

As to brain damage - yeah that part sucks. It's gone down in modern times, cause the average fighter's career is shorter, and the refs are generally better at stopping fights when they need to be stopped. Also read a study that attributed a certain genetic trait to higher incidences of brain damage (while fully acknowledging that incidence rate in boxing is higher than in the general population). Still, risk vs. reward.

[QQQ]

The fight is on 4am UK time. If I stay up that late its going to be with the help of lots of drink/stimulation so by the time the first punch gets thrown I'd be too out of it to take it all in properly. Might have to watch it the next day if I can find an online link whilst managing to somehow avoid spoilers.

[tec]

I have only ever watched two boxing games before and I will be watching my third (this one) at a friend's house with other blokes. What things can I occasionally shout out to make it appear that I know what I am talking about?

[melancholera]

"Did you see that ludicrous display?!"

[ghOsty]

Team PacMan, Mayweather just seems like such an arrogant prick, wouldn't mind seeing him get his ass beat.

[tec]

"Did you see that ludicrous display?!"

 

*jots it down*

[QQQ]

Team PacMan, Mayweather just seems like such an arrogant prick, wouldn't mind seeing him get his ass beat.

I don't think anyone would. Has there ever been a more Good VS Evil fight? This is, like, filmworthy stuff.

[Hail Sagan]

I have only ever watched two boxing games before and I will be watching my third (this one) at a friend's house with other blokes. What things can I occasionally shout out to make it appear that I know what I am talking about?

 

Feel free to say this a lot

 

"JAB!!!

 

JAB!!!

 

 

USE THE JAB!!!!

 

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR!?

 

USE THE JAB!!!"

 

or the classic

 

"GO TO THE BODY!!!

 

YOU'RE HEAD HUNTING TOO MUCH. GO TO THE BODY!!!

 

NOoooo *sigh*

 

GO TO THE BODY!!!"

 

Then you can lean over to the person next to you and say something like "He should really invest in going to the body. If he does it will pay dividends heading into the championship rounds (aka rounds 11 and 12 should it go that far)"

 

#FakingThaFunkOnFightNight