Second Wachowski Comes Out As Trans

[eugene]

lol

[Perezvon]

lol

[Blir]

 

 

Imagine you're wearing a pair of jeans and just feel that they're not right. Sure, they might be a fully functional pair of jeans, but inside they don't match the jeans in your heart. 'These are not the right jeans', you think.

That's transgender. Your body just don't feel right.

 

 

So you're saying if I'm not happy with a pair of jeans I bought then I'm a woman? Or I need to stop being such a woman?

[maitake]

 

 

 

Imagine you're wearing a pair of jeans and just feel that they're not right. Sure, they might be a fully functional pair of jeans, but inside they don't match the jeans in your heart. 'These are not the right jeans', you think.

That's transgender. Your body just don't feel right.

 

 

So you're saying if I'm not happy with a pair of jeans I bought then I'm a woman? Or I need to stop being such a woman?

 

 

He's saying you need to go sign up for a vagina implant right now. RIGHT NOW

 

jeans are literally ball crushers unless you wear then loose and look like a fucking moron!! cut me balls off so i can wear em' prooper

[cruising for burgers]

The desire to be feminine, submissive, an object of beauty, etc..

are you saying that these characteristics are exclusive to the feminine gender?

[maitake]

 

The desire to be feminine, submissive, an object of beauty, etc..

are you saying that these characteristics are exclusive to the feminine gender?

 

 

No it's just things that people typically identify with.. Not mutually exclusive. Of course there's guys out there with submissive fantasies ( believe me, i'm one of them!! without a doubt a bdsm switch type) and women who'd prefer be masculine and not put up with crazy beauty standards.

[Richie Sombrero]

How mental was their childhood?

 

I'm not asking if it was mental, it definitely must have been.

[LimpyLoo]

while it's something that i don't personally relate to or entirely understand it's not up to me to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies / lives if it's not hurting anyone.

 

i suppose one thing that confuses me is the contradiction between gender being an illusion / fluid and yet also operating within the binary while choosing / knowing what gender you are supposed to be. just genuinely curious, someone fill me in on what someone might say in response to that?

 

for the milo types who think it's a mental illness i think it's clear that there are plenty of trans people who are just as 'normal' as any other person on this planet. it seems like a very reactionary and superficial way to treat someone based on a subject you clearly don't relate to / know nothing about.

Yes this is one of those idiotic contradictory things spawned in the hellish furnaces of tumblr

 

Gender exists, whether it's a spectrum or a social construct or whatever it actually is

But it does exist

Otherwise Gender Dysphoria wouldn't be a coherent concept

 

 

And as far as the "you are a bigoted asshole if you accidentally misgender someone or aren't perfectly up to snuff on the language and etiquette" opinions that are floating out there...

 

That is dumb

This world needs you to be kind and thoughtful

This world needs you to be a friend of the downtrodden

This world shouldn't expect you to be fucking omniscient, to be able to read fucking minds

Anyone who holds you to that standard is being unreasonable

[cruising for burgers]

 

 

The desire to be feminine, submissive, an object of beauty, etc..

are you saying that these characteristics are exclusive to the feminine gender?

 

No it's just things that people typically identify with.. Not mutually exclusive. Of course there's guys out there with submissive fantasies ( believe me, i'm one of them!! without a doubt a bdsm switch type) and women who'd prefer be masculine and not put up with crazy beauty standards.

 

ahhh ok, my bad....

[auxien]

 

 

i suppose one thing that confuses me is the contradiction between gender being an illusion / fluid and yet also operating within the binary while choosing / knowing what gender you are supposed to be. just genuinely curious, someone fill me in on what someone might say in response to that?

 

That issue was what I found the strangest (well, apart from two brothers who obviously are close and work together/etc. both having so similar of paths in life, to that extent... that's quite odd). Obviously it's possible to say "people should feel free to live at any point within or entirely without the commonly excepted gender binary, and I happen to choose to identify as a female." Nothing wrong with it, just a touch unexpected. Then again all of this is unexpected.

 

edit: (mostly unexpected because I don't really care about them as people because I don't know them or am more than vaguely aware of their existence)

 

 

The obvious answer is that gender is, in reality, typically very binary, whether it's induced by social pressure or genetic expression. I see people who are born with physical characteristics that do not align with their mental characteristics. The desire to be feminine, submissive, an object of beauty, etc.. It would be so strange to look in the mirror and see a man and then put on some jeans, boots, and go interact with society in that way when inside is the total opposite. Having to pretend constantly to avoid ridicule and scorn?

 

I don't know where the "gender fluid" idea came from.. maybe it's just a reaction and actually a bit silly. Humanity really tends to just like binary things. This or that. Red or blue. Big and small. Wouldn't gender norms be our own creation? As if we have collectively over the years developed a sense for what gender means and how gender operates.. I'm not really all that surprised that transexual people also fixate on this.. I am a GIRL, i am a BOY. It's in our very nature to choose sides here?

 

 

I imagine that gender fluidity comes from real humans who are born either with A) mixed physical characteristics that keep them from being 'just' male or female, or B) mental traits and leanings that require them to deny their placement into the strict male/female binary that most of society has been imposing for years. Given that there's literally millions of people who fall into that not-binary categorization and likely none of those people are exactly alike in how they differ from either end of the spectrum, you end up with a fluid concept. The "gender fluid" phrase is also applied by those who simply think male/female demarcations of more casual aspects of society (fashion, gender roles, etc.) are restricting and they may simply feel like skirting the norms of society by perhaps wearing a flowery dress even though they are a bearded straight male or something; maybe someone who doesn't identify as truly bisexual or transgender or any such thing, but instead just thinks normal conventions are fun to toy with. All of these things have been around for literally all of recorded human history, but only recently (afaik) have they been defined by that particular term.

 

Humanity does tend to like the binary, but we also very much (perhaps even more so) enjoy the subversion of it.

[maitake]

That explanation makes good sense. Thanks!

[auxien]

imo, in celebration, can we all just make out with each other? Y'know, the one thing we've all always wanted to do on WATMM for years but never had the chance to bring it up?

 

finally

[LimpyLoo]

imo, in celebration, can we all just make out with each other? Y'know, the one thing we've all always wanted to do on WATMM for years but never had the chance to bring it up?

*gives Blank hug, poking him in the eye with erection*

[KovalainenFanBoy]

imo, in celebration, can we all just make out with each other? Y'know, the one thing we've all always wanted to do on WATMM for years but never had the chance to bring it up?

 

wait... who have I been making out with then?

[xox]

oooo man! why can't we talk about this freely without faking each others? i'm starting to be affraid of having an opinion here. what ever one says ends up being a terrorist. i mean, YES they or anybody else can do with their lives what ever they want...bla bla... i agree with that, of course, imo we all think like that. hey, it's the 21st and it's watmm! amarite

 

but it's funny how people think that it's easier to treat body than mind. sometimes it's faster, i agree. ok, i guess sometimes it is but we're not talking about mild plastic surgery here. maybe they tried with psychiaty but today's psychiatry, especially in the US is a joke! it's all about genes and viruses and tons of pills.

also, if i agree to treat my mind then i'd admit there's something wrong with me and how could that be?! in this case it's the body all the way, not 'me'. was descartes really THAT right?

 

if i feel depressed enough for two weeks = it's depression, it's a condition, take antidepresants for at least for 6 to 9 months

but if i'm depressed cause i'm convinced that i'm a woman in man's body and i change my sex cause i think it's the only solution for my dissatisfaction = that's just another word for maximum level of psychological health known to mankind and we ALL HAVE TO see it in that way. well ok, at least they're smiling now = success? i hope so but i have reasons to doubt, if you allow. it IS possible this will solve many of their problems they had prior to sex change operations. i wish them well.

 

...and again, when we don't know what it is we blame viruses and genes. classicx! but we know what this is, easlily, just the answer is not a popular one.

[Bechuga]

That's why a lot of evaluation both medically and psychologically for people wishing to transition, to make sure it's not just a moment of confusion rather than clarity.

Plenty of people who believe themselves to be incorrectly aligned turn out to have something else going on not requiring transitiong or, as you say, just depressed or needing treatment in another way.

This helps to prevent needless extensive surgeries and therapies and likely lawsuits for malpractice in incorrect diagnosis.

Can't imagine a family being happy that their son turned into a woman and vice versa because a psychologist fucked up the evaluation.

 

You can presume that both Wachowski's went the full length of evaluations and tests before it was determined and agreed that they're truly not happy with their bodies, and that nothing else but gender realignment will help.

This is why it's such a big deal medically: how can you know that a ten year old really is suffering from gender dysphoria or is just a phase? What happens if you transition a young person to the opposite gender and they realise that it was a mistake?

A minefield still, and will continue to be for many years. As I say, in the end, the person with the dysphoria is the one who will be sure about the different between some momentary malaise and genuinely feeling uncomfortable in their skin.

 

And as someone else said, it's our own choices, right? They're altering their own bodies, so it's not skin off mine or your genitals if they need to change.

[xox]

hey if they're happy afterwards that's all that matters

[Guest]

oooo man! why can't we talk about this freely without faking each others? i'm starting to be affraid of having an opinion here. what ever one says ends up being a terrorist. i mean, YES they or anybody else can do with their lives what ever they want...bla bla... i agree with that, of course, imo we all think like that. hey, it's the 21st and it's watmm! amarite

 

but it's funny how people think that it's easier to treat body than mind. sometimes it's faster, i agree. ok, i guess sometimes it is but we're not talking about mild plastic surgery here. maybe they tried with psychiaty but today's psychiatry, especially in the US is a joke! it's all about genes and viruses and tons of pills.

also, if i agree to treat my mind then i'd admit there's something wrong with me and how could that be?! in this case it's the body all the way, not 'me'. was descartes really THAT right?

 

if i feel depressed enough for two weeks = it's depression, it's a condition, take antidepresants for at least for 6 to 9 months

but if i'm depressed cause i'm convinced that i'm a woman in man's body and i change my sex cause i think it's the only solution for my dissatisfaction = that's just another word for maximum level of psychological health known to mankind and we ALL HAVE TO see it in that way. well ok, at least they're smiling now = success? i hope so but i have reasons to doubt, if you allow. it IS possible this will solve many of their problems they had prior to sex change operations. i wish them well.

 

...and again, when we don't know what it is we blame viruses and genes. classicx! but we know what this is, easlily, just the answer is not a popular one.

 

Good questions.

 

When transitioning, usually the person has to live as the gender they want to be for years before having any physical surgery. That takes some of the psychological guess work out of the equation. One of my best friends transitioned and it was almost 10 years before any type of surgery was put into play.

[LimpyLoo]

oooo man! why can't we talk about this freely without faking each others? i'm starting to be affraid of having an opinion here. what ever one says ends up being a terrorist. i mean, YES they or anybody else can do with their lives what ever they want...bla bla... i agree with that, of course, imo we all think like that. hey, it's the 21st and it's watmm! amarite

 

but it's funny how people think that it's easier to treat body than mind. sometimes it's faster, i agree. ok, i guess sometimes it is but we're not talking about mild plastic surgery here. maybe they tried with psychiaty but today's psychiatry, especially in the US is a joke! it's all about genes and viruses and tons of pills.

also, if i agree to treat my mind then i'd admit there's something wrong with me and how could that be?! in this case it's the body all the way, not 'me'. was descartes really THAT right?

 

if i feel depressed enough for two weeks = it's depression, it's a condition, take antidepresants for at least for 6 to 9 months

but if i'm depressed cause i'm convinced that i'm a woman in man's body and i change my sex cause i think it's the only solution for my dissatisfaction = that's just another word for maximum level of psychological health known to mankind and we ALL HAVE TO see it in that way. well ok, at least they're smiling now = success? i hope so but i have reasons to doubt, if you allow. it IS possible this will solve many of their problems they had prior to sex change operations. i wish them well.

 

...and again, when we don't know what it is we blame viruses and genes. classicx! but we know what this is, easlily, just the answer is not a popular one.

I think your post hits on an inherent philosophic problem with the notion of 'identity'

I'm kinda obsessed with Body Identity Integrity Disorder (BIID), whereby physically-able people deeply want to be an amputee, or blind or whatever

This condition is completely resistant to psychiatric methods

And the strange part is that the only thing that alleviates their crippling anxiety and depression is...you guessed it...maming them in their preferred way

There is a huge ethics debate in medical academia about performing these voluntary amputations

Recently a doctor in Britain(?) poured bleach in the eyes of a woman who wanted to be blind (she is now blind and really really happy about it)

 

Now, if there was a pill to make these people happy with their pre-mamed bodies, should they be encouraged to take it? Would that be seen as a cure for their disorder, or as an alteration of their fundamental identity? Would it be ethical to force-feed someone this pill if you knew for a fact they would thank you afterwards?

 

Now imagine we're talking about literally anything else: gender Dysphoria, whether someone likes garlic or not, homosexuality, how moral someone is, how polite they are, how much someone is in love with their SO, how confident someone is

 

The opening scene of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep plays with this perfectly (the mood organ scene)

 

 

Anyway, I think ultimately there is no answer, as 'identity' is a very slippery (and perhaps ultimately incoherent) concept

[LimpyLoo]

Here's a rad NYT article on BIID: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/health/psychology/at-war-with-their-bodies-they-seek-to-sever-limbs.html?_r=0

 

 

By the way I wasn't at all trying to imply that transgenderism is comparable to BIID...rather I just brought up BIID because I think it more overtly presses on our intuitions about identity

[modey]

I think your post hits on an inherent philosophic problem with the notion of 'identity'

I'm kinda obsessed with Body Identity Integrity Disorder (BIID), whereby physically-able people deeply want to be an amputee, or blind or whatever

This condition is completely resistant to psychiatric methods

And the strange part is that the only thing that alleviates their crippling anxiety and depression is...you guessed it...maming them in their preferred way

There is a huge ethics debate in medical academia about performing these voluntary amputations

Recently a doctor in Britain(?) poured bleach in the eyes of a woman who wanted to be blind (she is now blind and really really happy about it)

 

This is one of the most confusing and horrible sounding disorders I've heard of. It just kinda seems like an insult to those who are involuntarily disabled.

 

 

This is why it's such a big deal medically: how can you know that a ten year old really is suffering from gender dysphoria or is just a phase? What happens if you transition a young person to the opposite gender and they realise that it was a mistake?

 

A 10-year old isn't going to have SRS though, so whatever they do is reversible if they change their mind.

 

 

The "gender fluid" phrase is also applied by those who simply think male/female demarcations of more casual aspects of society (fashion, gender roles, etc.) are restricting and they may simply feel like skirting the norms of society by perhaps wearing a flowery dress even though they are a bearded straight male or something

I have been wanting to wear a dress (probably not a flowery one though, hah) onstage for a while now but I just don't want people to make too much of a fuss over it :P

 

 

I know several people who do the genderfluid thing; they just look like late 90s ravers but they're cool people and they're having fun so I think it's great.

[LimpyLoo]

The latter two quotes aren't mine, btw

[tec]

I was so disappointed by the Matrix sequels, I remember before the second film sitting in a pub with the girlfriend of the time and her revealing how she once let some fucking goomba from school cop a feel of her tits, the link between that and the film have never been broken.

[maitake]

I was so disappointed by the Matrix sequels, I remember before the second film sitting in a pub with the girlfriend of the time and her revealing how she once let some fucking goomba from school cop a feel of her tits, the link between that and the film have never been broken.

 

 

:( indeed. they were a horrible let down.

[GraveGlitcher]

 

I was so disappointed by the Matrix sequels, I remember before the second film sitting in a pub with the girlfriend of the time and her revealing how she once let some fucking goomba from school cop a feel of her tits, the link between that and the film have never been broken.

 

 

:( indeed. they were a horrible let down.

 

the tits...or the sequels?