2020 US Election

[Rubin Farr]

[Alcofribas]

8 hours ago, may be rude said:

  

 

 

alco i shared a bunch of sources but they weren't unique enough for you?

 

you want more sources, there are a lot. what do you want? 

 

 

trump spread covid

 

 

from june 30, 2020: COVID-19 Is Surging. Donald Trump’s Response Is Shrinking

 

Trump White House made 'deliberate efforts' to undermine Covid response, report says

btw that article links to a report from the House of Reps Select Subcommittee on the Corona Virus, and the link is broken in the article, but i found a working link: https://coronavirus-democrats-oversight.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/coronavirus-democrats-oversight.house.gov/files/SSCCInterimReportDec2021V1.pdf

 

NIH study finds:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9115435/

 

here's something relevant, references a lancet study:

US could have averted 40% of Covid deaths, says panel examining Trump's policies

 

that's separate other studies that arrived at similar conclusions. like, here's an article about some separate research from brookings

U.S. COVID response could have avoided hundreds of thousands of deaths: research

 

 

trump spent a lot of time messaging about how mail-in ballots would invite fraud, though it was always easily debunked

 

 

npr, june 22, 2020:

FACT CHECK: Trump Spreads Unfounded Claims About Voting By Mail

 

npr, august 28, 2020:

Trump Keeps Pushing Debunked Mail-In Voting Claims

 

nyt, sept 28, 2020:

Trump Is Pushing a False Argument on Vote-by-Mail Fraud. Here Are the Facts.

 

 

trump tried a coup 

 

 

THE UNITED STATES V. DONALD J. TRUMP, defendant - federal indictment of trump for coup

because of the immunity ruling, one area of evidence was removed, the part dealing with abuse of doj, as part of the coup. it's important to understand that the coup was a hub-and-spoke conspiracy with around a half dozen components:

• spreading the lie
• false slates of electors (giuliani was orchestrating)
• pressuring state officials (the raffensperger call - threatening him with federal legal action)
• misusing DOJ to mislead state officials (the jeffrey clark letter they tried to fire the Acting Attorney General so they could send to states)
• pressuring pence to reject electors for some states (sending the election to the house of reps for a vote by state delegations by which the republicans had the majority)
• january 6th

anyway, this is the revised indictment and it still includes the same charges and counts, despite removing the doj set of evidence.

there are multiple counts per crime, but there are 4 crimes he's charged with, in that indictment:

• conspiracy to defraud the united states - this is him being charged with lying to the public
• conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding
• obstruction of official proceeding
• conspiracy against rights - this is him being charged for interfering with our right to elect the president

 

here's the jeff clark letter

 

here's the raffensperger call

 

House January 6th Committee investigation hearings - PBS youtube playlist of all, full hearings

 

he was indicted for his coup in a separate indictment in the state of georgia. here's that indictment.

 

recently it was revealed that the arizona grand jury wanted to indict trump for his involvement in the elector scheme in the state of arizona. they only didn't because of a norm to defer to the feds when investigating the same thing:

Arizona prosecutors asked grand jurors not to indict Trump in state’s fake electors case

i'm not going to consult all your links, obviously (one of them is the entire jan 6th hearing which is like more than 30 hours of video lol) but glancing at them, i'm just seeing very well-established information about:

1. trump's failure to do anything about covid lead to thousands of preventable deaths

2. trump consistently lied about mail-in ballots, just as he lied about in person voting when he lost the pop. election in 2016

3. jan 6 coup attempt

i think everyone itt agrees with these things, there's nothing controversial about this stuff. but you're making a "connection" between this that others are not seeing and which you do not have any evidence of. why should anyone believe you? without any evidence, this idea that trump spread covid as a tactic to accomplish a coup in collaboration with putin seriously requires some kind of evidence. otherwise, all these things are explained rather easily by the facts as we know them:

trump spread covid bc he's a piece of shit, a failure who never cared about the lives of americans. he lied about ballots bc he's a piece of shit liar and since he did nothing about covid there were very severe consequences for him that would likely cost him the election. when he finally lost he and his corrupt accomplices that occupy positions of power across this country tried to get what they want bc they enjoyed the the orgy of trump's rule. 

putin loves all of this and russia does what it can to urge america to keep pulling itself apart at the seams. they love trump, how could they not? he's horrible for the country lol

imo this is all very status quo american corruption. it's on steroids bc of how much of a clownish figure trump is, but none of this requires the biological warfare against citizens in collaboration with putin bc trump was compromised narrative. 

 

[zero]

11 hours ago, may be rude said:

 

it's right there for anyone to see. it's important that i describe it so others can look into it and think about this. it's very concerning. it's crazy concerning, absolutely nightmarish to think about the scenario of trump being compromised by putin and spreading covid to set the stage for a coup. it's alarming that so, so many data points present this consistent picture. i laid out a decently compelling case, i think. i appreciate people bearing with me, and helping me to put it down, here. page 305 is a good starting point

for the record - I do not believe that trump himself intentionally wanted to spread covid in order to set the stage for a potential coup attempt. IMO planning on that level is beyond the range of his mental capabilities.

trump reacts to whatever is put in front of him. he chases the ball. he grifts for personal gain. a classic "sales guy." that's about it with him. he is not out to intentionally kill hundreds of thousands of people. that's sorta why he idolizes guys like Putin or KJU, because they do lack the human empathy gene and don't give a fuck about killing humans on a mass scale. maybe in some dark corner of his mind he wishes he could be like that, but he can't. he's an NYC con man, not some dictatorial antisocial mass murderer.

saying Putin somehow had a hand in influencing donnie's decision making process is a possibility. Putin's been hanging over his head the entire time he's been in the political sphere. but trying to prove what exactly Putin has had direct influence over has been a quagmire, and has led to overarching conspiracy theories - such as the one you seem to be pushing out here. even if this covid/coup conspiracy thing is proven somehow (in the US courts?), what good is it going to do if half the fucking country is still going to vote for the guy?

look man, I'm as anti-trump as you are. I want him to be gone from all our lives. I am sick of all the stupid shit he says. I'm still mind blown that millions of people in this country have been brainwashed by the out in the open bullshit he makes up, then changes, time and time again. BUT holding him accountable to what he's done since 2016 seems to be a losing, time wasting battle. "it'd be nice" if he was locked up for crimes against humanity he's committed, but at this point it's fairly safe to say that won't ever happen. he'll never end up in an orange jump suit. the best case here is that he loses this election, and the millions of people brainwashed currently finally move on from him.

 

[auxien]

thank y’all for keeping at this ludicrous assertion from mr. rude, as i’ve lost the energy/time to the last week.

 

Edited September 20 by auxien

[zazen]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:49 AM, Hail Sagan said:

 

[decibal cooper]

[may be rude]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:50 AM, Alcofribas said:

i'm not going to consult all your links, obviously (one of them is the entire jan 6th hearing which is like more than 30 hours of video lol) but glancing at them, i'm just seeing very well-established information about:

1. trump's failure to do anything about covid lead to thousands of preventable deaths

2. trump consistently lied about mail-in ballots, just as he lied about in person voting when he lost the pop. election in 2016

3. jan 6 coup attempt

yeah those were the 3 things i was providing sources for, but i phrase them:

• trump spread covid
• trump spent a lot of time messaging about how mail-in ballots would invite fraud, though it was always easily debunked
• trump tried a coup  

i organized the list of sources into 3 sections, and labeled each section. 

those are 3 components of one argument, that argues trump spread covid to set the stage for his coup.

those 3 facts are widely established in the public record, and are right in front of everyone's eyes. i'm trying to help people realize that the theory looks true, because it's hard for people to believe, so i pointed out one very accessible argument. the argument goes:

if trump's actions strangely resulted in spreading covid significantly more than necessary, and he strangely spent a lot of time during campaign season spreading misinformation about mail-ins being fraud, and he then committed a coup, using false fraud narratives, then it is likely that he deliberately spread covid intentionally for the purpose of setting the stage for his coup. 

this is a logical argument with 3 premises and a conclusion, and the 3 premises are well supported in the public record. it's an inductive argument, not deductive, which means that the conclusion is not certain. the premises make the conclusion likely to be true. this is just one argument. i've highlighted this one because it's easy to establish and it's based on information people are already somewhat familiar with.

there are other arguments. 

since you like sources so much, here's an article that lays out another argument, for why trump was deliberately spreading covid. https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-s-covid-lies-were-tragedy-were-they-also-crime-n1255849

chris hayes was covering the story of how trump was "objectively pro-covid," as he often put it, during 2020. here's a piece from december 2020 about that, which makes another argument. https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-we-want-them-infected-chris-hayes-on-emails-revealing-truth-of-trump-covid-plan-97881669925 

those 2 just argue that trump was interested in spreading covid. they don't state the motive that it was for his coup. but once you establish he wanted to spread covid, it's kind of obvious that it must have been for that reason.

do you feel like you're dunking on me or something? because you're posting on watmm demanding that i prepare for you a history-changing, undeniably conclusive proof that would cost 2 million dollars for a legal team to put together. i've done a lot of work preparing information here and you've been moving goal posts and being snide. i maybe shouldn't even be dignifying or encouraging you at this point. but you seem to be trying to engage with the arguments logically to an extent, which is nice, despite demonstrating poor reading comprehension and being a cunt on a high horse for some reason (offended i would call out the authoritarian we're dealing with over here? wtf?).

do you think i like laying this out here? i'm describing what i observed. i was in a unique position to observe it. i'm not the only one who observed it. i don't like having to post this. 

On 9/20/2024 at 1:07 PM, auxien said:

thank y’all for keeping at this ludicrous assertion from mr. rude, as i’ve lost the energy/time to the last week.

 

it's not ludicrous. to me, it's ludicrous to think the theory is not correct. it's ridiculous to believe he was not deliberately setting the stage to contest the election, having seen what i've seen. 

On 9/20/2024 at 11:50 AM, Alcofribas said:

you're making a "connection" between this that others are not seeing and which you do not have any evidence of.

people have this weird troll tick where they say "you do not have any evidence" when actually there is a lot of evidence. like do you know what the word means? a piece of evidence is one fact. it's distinct from a conclusive proof. i may end up forming a conclusive proof for you cunts, i'm not saying i don't have one in me.

On 9/20/2024 at 11:50 AM, Alcofribas said:

trump spread covid bc he's a piece of shit, a failure who never cared about the lives of americans

yeah and also hey we know he was setting the stage to contest an election. he was doing that, we see it in the preemptive mail-in narrative. why make excuses for him? 

it is preposterous to imagine trump, in 2020, while spreading covid, and setting the stage to contest the election based on mail-ins, in his mind wasn't aware that his actions to spread covid served his purpose to set the stage to contest the election. 

people don't want to accept this theory i'm describing because it's so fucked up but i owe it to people to let them know that this is what it looked like (and still looks like). i am at a point where i cannot take seriously the position that the theory is false. i like when posters try to disprove the theory because i've been living with this for years and it's nice to hear the counterarguments. but it just looks like the theory is correct.

On 9/20/2024 at 12:17 PM, zero said:

saying Putin somehow had a hand in influencing donnie's decision making process is a possibility. Putin's been hanging over his head the entire time he's been in the political sphere.

yes. one of the disturbing things is how many of trump's moves looked like putin moves.

Edited Wednesday at 04:58 AM by may be rude

[may be rude]

20 hours ago, zero said:

trump reacts to whatever is put in front of him. he chases the ball.

this is the best counterargument and i appreciate you guys giving me your takes. 

20 hours ago, zero said:

even if this covid/coup conspiracy thing is proven somehow (in the US courts?), what good is it going to do if half the fucking country is still going to vote for the guy?

this may never be proven conclusively, in public, or maybe it will come out decades after the fact. intelligence stuff is kept under wraps for multiple reasons. regarding the putin stuff.

maybe a class action lawsuit will happen to, suing trump for deliberately spreading covid. maybe not. there may be an immunity protection.

maybe congress would look into it and establish that he spread covid to set the stage for his coup, but i don't think they would because of the toxic info atmosphere. 

not sure how statute of limitations stuff plays out. now his defense could argue immunity for a criminal case.

yes, the information situation is a mess, and it is very significant to global politics. we are tasked with sorting out the mess, no humans have been here before. 

it's interesting how we must tend to each-other, as people's realities diverge. the solution is sociological. 

i'm not out here pushing for him to face the music in a criminal or civil case. i'm spreading info on this because the election is coming up and this is important and the time is right to talk about it. in political persuasion, it's important to be honest. say what you really think is important. say why you think the thing is true. 

Edited September 21 by may be rude

[Alcofribas]

6 hours ago, may be rude said:

do you feel like you're dunking on me or something? because you're posting on watmm demanding that i prepare for you a history-changing, undeniably conclusive proof that would cost 2 million dollars for a legal team to put together. i've done a lot of work preparing information here and you've been moving goal posts and being snide. i maybe shouldn't even be dignifying or encouraging you at this point. but you seem to be trying to engage with the arguments logically to an extent, which is nice, despite demonstrating poor reading comprehension and being a cunt on a high horse for some reason (offended i would call out the authoritarian we're dealing with over here? wtf?).

an interesting thing about your posts itt is that you consistently claim that it's all about "good facts" and the right information, that one of the principle weapons with which we can combat the disinformation and rightwing propaganda is with robust, persuasive arguments. but itt you are incapable of having normal discussions with other liberals and leftists. how are you going to persuade fascists and rightwingers, man? 

tbh i feel like i've treated you pretty fairly bc i don't want to scare you away. i like having weirdos on this forum, it's fun to open threads and just see people go off on their trips like you do. i think watmm is a great place to post conspiracies and stuff bc we're just shooting the shit amongst ourselves, we should be free here to explore strange ideas or confessing to wolf-outs and such. but i've definitely been a cunt on this forum before and if you feel i've done that to you, my apologies m9. 

[Rubin Farr]

 

[EdamAnchorman]

Oh so it's OK to mess with the electoral college if it suits your needs. Fucking low-life hypocrites.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-trump-electoral-college-nebraska-tweak-2024-9

Quote

With less than two months to go before the 2024 election, top Republicans and allies of former President Donald Trump are pushing for a last-minute change to the Electoral College.

In almost every state, all of the state's electors vote for the candidate who wins the most votes in that state, which is known as "winner-take-all." But that's not the case in Nebraska, where three of the state's five electors vote according to the result of their congressional districts.

Several polls have found Harris leading in the 2nd District this year, and Republicans have been looking to avoid a repeat of 2020. On Wednesday, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina skipped Senate votes to travel to Lincoln, Nebraska's capital, where he lobbied state lawmakers to switch the state to winner-take-all in the final weeks before the election.

[Rubin Farr]

 

[ignatius]

6 hours ago, EdamAnchorman said:

Oh so it's OK to mess with the electoral college if it suits your needs. Fucking low-life hypocrites.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-trump-electoral-college-nebraska-tweak-2024-9

always has been... 

here's the quote... 

“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.”
― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

also.. ay.. 

Edited Sunday at 07:45 PM by ignatius

[Rubin Farr]

How low can you go  

[ignatius]

On 9/22/2024 at 4:45 AM, Rubin Farr said:

 

[Rubin Farr]

"Since they wouldn't put my face on our money, I put my face on my own money."

[ignatius]

24 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

"Since they wouldn't put my face on our money, I put my face on my own money."

$30 coin for $100.  king of grifters.

Edited Tuesday at 02:50 PM by ignatius

[cern]

And you can only buy red MAGA hats for the Trump coins 

What good deal 

[perunamuusi]

Trump is the perfect example of why Abortion should be legal.

[ignatius]

9 minutes ago, perunamuusi said:

Trump is the perfect example of why Abortion should be legal.

his crypto thing Defi liberty financial or whatever it's called.. i'm sure will be just fine and not a grift. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/crypto/trump-crypto-event-world-liberty-financial-rcna171407

Over the course of Trump’s 40-minute fireside chat, he talked about how he “wasn’t overly interested” in crypto initially. But that changed, he said, when sales of his Trump trademarked nonfungible token collections were paid for with crypto. “I think my children opened my eyes more than anything else.”

[Rubin Farr]

Judge Eileen Cannon presiding over the attempted assassination trial of Ryan Wesley Routh, in Florida.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/24/ryan-routh-aileen-cannon-charged-00180836

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

Judge Eileen Cannon presiding over the attempted assassination trial of Ryan Wesley Routh, in Florida.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/24/ryan-routh-aileen-cannon-charged-00180836

confirmed.. the universe is indeed some kind of consciousness that's been roofied and is about to pass out after eating half a bag of groceries from a convenience store. 

[ignatius]

 

[ignatius]

[Rubin Farr]