ignatius Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I can't get my head around American "nationalists" doing the Nazi salute. Isn't the most American thing, in the history of America, defeating the Nazi? Like, every war movie ever made in America is about killing Nazi's etc.... so how are these people feeling patriotic? They are literally embracing what we destroyed, and thus making us the super power of the world. My head hurts. I really can't wrap my head around it either. Same with the pro-Russian government stuff from the right-wing. Drives me nuts, it's like if you don't support Obama fine but for fuck sake support the president of your country, the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Get the fuck out of here with Putin worship, he's a fucking dictator and thug. It baffles me that talk radio conservatives voice so much skepticism and ire toward the federal government and US foreign policy...these are the same assholes who called anyone who questioned Bush traitors and "freedom haters" or some other nonsense. After WW2 anti-fascism was quickly replaced by anti-communism during the cold war but the KKK and neo-Nazis were still very much fringe groups. Neo-Nazis / white nationalists / etc. were always white trash racists and/or prison gang groups, entities that privileged upper class people would never associate with even if they harbored similar feelings. That's what makes the alt-right stuff so alarming, as does Trumps perpetual non-statements and minimal denouncement of his white nationalist supporters. There's a huge gray area now. Likewise groups like paleoconservatives, militia movement groups, right-wing conspiracy groups, etc. are seemingly being recruited into this more sinister white nationalist sentiment. Fascism has never had the same roots as they do in Europe, instead we had institutional slavery and the Union-Confederate divide but that climaxed in the 1800s and other forms of oppression. Republicans are going to have to address this. They are seemingly reverting to the "the liberal media is lying" excuse and while I think the media is exaggerating a lot the fact remains that Trump has neo-Nazi supporters. and he's well aware of what the alt right is, what breitbart is about and who these people are. there is a thing in his family about genetic superiority that's well documented as something they grew up with so he probably thinks it's just some benign kind of confidence that individuals have abotu themselves to do well in life but he has to know.. i mean. he hired the alt right's hero and is betting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I can't get my head around American "nationalists" doing the Nazi salute. Isn't the most American thing, in the history of America, defeating the Nazi? Like, every war movie ever made in America is about killing Nazi's etc.... so how are these people feeling patriotic? They are literally embracing what we destroyed, and thus making us the super power of the world. My head hurts. I really can't wrap my head around it either. Same with the pro-Russian government stuff from the right-wing. ... I've thought about this. I've realised it makes sense when you realise that these people define themselves not in terms of what they stand for, but what they stand against. they define themselves by what they're opposed to, this 'left' they perceive. so for them to fall in with people who might seem historical enemies suddenly becomes justifiable if it they believe it can strengthen them against their new enemies. it's total cognitive dissonance but it does provide a means for them to gain traction and power, which is all that really matters to them. it's like how Bosnians, Serbs and Croats all allied with each other at some point to try and beat the other. you'd think that ethnic enmities would be die-hard, but it easily switched from being Bosnians+Croats against Serbs to Serbs+Croats against Bosnians and so on, because it made sense in terms of gaining territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 welp, I'm going to buy ammo this weekend. i've been eyeballing shotguns.. i wish my grandparents were alive.. they fought against this shit and watched their friends die fighting it but here it is right in the god damned ronald reagan building. I've got a few guns, but I'm getting a pistol, and a better rifle. Shotgun isn't really relevant for the things I'm worried about. Definitely getting a good stack of ammo though. Even if it means I might be hunting my own food. Going to get a bow too. In Austin Texas over the weekend there was an African-American historical statue unveiled at the Texas Capitol. It was a nice even planned months ahead and for a statue that has been in the works for years. On the other side in a shitty "coincidence" some neo-nazi/white nationalist assholes held a "White Lives Matter" protest. Like awkward KKK rallies that occur with permits they had police protection since a much larger counter-protester movement showed up. Now, in the last few years there have been a fair amount of non-politically aligned open-carry rallies. Folks who insist on carrying assault style rifles show up, act douchey (IMO), and go home. It's ridiculous and often passive aggressive but essentially civil. On the other hand, now that open carry is more and more in vogue and still legal, far more heated events like this one have neo-Nazis showing up with guns out and in sight... In a even more bizarre turn of events, something I never expected to see IRL, far left-wing activists showed up armed. I don't even know what to say...it's like yes I know this country has problems but how the fuck do we end up with so many people talking hyperbolic rhetoric about revolution and war and anti-establishment ire when we are still a relatively stable 1st world county? The irony of seeing people in nice trucks driving to nice homes on nice roads in a major, fast growing and vibrant city like Austin, TX with bumper stickers that say "COME AND TAKE IT" with fucking AR-15s long clip logos on them is beyond absurd. So much more of the world has dealt with actual war, genocide, civil strife, oppression, etc. firsthand and yet manage to work toward progressive social and political goals. Here we are voting in a populist because we had a seemingly lackluster liberal in office for 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I just hope we make it thru these next four years of bullshit without catastrophic damage, whether international or domestic (or global, when you take into account climate change), and that the Dems overhaul their platform with Bernie playing the key role. Supposedly the Bern hasn't ruled out a 2020 run but he'll be 79 years old by then. But of he were to promote and back a candidate like Tulsi Gabbard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriorion Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) I'm so angry right now. I knew this shit was coming, but now that it's here, I'm still shocked and struggling to formulate the right course of action. I think it's time to move away from my mere academic interests in a priori knowledge and metaphysics and logic and start devoting my energy toward addressing this awfulness, and to work to protect me and mine. Good God, y'all. This is straight up apocalyptic shit. I'm sure someone will accuse me of overblown hysteria, but then again, that's all I've heard since the terror I felt when Trump announced his candicacy, and I was laughed at and dismissed, and look at where we are. The ingredients were all there. Shit's going to get serious, guys. And it's already serious enough anyway; it's time to start getting prepared. Edited November 22, 2016 by apriorion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriorion Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 By the way, when's the new BOC going to drop? I could really go for their soothing acknowledgment of the bad, which they always have an uncanny ability to predict. TH was so spot on, yes? Perhaps more than they realized. I presume they're watching this shit and batting down the hatches on their compound or wherever they are nowadays. Time for us to do the same, wherever we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 welp, I'm going to buy ammo this weekend. i've been eyeballing shotguns.. i wish my grandparents were alive.. they fought against this shit and watched their friends die fighting it but here it is right in the god damned ronald reagan building. I've got a few guns, but I'm getting a pistol, and a better rifle. Shotgun isn't really relevant for the things I'm worried about. Definitely getting a good stack of ammo though. Even if it means I might be hunting my own food. Going to get a bow too. In Austin Texas over the weekend there was an African-American historical statue unveiled at the Texas Capitol. It was a nice even planned months ahead and for a statue that has been in the works for years. On the other side in a shitty "coincidence" some neo-nazi/white nationalist assholes held a "White Lives Matter" protest. Like awkward KKK rallies that occur with permits they had police protection since a much larger counter-protester movement showed up. Now, in the last few years there have been a fair amount of non-politically aligned open-carry rallies. Folks who insist on carrying assault style rifles show up, act douchey (IMO), and go home. It's ridiculous and often passive aggressive but essentially civil. On the other hand, now that open carry is more and more in vogue and still legal, far more heated events like this one have neo-Nazis showing up with guns out and in sight... In a even more bizarre turn of events, something I never expected to see IRL, far left-wing activists showed up armed. I don't even know what to say...it's like yes I know this country has problems but how the fuck do we end up with so many people talking hyperbolic rhetoric about revolution and war and anti-establishment ire when we are still a relatively stable 1st world county? The irony of seeing people in nice trucks driving to nice homes on nice roads in a major, fast growing and vibrant city like Austin, TX with bumper stickers that say "COME AND TAKE IT" with fucking AR-15s long clip logos on them is beyond absurd. So much more of the world has dealt with actual war, genocide, civil strife, oppression, etc. firsthand and yet manage to work toward progressive social and political goals. Here we are voting in a populist because we had a seemingly lackluster liberal in office for 8 years. We have reached a tipping/turning point as a species. It's time to cull the unevolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) American Red Brigades, this is mental. edit - Or maybe just Weather Underground II. Edited November 22, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieu Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 it's funny cause I argue with my dad about how socialism is the answer to our problems all the time, and he gets very angry at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 we are entering into a different kind of phase, now. the thing to do is be armed with facts and deposit them wherever they will take. there is a lot of political discourse and it's packed full of op-ed type stuff. when it's emotional and flimsy, the transmission is as likely to transform into the opposite of the original message as it is to maintain it. when you drop facts, they spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 ^ that's my dilemma though, there's so much doublespeak and hyperbole that actual substantive talk about this stuff is it's own echo chamber. people are stubborn. I suppose that's why Trump succeeded - so many Republicans complain about their own party yet keep voting for it, a faux outsider / newcomer like Trump was a shoe-in for their calls to end term limits and oust incumbents. buzzfeed media is just bad as breitbart in operation and ethos even if it's content and bias is far more reasonable it's funny cause I argue with my dad about how socialism is the answer to our problems all the time, and he gets very angry at me. that's why bernie sanders was a no-go to talk about - he's honest and transparent but socialism is such a dirty word in the US - people shoot down the idea of single-payer healthcare solely on the basis of that word and having no idea what it means. American Red Brigades, this is mental.edit - Or maybe just Weather Underground II. ^ the latter maybe...I think it's just antifa folks who were like "fuck it, let's show up with guns too" apparently these guys called themselves Red Guards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 i won't be surprised if there are armed clashes between the polar extremes of white supremacists and leftists who just wanna kill a white supremacists because so sick of their shit. the basic militarization of people pissed off enough to do dumb shit... meanwhile trump will just say "stop it.. just stop it" unless you're in a play on broadway expressing your thoughts to the VP Elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 i won't be surprised if there are armed clashes between the polar extremes of white supremacists and leftists who just wanna kill a white supremacists because so sick of their shit. the basic militarization of people pissed off enough to do dumb shit... meanwhile trump will just say "stop it.. just stop it" unless you're in a play on broadway expressing your thoughts to the VP Elect. yeah the "stop it" thing was a such a cop out and belated plea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 "Excuse my Limpy" as doublename said: I think the best way to conceptualize fascism and nationalism are as a "behavioral immune system" working at the interpersonal, "tribal" and psychosocial levels. Biggest predictor of political conservatism (of any stripe) ? Disgust sensitivity. And we use the same 'disgust circuit' to assess both literal and moral disgust (e.g. Rotten food, and any behavior(s) that exposes one to contamination) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Can you link to an article or something on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keanu reeves Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 your posts trip my "disgust circuit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Can you link to an article or something on this? http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/06/disgust-sensitivity-linked-conservatism http://www.wired.co.uk/article/disgust-breeding-conservatism https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/caveman-politics/201203/are-you-easily-disgusted-you-may-be-conservative Moral psychologist Jonathan Haidt was the one who first stumbled on the link between disgust and political beliefs: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QpUWEkhuqN4 your posts trip my "disgust circuit"Well that's unfortunate for you, innit? Edited November 22, 2016 by LimpyLoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 ^ Thanks Limp ----------- Trump Drops Threat of New Hillary Clinton Investigation WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump repeatedly said Hillary Clinton’s “lies and deception” rivaled Watergate. He called her “Crooked Hillary.” His most rabid fans chanted it over and over again at huge campaign rallies: “Lock her up!” But on Tuesday, Mr. Trump essentially said: “never mind,” signaling that he does not intend to pursue investigations into his rival’s use of a private email server or the financial operations at the Clinton family’s global foundation. http://nyti.ms/2gi4IH5 Hail Victory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 ^ Thanks Limp ----------- Trump Drops Threat of New Hillary Clinton Investigation WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump repeatedly said Hillary Clinton’s “lies and deception” rivaled Watergate. He called her “Crooked Hillary.” His most rabid fans chanted it over and over again at huge campaign rallies: “Lock her up!” But on Tuesday, Mr. Trump essentially said: “never mind,” signaling that he does not intend to pursue investigations into his rival’s use of a private email server or the financial operations at the Clinton family’s global foundation. http://nyti.ms/2gi4IH5 Hail Victory! Confirms Benghazi and the emails have and always will be unfortunate mistakes and nothing less. They have been nothing more than politically motivated witch hunts to prevent HRC from being elected. Trump knows this, he's an asshole but he's not that dumb. Any effort to prosecute her would only make him a fair target for his plethora of legal wrongs. He played his voters to get in office. It's fucked up it worked but I am relieved that it looks like it's finally being dropped as an issue. If the same standards were applied to the Bush admin Powell would be under the same investigation for his use of a private server and W and Cheney would be arrested for international war crimes, perjury and treason. People who think HRC should be in jail over this stuff yet voted for Trump have no moral standard whatsoever. They do not give a shit unless there's a liberal to blame and a right-winger to apologize for and defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 BAH why i do i keep posting lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkeyZ865 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The investigation isn't up to Trump, he's playing nice before he goes into office. Sessions will without a doubt try and pursue her and possibly her husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) https://twitter.com/AshleyAtTimes/status/801112809564033024https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/801129587581325313https://twitter.com/grynbaum/status/801128249208242177NYT reporters are live tweeting their interview with Trump - http://www.nytimes.com/live/trump-at-the-new-york-times-the-tweets/?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news Edited November 22, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 your posts trip my "disgust circuit"Well that's unfortunate for you, innit? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The investigation isn't up to Trump, he's playing nice before he goes into office. Sessions will without a doubt try and pursue her and possibly her husband. Let's hope. The Clinton Foundation's donations have dropped significantly... if it was a purely charitable foundation, I wonder why that would be the case? I think the phrase the kids use these days is "smh" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caze Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 the drop in donations happened in 2015, so nothing to do with the result of the election. probably more to do with the fact that they weren't soliciting donations as much in the build up to the campaign, and obviously were too busy during it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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