Germany NYE attacks

[Guest WNS000]

WATMM loves to mock Scientology, but is kinda touchy about criticizing Islam.

(it seems ambivalent on Christianity)

 

lol

[LimpyLoo]

 

WATMM loves to mock Scientology, but is kinda touchy about criticizing Islam.

(it seems ambivalent on Christianity)

 

lol

 

 

I mean seriously.

 

I have a bunch of dearly-held beliefs, and nobody on here hesitates to shit all over them

(nor would I want anyone to hesitate to shit all over them)

 

But if I was Muslim, I feel like people would start tip-toeing around my beliefs

 

And if I was a Scientologist, people would simply wait 'til my back was turned

and then collectively point their assholes at my beliefs and shit with wild abandon and unconstrained glee

[LimpyLoo]

Or imagine people saying that drawing L Ron Hubbard was "a dick move" or "bigoted" because it might offend Scientologists

(it doesn't happen to, but just imagine for a moment that it did)

those people would be laughed off the face of the earth

and rightly so

but with Islam...

[Guest WNS000]

 

 

WATMM loves to mock Scientology, but is kinda touchy about criticizing Islam.

(it seems ambivalent on Christianity)

 

lol

 

 

I mean seriously.

 

I have a bunch of dearly-held beliefs, and nobody on here hesitates to shit all over them

(nor would I want anyone to hesitate to shit all over them)

 

But if I was Muslim, I feel like people would start tip-toeing around my beliefs

 

And if I was a Scientologist, people would simply wait 'til my back was turned

and then collectively point their assholes at my beliefs and shit with wild abandon and unconstrained glee

 

 

I agree with you. It is sad yet so funny. The world is a crazy, hypocritical, absurd place. I absolutely "love" the double-standards "tolerant" and "progressive" multi-culti people have.

[usagi]

 

What made you leave Islam?

 

 

didn't work for me. as in, I didn't feel it had any helpful solutions for the problems I was facing in my daily life. I slowly left it behind. I'm agnostic now.

 

I didn't want to play that card itt by the way, but the situation called for it. I feel like we're at a point where the situation is delicate/explosive and if the fearmongering gets out of hand it will really cost people. everyone, not just the refugees/economic migrants/whatever box you want to put them in to make them seem less worthy of aid.

 

so on an issue like this, when a person says "disregard the numbers/facts/whatever" and just sticks to their guns blindly without really knowing what they're talking about, they're asking to be scorned as far as I'm concerned.

 

repugnant. wow, is that some form of therapy to insult a complete stranger on the net.

I am in now way against musulman, I have had many musulman housemate and lived for months and years with musulman. I was the tenant of my place and have taken many musulman. I have no hate in my heart for musulman. I am however concern aboutcertain aspect of islam. I was seeing a documentary how your family will reject you if you reject islam. I have read a lot about human rights in islamic countries, teh way they treat gays, woman rights and Im entitled to have concerns about that tradition.

 

I can't accurately assess its therapeutic value in a medical sense but it can be fun, sure.

 

anyway, it sounds like you didn't learn anything about how to deal with "different" people from having moosoolman housemates. a concern about incompatible values is fine but when you start to extrapolate that to an entire population, some of whom are not even Muslim, you're clearly allowing your (flawed) intuition about things to take over from your reasoning. and you expect to stroll onto this forum and shitpost to that effect without criticism? trying to turn this into a debate about Islam (i.e. an ideological superiority contest) when it's not about Islam is repugnant, that is the word for it.

 

the quality of new blood into this forum has dropped dramatically in recent times. no more post-hedgehog coitus pics or Does Anyone Need A Show Poster threads, now we just get boring clowns like this. #closetheborders

[Guest WNS000]

I also love how this whole debate would be put to an end by a skilled neurologist or a psychiatrist. Everything would be so blatant most people wouldn't be able to handle it. So many dreams and ideals would be shattered. The only defence against that would be a philosophical or religious wankery trying to relativize everything. That is the most laughable and sad part of it all.

[hello spiral]

how do people like this end up on WATMM, seriously. never mind Europe being flooded with refugees, our more immediate concern is WATMM being flooded by sheltered autistic pseudointellectuals and self-indulgent time-wasting essayists. it wasn't this bad a few years ago. #closetheborders JR

 

I guess the good news is that nobody on here has their shit together enough to actually make it into a position where they're able to make decisions about this or have any real impact one way or the other, so we're all just chattin' shit, essentially. I imagine some people itt would have full-on meltdowns trying to assess the situation on the ground and do the right thing in the irl circumstances.

 

 

 

 

musulman

 

 

[usagi]

I also love how this whole debate would be put to an end by a skilled neurologist or a psychiatrist. Everything would be so blatant most people wouldn't be able to handle it. So many dreams and ideals would be shattered. The only defence against that would be a philosophical or religious wankery trying to relativize everything. That is the most laughable and sad part of it all.

 

people who try to draw straight lines and rectangular boxes around human behaviour/life in general, using the science! approach, don't have enough life/people experience to understand how the world works. if you believe a neurologist or a psychiatrist would be able to clearly delineate all the various aspects of this complex situation and come up with a clear, 100% ironclad approach that also happens to be the right thing to do, you're deluding yourself.

 

what's more likely to happen is that they would present a bunch of facts that connect some pieces of the puzzle and shed light on only a part of the story, and then these facts would be turned into weapons by you, LimpyAssholeMouth, and whoever is on the whole ideological superiority trip, and the arguing would continue. that's what usually happens.

[KovalainenFanBoy]

I also love how this whole debate would be put to an end by a skilled neurologist or a psychiatrist. Everything would be so blatant most people wouldn't be able to handle it. So many dreams and ideals would be shattered. The only defence against that would be a philosophical or religious wankery trying to relativize everything. That is the most laughable and sad part of it all.

 

So you're saying you are objectively right? Post the proof dude. Present it formally. Don't be afraid to use complex notation. We're all smart guys here

[watmmisdead]

 

 

the quality of new blood into this forum has dropped dramatically in recent times. no more post-hedgehog coitus pics or Does Anyone Need A Show Poster threads, now we just get boring clowns like this. #closetheborders

 

Im on this forum since 2012. I used to be murphythecat.

 

you should try to answer Jev posts.

[Audioblysk]

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

[Guest WNS000]

 

I feel like we're at a point where the situation is delicate/explosive and if the fearmongering gets out of hand it will really cost people. everyone, not just the refugees/economic migrants/whatever box you want to put them in to make them seem less worthy of aid.

 

Yes, the mass-migration policy will definitely cost people. It is just a matter of time before cultures clashes in Jugoslavia style. But you optimists don't want to see that. It will cost people on both sides.

 

 

trying to turn this into a debate about Islam (i.e. an ideological superiority contest) when it's not about Islam is repugnant, that is the word for it.

 

I am not seeing it as an exclusively Islam problem but I certainly see some aspects of Islam strongly shaping behaviour and mentality of those people in a way which is fundamentally different from views in Europe. After all, a religion is a part of a culture.

 

Sharia is illegal according to the European court and PEW research (if you consider it to be a relevant source) clearly showed how many Muslims agree with Sharia law and other controversial topics of Islam.

 

And you say that some of the refugees/immigrants are not Muslims - true. But most of them are.

[usagi]

 

I feel like we're at a point where the situation is delicate/explosive and if the fearmongering gets out of hand it will really cost people. everyone, not just the refugees/economic migrants/whatever box you want to put them in to make them seem less worthy of aid.

Yes, the mass-migration policy will definitely cost people. It is just a matter of time before cultures clashes in Jugoslavia style. But you optimists don't want to see that. It will cost people on both sides.

 

 

it will get bad if people like you keep shouting about Islam instead of trying to find common ground with people and learning how to get along. keep building up the clash of civilisations story and it will happen, and then y'all will be like "see! I told you it'd happen!"

 

it's an utterly unproductive and irresponsible tack to take.

 

 

trying to turn this into a debate about Islam (i.e. an ideological superiority contest) when it's not about Islam is repugnant, that is the word for it.

I am not seeing it as an exclusively Islam problem but I certainly see some aspects of Islam strongly shaping behaviour and mentality of those people in a way which is fundamentally different from views in Europe. After all, a religion is a part of a culture.

 

Sharia is illegal according to the European court and PEW research (if you consider it to be a relevant source) clearly showed how many Muslims agree with Sharia law and other controversial topics of Islam.

 

And you say that some of the refugees/immigrants are not Muslims - true. But most of them are.

 

 

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

[LimpyLoo]

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

[LimpyLoo]

Again, if Scientologists tended to have dark skin, would we bite our tongue?

Would we chalk up their use of E-meters to socio-economics?

Would we refrain from criticizing them out of some misguided "cultural sensitivity"?

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills...

 

(and don't get me started on the irony of the 'xenophobia' accusations...)

[chenGOD]

 

An actual grasp of "the problem" Europe has on its shoulders. The population of the EU is 503 million. The number of migrants is estimated by the International Organisation for Migration to be slightly over one million. I'll be generous to your point of view and say that it's 4 million. That's 0.79% of the EU population. Let's say Germany took 1 million of these migrants. That's 1.24% of the German population. Adding these sorts of numbers to the German or EU population will hardly strain the infrastructure in place there (especially Germany, which has a very infrastructure basis).

 

Oh I love this naive math completely ignoring the facts like family reunification policy, strong conservative family values of immigrants, fertility rates of immigrants, tendency to create parallel societies, 90% illiteracy and that the immigration isn't nowhere finished yet.

 

And I haven't even started talking about psychological, psychiatric and neurological factors of people's behaviour in context of multiculturalism, xenophobia, mentality, genetics etc.

 

This naivety is really scary because it points out how uninformed and dangerous for society otherwise intelligent people like you can be. Good intentions, catastrophic results.

 

Stunning.

 

 

Where are you getting your 90% illiteracy rate from? Syria and Iraq had good education systems - literacy rates were very high in those countries. Afghanistan yes not so much, hardly surprising since they've been essentially fighting various foreign powers since the 1970s.

Strong conservative family values are practiced worldwide, not restricted to immigrants nor Muslims. Parallel societies tend to exist in the first generation and integration takes place over a couple of generations. Even if the family reunions completely take place, pushing up the numbers eventually to 14 million, that's 2.7% of Europe's population. What kind of invasion is that? And that's assuming there are no outflows. Are you so insecure in the superiority of "Western" cultural institutions that you think a 3% increase will collapse them completely?

You sound like the Australian PM in the early part of last century, decrying Asian immigration - when the Asian population of Australia at the time was less than 1%. Of course now Australia is ruled by the Chinese Communist Party. If only they would have listened!!

 

I can't take your arguments seriously, because you used Canada in your argument against multiculturalism. You do know multiculturalism is enshrined in our constitution right?

Since I live in a multicultural society, and a very multicultural city - I can perhaps tell you about people's behaviour in the context of multiculturalism. We enjoy good food from all around the world, a diverse range of arts and culture, an increased appreciation of the world around us.

 

Again with the naivety. I tell you what, you go live in a foreign culture (I mean one where you are the minority, they don't speak the same language, the food and societal norms are very different) for 10 years and get back to me about how naive I am about the world and what intermingling of cultures can bring.

 

Isolationist, nationalist tendencies played a large role in leading to World Wars 1 and 2. Increased interactions and engagement on all levels (political, business, cultural, personal) lead to further understanding among different peoples, and with understanding comes less fear. What's truly stunning is people's desires to go back to the "good old days" of isolation and exclusion. I get it, you're scared, the world is changing slightly, you might have to confront some ideas that are different from your own. But don't let that make you throw rationality out the window. Muslims are not going to rape you and burn your house down.

[Guest WNS000]

 

I also love how this whole debate would be put to an end by a skilled neurologist or a psychiatrist. Everything would be so blatant most people wouldn't be able to handle it. So many dreams and ideals would be shattered. The only defence against that would be a philosophical or religious wankery trying to relativize everything. That is the most laughable and sad part of it all.

 

people who try to draw straight lines and rectangular boxes around human behaviour/life in general, using the science! approach, don't have enough life/people experience to understand how the world works. if you believe a neurologist or a psychiatrist would be able to clearly delineate all the various aspects of this complex situation and come up with a clear, 100% ironclad approach that also happens to be the right thing to do, you're deluding yourself.

 

what's more likely to happen is that they would present a bunch of facts that connect some pieces of the puzzle and shed light on only a part of the story, and then these facts would be turned into weapons by you, LimpyAssholeMouth, and whoever is on the whole ideological superiority trip, and the arguing would continue. that's what usually happens.

 

 

So basically, you are saying that science is wrong and you are right because you have "enough life/people experience to understand how the world works". I guess I will rather trust the science.

 

You know, there is not much needed from the science to completely end this debate:

 

- a theory of absence of free will

- altruism as a mere evolutionary tactics for human species to survive

- an absence of morality (because everything is just practical even if you think you do stuff because of moral reasons)

- genetics shaping human behaviour since birth (blind neuroplasticity which is hard to manage the older one is) -> non-sense traditions, customs, dogmatism

- a genetically based religiosity/superstitiousness

- a completely natural xenophobic behaviour needed to survive

- genetically determined intelligence and (in)sanity etc.

- a hard-to-manage (and occasionally deniable) instinct to survive (as yourself or through offspring) as the most basic and selfish motivation of all humans

- etc.

 

This all lead to absence of control in society (and existence) making this whole debate (and the whole existence of human species) pointless.

 

Of course, a somebody who is deeply spiritual/religious and doesn't trust science will find excuses to all of that.

 

I also know I have basically now refuted all of my statements in this thread by this but I always try to keep the discussion "normal" and not let it go into "the-point-of-existence" territory. So I have two modes: the normal one (dealing with ordinary shit every normal person does) and the one I just presented (which is hard to live with). But since neurology and psychiatry finally reached the point of observing some of the fundamental mechanisms of how living beings works it is hard to evade that.

 

Now if you want to relativize everything I have just listed above, please don't as that really leads to nowhere (you still can of course).

 

I am an agnostic and an anti-natalist fyi.

 

/impractical mode

 

Fundamentally different cultures will never make a truly united society. I believe it is absolutely impossible. A first bigger problem will show how brittle "multicultural" societies are because nature doesn't give a fuck about social engineering.

[chenGOD]

 

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

 

 

 

When you make vast sweeping criticisms of Islam, that fail to take into account how many of the leaders of Islam have condemned the acts of the extremists who claim to represent Islam, it's not that you don't like dark-skinned people - it's that you're ignoring reality and placing your own veil over top of the reality.

Are there Muslims that do heinous shit? Yes.

Does that mean the modern interpretation of Islam is fundamentally flawed (I mean beyond the belief common to all religions that a sky person is judging you)? No. It means some Muslims do heinous shit. Some Christians do heinous shit too. Some Buddhists do heinous shit too.

 

Usagi has the right idea - keep shouting about the clash of civilizations and you will make it a reality. It's the Thomas principle.

[goDel]

[doublename]

Norwegian jail cells seem nicer than any place I've ever lived.

[LimpyLoo]

 

 

Limpy, c'mon now. If you were a muslim coming in here and saying you were going to rape people, or have kids with your sister, believed in the death of all white people or saying otherwise weird dumb shit with a 'muslim-y' twinge (for lack of a better word) -- you better bet people would shit all over you and not tip toe around you. This is the same shit racist fucks in the south say about not offending black people. It's an equal opportunity shit-fest in here. Nobody gets shit about things they don't put out. Some posts here have offended me in other threads, I have beliefs that may be ridiculed on here if I said them, we probably all do. It's as big of a deal as we want to make it

 

For those who are on the "bein' super real about muslims and their imminent danger/inbreeding/human rights violations" trip - So do we round em up an burn them or something? What do you suggest should happen or needs to happen in order to fix the things you are concerned about when it comes to this subject? Serious question. Don't politician this one up for me, give us a straight answer in in a concise way that actually presents a solution in your mind. Maybe this can be more of a discussion.

 

 

1)

 

I guess you simply can't criticize Islam without people thinking you don't like dark-skinned people

or that you're Donald Trump or whatever

 

2)

 

c'mon now, mate...I've stated my position multiple times now on how to treat immigrants (let them in, though vet them of course)

as well as how to treat Muslims (treat them literally like anyone else...in every regard)

 

I don't wanna anyone burned, murdered, arrested for thought crimes

I don't wanna ban religion

I just want ideas and criticisms to flow freely, unfettered by political correctness and the like

 

 

Where did you get the impression that I wanted to ban Muslim immigrants or burn them or whatever?

Again, it seems people just see black-and-white on this

if you happen to think certain religious beliefs are problematic (and say so)...you are like "the racists fucks in the south" (ffs)

 

 

 

When you make vast sweeping criticisms of Islam, that fail to take into account how many of the leaders of Islam have condemned the acts of the extremists who claim to represent Islam, it's not that you don't like dark-skinned people - it's that you're ignoring reality and placing your own veil over top of the reality.

Are there Muslims that do heinous shit? Yes.

Does that mean the modern interpretation of Islam is fundamentally flawed (I mean beyond the belief common to all religions that a sky person is judging you)? No. It means some Muslims do heinous shit. Some Christians do heinous shit too. Some Buddhists do heinous shit too.

 

Usagi has the right idea - keep shouting about the clash of civilizations and you will make it a reality. It's the Thomas principle.

 

 

Deny reality, Chen?

Remember when I used to post those Pew polls and you (and everyone else) would promptly explain them away?

[Guest WNS000]

"sharia" has never taken hold in a non-Muslim country and it never will. the only Muslims who rant about trying to implement sharia law in non-Muslim countries are extremists who are talked down and/or rightly ignored by everyone else. however it's a perpetually popular media story though and is always trotted out every now and then.

 

 

Have you freaking read the PEW research on this topic on what actual Muslims actually think all over the world and how many of them? A vocal minority can easily gather support from those who silently agree with them (and you know how easy is to manipulate masses - Nazi Germany).

 

Also: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

Stop saying what you want to believe in and rather use statistics.

[LimpyLoo]

 

also, I love how I get accused of hyperbole in here, too

[LimpyLoo]

in b4 Pew gets called a right-wing think-tank

[LimpyLoo]

here's the Pew data in question: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

 

and for those who are morally confused

here are figures that WOULDN'T be problematic:

 

% who support stoning adulterers: ZERO

% who support death for apostasy: ZERO