Marxist thought

[zlemflolia]

15 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

Marxism is an attractive idea to teenagers who think they're overflowing with compassion for every living being, but sadly they don't have enough experience of the nature of the human.

They are people who believe Hollywood movies display the same calibre of political interrogation as academic literature. 

They see things in binaries; people think like them, or people are evil and selfish. There's no mid-ground. They refuse to engage in dialogue, because they view independent thought and ideas that stray from the ideology as harmful. 

They believe people that don't share their view are wilfully hateful. They 'other' groups of people. 

Marxism is for people who think that in life there is either good or evil, right or wrong, equal or unequal. They fail to see nuances; the greys in life. 

They fail to see the authoritarianism and totalitarianism of their own approach. They believe that their violence and oppression is all for the greater good.

Marxism is a totalitarian ideal that punishes dissent. Yet it believes it's the great equaliser. It gives total power to those who control the system, but calls its critics oppressors.

 

Signed, 

Someone who grew up in a militarised socialist dictatorship.

care to tell which "militarized socialist dictatorship" this is

your characterizations are laughable

[Thu Zaw]

4 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

care to tell which "militarized socialist dictatorship" this is

your characterizations are laughable

Yes. I grew up in Burma/Myanmar.

[zlemflolia]

9 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

Yes. I grew up in Burma/Myanmar.

And in what way is Myanmar socialist?

[Silent Member]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Socialist_Programme_Party

[zkom]

7 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

beautiful, cuba is migrating towards free and open source software, in other words taking direct control of their own means of production in the realm of software, and eliminating dependencies on capitalist software.  you love to see it

You do realize that a huge amount of open source software is developed in private companies or organizations funded by private companies? The big open source software is not some kind of charity but business.

For example Linux Foundation is funded by private companies. The platinum members each pay $500k per year and include Google, AT&T, Cisco, Fujitsu, Hitachi, Huawei, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, Oracle, Qualcomm, Samsung, Facebook and VMware. This is what pays the salaries for people like Linus Torvalds, Greg Kroah-Hartman, and Shuah Khan. In exchange the companies get to do "strategic guidance" on the OSS projects and get mentoring from the foundation for their own developers. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/join/#benefits

So yeah, Cuba is going to be using software funded and directed by companies like Google and Facebook, much socialism.

 

[chenGOD]

@cyanobacteriaHow is pointing out that Navalny is in prison for exposing Putin's corruption and graft "shilling" for him? I'm not saying Navlny is a great guy, it's simply an easy example of Putin's corrupt state.

Sergei Magnitsky, Khodorkovsky, Ilya Yashin, Boris Nemtsov...all have one thing in common with Navalny, and it's not Russian nationalism.

You bringing up Russia as an example of where capitalism has failed when I'm talking about well regulated market economies is peak trolling though.

[Braintree]

7 hours ago, Silent Member said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Socialist_Programme_Party

Stop calling dictatorships "socialist."

Quote

The Burma Socialist Programme Party (BSPP)^{[n 1]} was Burma's ruling party from 1962 to 1988 and sole legal party from 1964 to 1988. Party chairman Ne Win overthrew Burma's democratically elected government in a coup d'état on 2 March 1962. For the next 26 years, the BSPP governed Burma under a totalitarian military dictatorship, until mass protests in 1988 pressured party officials to adopt a multi-party system.

 

[Alcofribas]

Marxism is for teens. lol wtf is this thread man

[zlemflolia]

8 hours ago, zkom said:

You do realize that a huge amount of open source software is developed in private companies or organizations funded by private companies? The big open source software is not some kind of charity but business.

For example Linux Foundation is funded by private companies. The platinum members each pay $500k per year and include Google, AT&T, Cisco, Fujitsu, Hitachi, Huawei, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, Oracle, Qualcomm, Samsung, Facebook and VMware. This is what pays the salaries for people like Linus Torvalds, Greg Kroah-Hartman, and Shuah Khan. In exchange the companies get to do "strategic guidance" on the OSS projects and get mentoring from the foundation for their own developers. https://www.linuxfoundation.org/join/#benefits

So yeah, Cuba is going to be using software funded and directed by companies like Google and Facebook, much socialism.

 

Developers like Linus being paid to continue to work on vital open source infrastructure doesn't mean the software is proprietary.  Not sure what your objection is here.  Moving to open source infrastructure lets them theoretically become completely isolated with no contact and still control their infrastructure and be capable of updating it.  Do you not understand the benefits of open source software over proprietary closed source black boxes?

[zlemflolia]

3 hours ago, chenGOD said:

@cyanobacteriaHow is pointing out that Navalny is in prison for exposing Putin's corruption and graft "shilling" for him? I'm not saying Navlny is a great guy, it's simply an easy example of Putin's corrupt state.

Sergei Magnitsky, Khodorkovsky, Ilya Yashin, Boris Nemtsov...all have one thing in common with Navalny, and it's not Russian nationalism.

You bringing up Russia as an example of where capitalism has failed when I'm talking about well regulated market economies is peak trolling though.

yes let's judge capitalism by its massive success stories.  where are they?

russia is the greatest example of a post-socialist state which had a dramatic quality of life decrease upon the introduction of capitalism.  the failures of russia are inherent to capitalism and simply more visible and critiqued in the west.  there is no such thing as well-regulated capitalism

[zkom]

23 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

Developers like Linus being paid to continue to work on vital open source infrastructure doesn't mean the software is proprietary.  Not sure what your objection is here.  Moving to open source infrastructure lets them theoretically become completely isolated with no contact and still control their infrastructure and be capable of updating it.  Do you not understand the benefits of open source software over proprietary closed source black boxes?

I know the benefits and I'm a software developer working with open source software myself. Just that most people seem to have the misconception that OSS is not a business when it's a fucking huge business and it's not done for some common good but actually benefits the businesses investing in it. Anyway, yes, I rather work with OSS than closed systems and governments in general should adopt more OSS.

I'm wondering what the alternative would have been to Cuba actually? I mean they are in an embargo and American companies can't provide them with software anyway? Cuba respects the US copyrights by the Berne Convetion so not sure if they could have just straight up pirated the commercial software?

Spoiler

I mean Cuba respects the US copyrights in name but I visited a Cuban McDonalds rip off back when I was there and it was hilarious.

Spoiler

Actually the food was better than in the western McDonald's and instead of Coca-Cola they had freshly squeezed juice.. So, not a bad experience.

 

 

[zero]

1 hour ago, Alcofribas said:

Marxism is for teens. lol wtf is this thread man

just you wait. someone told me that if this thread gets to 100 pages, then the revolution will begin. not sure who tho. probably joyrex.

[Braintree]

10 hours ago, Thu Zaw said:

Marxism is an attractive idea to teenagers who think they're overflowing with compassion for every living being, but sadly they don't have enough experience of the nature of the human.

They are people who believe Hollywood movies display the same calibre of political interrogation as academic literature. 

They see things in binaries; people think like them, or people are evil and selfish. There's no mid-ground. They refuse to engage in dialogue, because they view independent thought and ideas that stray from the ideology as harmful. 

They believe people that don't share their view are wilfully hateful. They 'other' groups of people. 

Marxism is for people who think that in life there is either good or evil, right or wrong, equal or unequal. They fail to see nuances; the greys in life. 

They fail to see the authoritarianism and totalitarianism of their own approach. They believe that their violence and oppression is all for the greater good.

Marxism is a totalitarian ideal that punishes dissent. Yet it believes it's the great equaliser. It gives total power to those who control the system, but calls its critics oppressors.

 

Signed, 

Someone who grew up in a militarised socialist dictatorship.

Democracy is an essential component of Socialism. You didn't grow up in a socialist country. You grew up in a dictatorship.

"Socialist Dictatorship" is like saying I grew up in a "Democratic Monarchy."

:::drink fire-water:::

[zlemflolia]

40 minutes ago, zkom said:

I know the benefits and I'm a software developer working with open source software myself. Just that most people seem to have the misconception that OSS is not a business when it's a fucking huge business and it's not done for some common good but actually benefits the businesses investing in it. Anyway, yes, I rather work with OSS than closed systems and governments in general should adopt more OSS.

I'm wondering what the alternative would have been to Cuba actually? I mean they are in an embargo and American companies can't provide them with software anyway? Cuba respects the US copyrights by the Berne Convetion so not sure if they could have just straight up pirated the commercial software?

  Reveal hidden contents

I mean Cuba respects the US copyrights in name but I visited a Cuban McDonalds rip off back when I was there and it was hilarious.

  Reveal hidden contents

Actually the food was better than in the western McDonald's and instead of Coca-Cola they had freshly squeezed juice.. So, not a bad experience.

 

 

I'm well aware of the critiques of OSS that is why I support FOSS not OSS.

It looks like as far back as 2009 they were launching a Linux distro, this article says they were using Windows

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-software/cuba-launches-own-linux-variant-to-counter-u-s-idUSTRE51A77S20090211

[Alcofribas]

*filing all marxist scholarship under YA*

[Braintree]

Teens these days only care about beards and democratizing their workforce.

[Thu Zaw]

35 minutes ago, Braintree said:

 

"Socialist Dictatorship" is like saying I grew up in a "Democratic Monarchy."

 

Democratic Monarchy ...like the UK, Netherlands, Spain, Denmark....?

Marxism is an entirely undemocratic ideology. 

[Braintree]

Just now, Thu Zaw said:

Democratic Monarchy ...like the UK, Netherlands, Spain, Denmark....?

Marxism is an entirely undemocratic ideology. 

What you're thinking of is a constitutional monarchy.

If you think Democracy has nothing to do with Socialism then you need to do some reading, my friend.

[Thu Zaw]

4 minutes ago, Braintree said:

What you're thinking of is a constitutional monarchy.

If you think Democracy has nothing to do with Socialism then you need to do some reading, my friend.

We risk going in circles of petty dispute. I've presented my points. They've been well-received by others. I'm going to end this discussion now. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Thu Zaw

[Braintree]

1 minute ago, Thu Zaw said:

We risk going in circles of petty dispute. I've presented my points. They've been well-received by others. I'm going to end this discussion now. 

Yes you've demonstrated you don't know what socialism is. Please fuck off.

[zlemflolia]

41 minutes ago, Thu Zaw said:

We risk going in circles of petty dispute. I've presented my points. They've been well-received by others. I'm going to end this discussion now. 

 

you seem to be against "authoritarianism" (a word I don't like) for clear reasons given your life experience.  what are your thoughts on anarcho-communism and other libertarian strains of socialism?  personally I lately feel that they are utopian and missing the value of the state and authority in thwarting external capitalist countries manipulating or attempting war with them, and some level of authority is required.  there's a reason socialist countries take the measures they do

Edited May 7, 2021 by cyanobacteria

[chenGOD]

2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

yes let's judge capitalism by its massive success stories.  where are they?

All the ones I linked in other posts.

2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

russia is the greatest example of a post-socialist state which had a dramatic quality of life decrease upon the introduction of capitalism.

Russia's demographic collapse was well underway in the 70s. Fast privatization with little oversight or regulation is primarily to blame for the slow recovery, including good doses of corruption ensuring that infrastructure and institutions were never fully developed.

2 hours ago, cyanobacteria said:

there is no such thing as well-regulated capitalism

except for all the examples I listed.

[zlemflolia]

5 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

All the ones I linked in other posts.

Russia's demographic collapse was well underway in the 70s. Fast privatization with little oversight or regulation is primarily to blame for the slow recovery, including good doses of corruption ensuring that infrastructure and institutions were never fully developed.

except for all the examples I listed.

i just went back 5 pages and didnt find your list

[chenGOD]

1 hour ago, Braintree said:

Democracy is an essential component of Socialism.

Democracy is an essential component of some forms of socialism. The definition at the wiki portal is broad, but useful.

The problem is that basically all attempts at establish communist countries have turned into dictatorships to date.

 

I think you being so dismissive of a person's lived experience is pretty unkind. Myanmar is a beautiful country that has gone through some very horrible experiences for basically all of the 20th century. Ne Win may have been genuinely trying to implement a Socialist government through the Burmese Way to Socialism, but he found out that nationalizing industry and withdrawing from the global economy led to serious economic hardships, and his response was to double down as well as repress demonstration. The military rule post-independence was one full of corruption and disastrous decision making based on ego, superstition, and nationalism. If that's his or her lived experience with socialism, that's what it is with them, much how zeff's lived experience with American capitalism defines his relationship with it.

9 minutes ago, cyanobacteria said:

i just went back 5 pages and didnt find your list

Basically all of the OECD countries, excluding America. It's there, keep looking. Oh wait, you'll never find it because you don't want to admit that it can exist.

[zlemflolia]

9 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

much how zeff's lived experience with American capitalism defines his relationship with it.

not really, my experiences with capitalism is pretty great because i am a white privileged tech worker. it's my observations of others and my understanding of how capitalism works that make me oppose it.  my personal gripes with capitalism are petty and relate to worker alienation and observations of how capitalism intentionally holds back technological progress in favor of profit, in my workplace and throughout the entire industry

9 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Basically all of the OECD countries, excluding America. It's there, keep looking. Oh wait, you'll never find it because you don't want to admit that it can exist.

so you just don't care about their externalities on colonized countries excluded from their group?

pretty much just a map of white countries minus those with socialist histories, interesting

Edited May 7, 2021 by cyanobacteria