ALIEN / PROMETHEUS / COVENANT - SPOILERS INBOUND!!

[syd syside]

For those that haven't read this post-release Lindelof interview :

 

There are a few loose ends left at the end of the film, was that part of the writing process, or the re-writes?

 

One man’s loose end is another man’s ambiguity and Ridley was very interesting in ambiguity. As I said we were talking about 2001 a lot and Ridley is a huge Kubrick fan and he’s still trying to make sense of the end of 2001 and he would say ‘Explain to me the end of 2001′ and ‘is it not some kind of rebirth metaphor?’ and I would agree but 2001 is far more interesting to me than 2010 which spells in out explicitly. So we have to work out if a sci-fi film is going to delve into the question of where do we come from and why has God turned against me? How much do we let people find out for themselves? How much room should there be for future films? We’ve seen the film which is about ‘ok, we’ve unleashed this creature’ and Prometheus is more about who made us, why did they make us and now this question of why do they want to destroy us? Is it at arbitrary as being done with this petri dish, or did we do something to deserve it. This is the fundamental question that we ask ourselves especially when something bad befalls us. This idea of fundamental judgement weigh in. All these questions were on the table and yes, there were drafts with more specifically spelled out versions. Ridley’s instinct was to pull back and I’d say ‘I’m still eating shit a year on from the end of Lost where we didn’t directly spell everything out – are you sure you want to do this?’ He would rather have had people fighting against it and not know then spell it out. I know its obnoxious to say that you should see the movie a couple of times to really appreciate it but that is how the movie was designed – things that seem throwaway, for example when they do the carbon dating of the dead Engineer and realise that he’s been dead for two thousand years and you think ‘if two thousand years ago The Engineers decided to wipe us out what happened back then?’ Is there any correlation between what was happening on the Earth two thousand years ago and this decision? Could a sequel start in that time period and begin to contextualize what we did to piss these beings off?

 

But you and Ridley know, in your mind, exactly what is happening here?

 

Yeah, and if enough people go and see the movie and if there’s a real sense of people wanting there to be another one then the second movie would clearly answer the question of what did we do to deserve this. And always the question is that if we want to explain this how do we do it in a dramatic way? It won’t be two people siting in a room with The Engineers sitting up and say ‘Ok, well here’s what you did to piss me off…’ I was always driven by the idea that Shaw was the only believer in the crew and that it feels outdated in 2093, it feels old fashioned – especially as she’s embracing this fundamental scientific knowledge, and she gets very excited when she learns that she was created by these beings as opposed to some supernatural deity but he doesn’t make her shed her faith, it only instills it. So, at the end of this journey and she’s only person who made it through you ask yourself why was that? Was God protecting her as the only true believer? The entire point of being alive is to ask these questions and search for some meaning so Ridley wanted the film to end with Shaw announcing that she was still searching.

 

David is perhaps the strongest character in the crew, can you talk about the process of writing for him?

 

David was clearly the most fun to write, robots are fun to write as they’re not burdened by the same emotional truths of irrationalities that humans are. You have to work out who programmed them and what did they program them to do. Then you get into the interesting area of how capable is a robot of original thought? I looked at David through the prism of a five year old, I have a five year old and if he loves a movie then he watches it over and over again, and we’ve seen robots who have read everything but I thought why not have a robot who loves Lawrence of Arabia and just watches it over and over? And in the same way as you’d mod an iPhone if there were ten thousand Michael Fassbenders out there wouldn’t you want them to have their own individuality? This one wants to dye his hair like Lawrence. Also the notion of Pinocchio robots as I call them, robots that want to be human, is used up. Why would a robot want to be human? I think it’s more interesting if you have a robot who didn’t understand humans, or who considers emotions a huge pain in the ass. Ultimately David’s purpose in the movie was to comment on the folly of the mission as a whole – these humans are seeking out their creators and this robot is hanging out with his creators and, frankly, he’s not impressed… A lot of it came from Michael’s performance, the dry wit… I could write an entire movie of David going off on his adventures.

[kokoon]

saw the movie (with gaarg), was deeply disappointed. i haven't read much about it beforehand, didn't watch the trailer, ... but i had very low expectations anyway (mainly because of what read in the movies thread on here)

 

and still i think the movie was pretty bad, the first half or so is kinda okay (some shots were truly magnificent), but it's just worse and worse from there on. the last 10 minutes or so are a disaster. what were they thinking.

 

also, i'm thinking - maybe the jockeys aren't the "engineers", maybe they were created by the same "engineers" race as humans were (DNAs match and all).

maybe xenomorphs are "engineers".

 

blah. such great potential. wasted. i could list all the things that bothered me but i don't think it's necessary.

[GORDO]

lol so he openly admits they just made shitty so to open the possibility for a second movie.

 

also it's funny how much ridley and damon blame eachother,

[awepittance]

I love how this film is bringing out the troll in almost everyone I respect at watmm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

last post

 

yeah i was wondering why Compson just keeps copying and pasting blocks of texts no one is reading, clever trolling if you ask me

 

also lol at damon 'spinning' his abominably bad ending for Lost as 'not spelling it out' rather than 'stringing an audience along for a total anti climax'

Edited June 16, 2012 by Awepittance

[Guest Mirezzi]

This thread has succeeded in making me want to see...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Moonrise Kingdom.

[Hoodie]

YES

[Atop]

It is really good as well.

 

 

hehe

 

 

Way to metatroll, Robbie. You're good.

 

I actually read Compson's posts.

 

He is a smart.

[lumpenprol]

I still haven't seen the film, but this thread has nonetheless been quite a rollercoaster..

 

..in my opinion of Lindelof. At first after seeing that video interview I liked him (having never watched a single episode of Lost). But the more comments I read, the more he sounds like an incompetent.

[syd syside]

I love how this film is bringing out the troll in almost everyone I respect at watmm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

last post

 

yeah i was wondering why Compson just keeps copying and pasting blocks of texts no one is reading, clever trolling if you ask me

 

also lol at damon 'spinning' his abominably bad ending for Lost as 'not spelling it out' rather than 'stringing an audience along for a total anti climax'

 

Shit no ones reading my posts!?

 

lol

[Rubin Farr]

saw the 3D IMAX, a great visual spectacle to be sure. More questions than answers which is trademark Lindelof, but I can wait for a sequel. Hopefully Scott does the Blade Runner film next.

[Atop]

imo Lindlelop isn't incompetent.......

 

 

He is a nerd just like the rest of us except that he gets to write sci-fi/fantasy scripts and get paid for it.

 

I was a Lost fan for years.

 

There are many well written interesting plots within the show, but the end did kill it for me.

 

He wasn't the only one to blame for Cowboys and Aliens being boring,

Lost ending on a sour note

and

Prometheus not being what some people wanted it to be.

 

opinions

[azatoth]

There are many well written interesting plots within the show, but the end did kill it for me.

 

He wasn't the only one to blame for Cowboys and Aliens being boring,

Lost ending on a sour note

and

Prometheus not being what some people wanted it to be.

 

opinions

 

Yet what they all have in common is Lindelof, so it kinda makes him suck.

[Rubin Farr]

wait a minute, if Engineers created all life in the Milky Way at least, then they designed Predators right since they are intelligent and hunt xenomorphs?

[Atop]

There are many well written interesting plots within the show, but the end did kill it for me.

 

He wasn't the only one to blame for Cowboys and Aliens being boring,

Lost ending on a sour note

and

Prometheus not being what some people wanted it to be.

 

opinions

 

Yet what they all have in common is Lindelof, so it kinda makes him suck.

 

Yes, if you think all of Lost, Prometheus, and C & A completely suck...which I don't.

 

 

 

o p i n i o n s

[syd syside]

Awepittance were you saying that anyone who enjoyed Prometheus is being dishonest? I'm not trying to have a go here, but I am curious how I am a troll. I'm just posting relevant information that i have been reading regarding the film that I found interesting. I don't like all this competitive opinions business. Disagreements are fine, but don't dismiss content just because my stance is different. I mean it doesn't really matter to me, but it seems like a narrow minded approach that limits the range of discussion we could be having about this film.

 

It's also odd that you assume the content that I posted wasn't interesting to anyone else, despite having no clue what that the content discusses. Is this thread suppose to be a circle jerk of the side you agree with most? I just don't understand whats with all this competitive opinons stuffs.

Edited June 17, 2012 by compson

[Atop]

Metatrolling - when a person says something sarcastically to have it taken the wrong way, while knowing that it will be taken the wrong way just so that it annoys the person or persons being centered out yet still being able to back track and not take the blame for the initial remark/remarks by saying, "That isn't what I meant at all."

 

I think we are in the minority for being honest about what we enjoyed about the film Compson.

 

We are too glass half full.

 

*backs out of bar slowly with guns drawn*

[gaarg]

I saw alien yesterday (with kokoon) and it ruined Prometheus a bit more for me in retrospective. Ah well, I'll still give it another go in some time and see how it comes out...

[syd syside]

Damn this internet stuff is some tricky stuff.

[Atop]

Okay, so all of you here love sci-fi and Prometheus is full of amazing space shots, tech design, fucked up hardcore violence, one of the best androids ever portrayed on film....and none of this makes up for the fact that most of you think the characters were not well written?

 

The film is about space travel, an android, an elitist pig who gets what he deserves, alien progenitors, and bad ass genetically mutating super weapons.

 

This is what makes the film enjoyable.

 

Not perfect.

 

I wanted this thread to turn into a discussion about the bigger story within the film.

 

I say we both back out with guns drawn, to save our pride Compson.

 

These are not the nerds we are looking for.

 

Indeed the internet is tricky business.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Atop

[syd syside]

I get the impression that the institutions and marketing is what fuels a lot of the culture today with how one approaches media. There is generally two or three groups of people, ones who look at advertising as knowledge, ones who are indifferent, and ones who hate advertising. I have discussed the negative role advertising has on media, how it alters creative freedoms... it is all quite disconcerting sometimes. So I understand having a strong opposing emotional response to something that is a) making lots of money, is mainstream b) cost a lot of money to both make and advertise. These things give an impression that the films are no longer of value or they are products. Which they are of course. However where I differ now from my older self is that I no longer care. To expect another Alien, Druqks, what have you is only putting yourself in both a more negative and narrow mindset. This mindset is essentially a transformation from the way in which we observed media in childhood I think. We are advertised to believe that popularity and critical acclaim/award shows are the bar for success. This brings us back to the two or three groups of people. Those that hate advertising will likely see popularity, reviews, and awards as meaningless. Which is fine. However the problem with this is the abundant amounts of this thing you hate. Ads exist everywhere as well as popular culture. It is unavoidable. This conflicting reality is what causes the transformation. We see reality as wrong and therefore establish ourselves as elite. This elitism is the wolf in sheep clothing. After all our understanding of the horrors of capitalistic institutions and how they damage creativity, elitism is of the same beast. It drives us to be competitive over subjectivity and it drives us to find the flaws with the system. If popular culture will always exists, my new way of looking at this is that there is no point in spending energy complaining about a clearly flawed system. Rather like you just said Atop I will approach each film, album as an independent, at least as best I can. It doesn't matter that it wasn't as good as Alien. Alien will always be safe in my mind and in my collection. There was still something to be gained from the Prometheus experience and discussing the theories on the plot or the execution of the directing and writing can be done in a beneficial way that only adds to our imagination.

Edited June 17, 2012 by compson

[Squee]

HOLY SHIT, check this out:

 

Prometheus, Alien, Aliens

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, easy there, karmakramer...

[syd syside]

Essentially...

 

[Guest Shit Attack]

cant believe people are analysing this movie so much. Specially when you find out they really did mean to say that the bald guys wanted to kill humans because.....they killed jesus haha what a load a shit

[beerwolf]

I haven't kept up with this thread but it seems to me this film was made entirely for a huge platform for sequals and spin-offs to be born from (probably the reason why charachters aren't developed that much) The potential is massive and Fox knows this and has cleverly seen a way to line their pockets for years to come. Still not sure if it's a good or bad film. I'd like to watch it again though.

[Guest Jimmy McMessageboard]

imo Lindlelop isn't incompetent.......

 

He is a nerd just like the rest of us except that he gets to write sci-fi/fantasy scripts and get paid for it.

 

I was a Lost fan for years.

 

There are many well written interesting plots within the show, but the end did kill it for me.

 

 

i just get the impression he has an idea and he doesn't think on it he just writes it. so many plots holes. so many problems. so much dumb. if he sat and thought about it he'd realize. maybe he doesn't care because he likes the idea so much.

 

Essentially...

 

 

i lold

 

cant believe people are analysing this movie so much. Specially when you find out they really did mean to say that the bald guys wanted to kill humans because.....they killed jesus haha what a load a shit

 

that does seem to be what they are saying. they sent jesus and humans killed him so they decided to send the black goo, or something. maybe there is a wheel we can turn which moves the planet so they can't find us?

 

I'd like to see a film where jesus is portrayed as an alien but damn people would boycott and picket it. ALIEN JESUS would be an awesome b-movie