Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[may be rude]

experts pointing to mounting indications election was hacked, calling for audit

 

 

 

 

 

Hillary Clinton is being urged by a group of prominent computer scientists and election lawyers to call for a recount in three swing states won by Donald Trump, New York has learned. The group, which includes voting-rights attorney John Bonifaz and J. Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan Center for Computer Security and Society, believes they’ve found persuasive evidence that results in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania may have been manipulated or hacked. The group is so far not speaking on the record about their findings and is focused on lobbying the Clinton team in private.

 

Last Thursday, the activists held a conference call with Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and campaign general counsel Marc Elias to make their case, according to a source briefed on the call. The academics presented findings showing that in Wisconsin, Clinton received 7 percent fewer votes in counties that relied on electronic-voting machines compared with counties that used optical scanners and paper ballots. Based on this statistical analysis, Clinton may have been denied as many as 30,000 votes; she lost Wisconsin by 27,000. While it’s important to note the group has not found proof of hacking or manipulation, they are arguing to the campaign that the suspicious pattern merits an independent review — especially in light of the fact that the Obama White House has accused the Russian government of hacking the Democratic National Committee.

 

According to current tallies, Trump has won 290 Electoral College votes to Clinton’s 232, with Michigan’s 16 votes not apportioned because the race there is still too close to call. It would take overturning the results in both Wisconsin (10 Electoral College votes) and Pennsylvania (20 votes), in addition to winning Michigan’s 16, for Clinton to win the Electoral College. There is also the complicating factor of “faithless electors,” or members of the Electoral College who do not vote according to the popular vote in their states. At least six electoral voters have said they would not vote for Trump, despite the fact that he won their states.

 

ny mag

 

gotta say, this thing has felt fishy to me

Edited November 23, 2016 by very honest

[sheatheman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

the longer you wait the harder it is to unlearn

 

reactive vs. proactive

 

etc.

 

#they want you to be victims so that you will rely on #them

 

#postpartisan #postgovernment

 

the left says racism is the enemy. the right says big govt is the enemy

 

but your true enemy? simple: IT'S YOU

Edited November 23, 2016 by sheathe

[ignatius]

anyone watching south park this season? 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by ignatius

[keanu reeves]

apparently this was played at that alt right conference in dc. quite lol

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4urwmEzzDo

[ignatius]

i'm not really sure how electronic manipulation could happen though? the voting machines aren't networked. there would have to be direct action of some kind.  all the voting machines are different.  

 

i don't know.. i saw some reports about "it's rigged" in the lead up to the election and there were some good answers there for how it would be really really difficult. i don't really remember the details but seems unlikely that w/o direct on site manipulation that votes could be manipulated. 

[joshuatxuk]

anyone watching south park this season?

 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/801095470084784129

Yes. It's decent, the member berries still amuse me too. They really can't outdo the absurdity of real life so that said they are doing a good job.

 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[melancholera]

 

jesus...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

 

welp

 

 

I live in Arkansas, and I can't believe this is anywhere near the national stage. 

[WeAreOceans]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

the longer you wait the harder it is to unlearn

 

reactive vs. proactive

 

etc.

 

#they want you to be victims so that you will rely on #them

 

#postpartisan #postgovernment

 

the left says racism is the enemy. the right says big govt is the enemy

 

but your true enemy? simple: IT'S YOU

 

*shoots self*

[olo]

anyone watching south park this season? 

 

 

Yes. And lol.

[romanticdude]

 

 

jesus...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk

 

welp

 

 

I live in Arkansas, and I can't believe this is anywhere near the national stage. 

 

 

Christ. This would get you into jail here (luckily).

[Guest]

fucking hell

[LimpyLoo]

Thus far

We've dealt with White Supremacists et all

By saying 'shut up, feel bad, and go away'

 

Welp, that didn't work

So maybe let's try to understand their concerns

And talk to the highest potential version of them

Like talking down a shooter by calling him "sir",

showing him respect,

and non-judgementally listening to him describe his experiences

(Which actually works, btw)

[keanu reeves]

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

[LimpyLoo]

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

You actually can though lmao

[Guest]

wat about lmaoists

[doublename]

*

Edited November 23, 2016 by doublename

[auxien]

 

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

You actually can though lmao

Born and raised in the south, among racists of every type imaginable. Talking to them with reason has never changed their positions. Not once.

[LimpyLoo]

part of me feels like it's on them to know why white supremacy is ridiculous and harmful. we shouldn't have to "understand their concerns" if their concerns are basically kill / deport all non white people.

 

what's more pragmatic is to not immediately label every trump supporter and member of the alt right as a white supremacist. they are indirectly, but there is a difference between that and being a full blown nazi who is proud of it. so far i have seen the media mostly refer to this group of people in exaggerated terms that will only radicalise them further. i know this is hardly a groundbreaking sentiment for this thread, but it's something that makes me anxious.

 

so, i'll lend an ear to a trump supporter or disgruntled neckbeard who might just have their heart in the wrong place. but if you'd proudly describe yourself as a white supremacist then i don't think you can reason those people out of that way of thinking and they deserve to feel isolated imo. those people will always remain on the fringes of society just like satanists, anarchists, maoists, whatever esoteric ideological position you can think of.

Well, we didn't listen to them

And now they're in charge

And stronger than ever

So maybe on to another strategy...?

 

 

Their concerns are that they and "their culture" are under attack

Now, usually we think the way to approach these problems is in terms of referencing 'objective truths' and checking the validity of each other's experiences based on those

Well, turns out that's not actually a good starting point

If someone says something genuinely racist

And I call them a 'racist'

That person will just classify me as 'out-group member' and promptly stop (voluntarily) listening to me

 

Read "The White Flight of Derek Black"

How did a famous White Supremacist turn into a radical Egalitarian?

It's not at all a mystery

His 'out-group' (i.e. Jewish and non-white) peers went out of their way to treat him as a human being (who happened to have some silly ideas)

Essentially, they treated him like the person he should/could be, not

like a racist asshole

 

This stuff is not a mystery

 

 

Edit: here https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

Edited November 23, 2016 by LimpyLoo

[apriorion]

 

 

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

You actually can though lmao

Born and raised in the south, among racists of every type imaginable. Talking to them with reason has never changed their positions. Not once.

 

 

Originally from the South, too (not living there any more, thank God), and I can vouch for this. 

[joshuatxuk]

i see what limpy is saying but it's important to distinguish people who are white supremacists and people we want to call white supremacists just for supporting trump and all that jazz.

 

There's also racism as a topical habit versus deep-rooted or closeted racism, the latter is hard to call out and more dangerous. Most white people are not supremacists of even racists, but many do and say things that are essentially racist. I would say most people are ignorant to a large degree in way that's anti-progressive and negative. They are who Trump really exploited.

 

On the flipside I know people, especially co-workers, who say racist stuff all the time in jest, yet are minorities themselves and are politically apathetic or actually fairly liberal. 

 

 

 

 

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

You actually can though lmao

Born and raised in the south, among racists of every type imaginable. Talking to them with reason has never changed their positions. Not once.

 

 

Originally from the South, too (not living there any more, thank God), and I can vouch for this. 

 

 

Most though would not want to be affiliated and would sincerely denouce the KKK or alt-right fascists. That's why we should be shaming the GOP, Trump, etc. for encouraging these people even indirectly. The fact is the Republicans take advantage of racist and/or resentful white voters and have so since 1964. Southern Strategy just morphed. It will eventually ruin their party and force them change but clearly that flame has not been extinguised. I'm hoping Trump and the alt-right shit is the last desperate "victory" for this crap.

 

Also not to downplay the South's historic institutional racism but racism is everywhere including the North and especially the rust belt. I remember seeing far more confederate flags in West Virginia than any other state when I drove from Texas to Pennsylvania back in 2004. Chicago is a Dem stronghold yet more divided by class and race than most urban cities in the South. 

[doublename]

Trump nominates S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley to be U.N. ambassador

 

Haley’s nomination marks Trump’s first female appointment to a cabinet-level post and comes as his advisers are seeking to diversify the incoming administration’s ranks. Haley, a former Trump rival, is generally considered a mainstream Republican, with views on military and national security matters that fall within the GOP’s hawkish mainstream. She has little foreign policy experience...

Haley, 44, who is serving her second term, has worked on trade and labor issues as governor but is considered a foreign policy novice. She met with Trump last Thursday at Trump Tower in New York as part of the round of sessions the president-elect has held with possible nominees.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-nominates-nikki-haley-to-be-un-ambassador/2016/11/23/401f4a7a-b183-11e6-be1c-8cec35b1ad25_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_transitionweb-135am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

[LimpyLoo]

 

 

 

You cant "talk down" racism lmao

You actually can though lmao

Born and raised in the south, among racists of every type imaginable. Talking to them with reason has never changed their positions. Not once.

Originally from the South, too (not living there any more, thank God), and I can vouch for this.

 

I'm not advocating for "reason"

(In fact, that's almost the opposite of what I'm advocating)

 

Carl Rogers figured this out 50 years ago

(And all subsequent empirical findings have continued to point this way)

People's default interpersonal mode is "the evaluative tendency"

i.e. I listen to what you say and evaluate its validity, and treat you according to that evaluation

 

That doesn't actually work on 'in group/out group' disputes

If someone calls you a "libtard cuck" (un-ironically), then you are done listening to them...we all know this because we all encounter it everyday on the internet

 

This is the "reason" that you're saying doesn't work

And I agree, that's why I'm not advocating for that

[apriorion]

jtx, fair enough. I've just been fortunate in that I can surround myself with open-minded, rational friends. As a teenager growing up in the South, I had no choice but to work (full time, through high school and college) many long hours with some fucked-up stupid racist shit. Glad to be away from it, is all. But yes, racism permeates every corner of this Great Land, to be sure. 

[LimpyLoo]

jfc limpy did you even read my post

 

also not 6 months ago you were going on rants about pc culture and people being too sensitive and the political elite and basically a great deal of talking points that many of trump's supporters stick to. and now this is happening. i guess it's like be careful what you wish for?

I'm not advocating for PC-ness

That is literally the opposite of what I'm saying

PC Culture is based on shaming people into line

I'm saying "hey, let's do the opposite because shame doesn't actually work"

[apriorion]

limpy, fair enough, too. 

We might be at a breakdown of civil discourse when we enter these arenas anymore.