ignatius Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Zeffolia said: bernie anyone else will just be another corporate shill the question was "Who has a chance of beating trump?" also, people said the same about hillary.. but i'd take her any day and twice on sunday over trump. there's still a lot of good things a corporate shill can do/protect. I'm not arguing for center politics.. just saying.. if it comes down to biden or whoever.. i'm voting for that person. i think warren would be good though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 ^ that is the main sentiment of most democrats ^ As long as those people that didn't show up to vote in 2016 make it out of the house and into the voting booth this time, we stand a good chance to take the election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 hours ago, ignatius said: the question was "Who has a chance of beating trump?" Unless something earth shattering happens between now and then, it's either going to be Bernie, Biden, Warren, or Harris. There are pros/cons of all of course, but if we were to focus just on who could take down donnie in a debate and effectively win over voters...my money would go on Harris. Not saying she's the best candidate for the job, just that I think she would be able to respond back intelligently and fiercely against his bullying, belittling, and full of shit style attacks he's known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, ignatius said: "Who has a chance of beating trump?" This question actually pisses me off. As the coming election is basically a "vote for or against Trump". It doesn't really matter who's the other candidate. Odds are, if it's a "normal" candidate, it's an improvement. The bar is that low. So this shouldn't even be a discussion, imo. If you have a US passport, there's only two options: Trump or democrat. Not voting, or third party is pretty much a vote for trump. It's that simple. Please don't fall for the "democrats need to love their candidate" nonsense. This time, that's irrelevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 ^true, end of the day I really don't care who it is as long as he goes. they could put a sack of potatoes vs. trump and I'd vote for the sack. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 hours ago, goDel said: This question actually pisses me off. As the coming election is basically a "vote for or against Trump". It doesn't really matter who's the other candidate. Odds are, if it's a "normal" candidate, it's an improvement. The bar is that low. So this shouldn't even be a discussion, imo. If you have a US passport, there's only two options: Trump or democrat. Not voting, or third party is pretty much a vote for trump. It's that simple. Please don't fall for the "democrats need to love their candidate" nonsense. This time, that's irrelevant. One thing to watch out for is a Dem winning the nomination that keeps harping on about “woke” stuff in a way that not only annoys fence sitters, but people like myself who will vote for them no matter what. That will make people vote for Trump again. Think of it this way: If you are from a rural area where everyone is white and getting addicted to opioids, committing suicide in vast numbers, a single mention of white privilege is going to remind you of why you voted for Trump in the first place. Because fuck the people who tell you your problems don’t matter unless you are brown. It would be so easy to avoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Candiru said: One thing to watch out for is a Dem winning the nomination that keeps harping on about “woke” stuff in a way that not only annoys fence sitters, but people like myself who will vote for them no matter what. That will make people vote for Trump again. Think of it this way: If you are from a rural area where everyone is white and getting addicted to opioids, committing suicide in vast numbers, a single mention of white privilege is going to remind you of why you voted for Trump in the first place. Because fuck the people who tell you your problems don’t matter unless you are brown. It would be so easy to avoid The left has always been the force that tried to better the life of people from lower social strata. Problem is that it's impossible to teach a retard about political history. Around 20% - 30% of people are idiots that will do dumb stuff like voting for Trump no matter what. There is no way that any democrat politician will win them over, ever, at least with reason. So how is this easy to avoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Candiru, how many people do you think are still on the fence with regard to Trump at this point? Because as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to Trump, at this point there is no "on the fence". In a normal election, I understand people on the fence would look to the candidates. What they're saying, how they perform in the debates, and a host of other things play factor in what they'll do. This time, as far as I'm concerned, there is no middle ground. If people still consider Trump as a viable option, they wouldn't even seriously consider a democrat to begin with. I'd argue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 There are people who will vote for Biden, but not Kamala Harris. Dems just have to talk about policy without mentioning identity politics. And there’s a whole lot of policy the GOP has neglected, which should make it easy, right? It’s not as easy when you say on camera that you don’t believe in having a border or start talking about reparations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 identity politics always fucks up the dems in some places.. so, if whoever wins the nomination knows how to be politically smart about the message.. inclusive yet working class or whatever.. for better or worse.. will be able to motivate voters i think.. but i'm not a professional.. i'm sure there's lot's of details the analysts have ticking around in their brains.. hopefully the right formula is reached and we don't get a candidate who is focus grouped into oblivion and turns off a bunch of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) going to be burning all my jon voight movies in the backyard as soon as i finish typing this... i'm so triggered right now. just kidding. Edited July 11, 2019 by Nebraska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, Candiru said: There are people who will vote for Biden, but not Kamala Harris. What are we talking about here? Millions? Tens? Hundreds? Or let me put it this way: if millions of people are still being picky about who's going to run against Trump, I'll stop giving f-cks about US politics. (if Trump wins, I'll stop talking about him for a year. you can quote me on that) Although I'm afraid US politics forces itself upon the rest of the world anyways. So I'll give f-cks, but I'll shut up about mr. T for a year anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Hail Satan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, goDel said: What are we talking about here? Millions? Tens? Hundreds? Obviously none of us know...but here's a real world example. I have a friend that voted Trump. He told me he regrets that decision and would not do it again. The main reason he voted for him was not because he thought Trump was all that great, but for some reason he absolutely hated Hillary. So my fear is that people with this type of mindset could look at whoever becomes the Dem candidate and decide they have some sort of personal bias against this person, then think it may be safer to stick with the ol' orange shithead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) What's also part of the equation, is that many people who voted like your friend, believed Hillary would win anyways. That's what the polls said at the time. Similar things happened with the Brexit vote. Lots of people wanted to voice their discontent, even though they didn't really want out of the EU. Assuming the outcome would be safe, they voted for a Brexit. I'm fairly certain this logic played a role in 2016 as well. And yes, there's plenty "Never Hillary" votes as well. I know similar people. Many of them say they didn't vote at all. Although I have my suspicions a couple voted Trump but aren't willing to say so. And to be honest, "Never Hillary" is not an excuse to vote for "Grab m by the pussy" Trump, btw. Edited July 12, 2019 by goDel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Candiru said: One thing to watch out for is a Dem winning the nomination that keeps harping on about “woke” stuff in a way that not only annoys fence sitters, but people like myself who will vote for them no matter what. That will make people vote for Trump again. Think of it this way: If you are from a rural area where everyone is white and getting addicted to opioids, committing suicide in vast numbers, a single mention of white privilege is going to remind you of why you voted for Trump in the first place. Because fuck the people who tell you your problems don’t matter unless you are brown. It would be so easy to avoid I can't imagine anyone being on the fence in this election. Either you're with the group that puts children in concentration camps or you're with the other people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Braintree said: I can't imagine anyone being on the fence in this election. Either you're with the group that puts children in concentration camps or you're with the other people. There are more people than you think that don’t give a shit and will vote for him again if the Dem nominee says they’re going to do nothing about illegal immigration and that the border doesn’t exist. In their eyes, Dems will look hypocritical by not caring about certain laws, even though Trump doesn’t care about treason. You can’t fix stupid but you can plan for it at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 One friend in particular is an interesting character. He's half Belgian - Swiss, but grew up in LA and lived most of his life in the US (he has a US passport). He currently has been living in Belgium for 10 years or something, and the fun part is, he considers himself a fairly extreme libertarian. He's one of those "Never Hillary" people and still hates Obama. He says he didn't vote in 2016. But I really don't believe that. Given his strong emotions about Clinton and Obama. So he currently lives in 'communist' Europe and is confronted with the fact things are pretty reasonable around here. Believe it or not, he's even fairly happy about the tax-rates in Belgium. US taxes are godawful though. Especially when you have a US passport and live outside of the US. Because you still need to pay taxes to the US. Kinda silly, seeing he has to pay Belgian taxes as well. So he's pretty salty about taxes. ;) I found that out, btw, when I mailed him that clip of Rutger Bregman at Davos ("Taxes, taxes, taxes!"). I was kinda pushing his buttons, but he actually got pretty pissed. (it was meant good hearted... yeah, taxes are serious business i guess) Taxes are a sensitive subject. So he spend tons of times explaining why taxes in the US are f-ed, even though he genuinely saw me as some typical PC leftist AOC commy nutcase. He really did. But still he took time to explain his theories on taxes and all that. Kinda heartwarming, even though I consider myself fairly moderate and felt he was jumping the gun with his assumptions. What also didn't help was our discussion about the Russia investigation, i guess. He has worked at the Washington Post and still has some contacts there, so he had some inside info about the Mueller thing going nowhere. This was just before Barr pushed his summary, btw. After Barr he gave his "told you so!" speech. My response was a "it's not finished yet, buddy". So, from his perspective a drank lots of cool-aid. His strongest argument about Russia leading to nothing was that it would have leaked by now. Which kinda confuses me, as there's been plenty of leaks. But whatever. Somethings we just wont see eye to eye, I guess. He's an interesting character, nevertheless. And apart from some of his beliefs, we can get along well. He's even fairly creative. Jazz musician. Knows squarepusher. And is into modern composers and all that. When it comes to music, he's as open minded as they come. So yeah, quite the character. Not sure why I'm putting this here. But yeah. Did so anyways. Needed to get it off my chest, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 19 hours ago, Zeffolia said: bernie anyone else will just be another corporate shill warren is not accepting corporate donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 2 hours ago, very honest said: warren is not accepting corporate donations. she's a fucking shill, she used to be a registered republican, fuck her https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren Warren was registered as a Republican from 1991 to 1996.[1] She voted Republican for many years. "I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) sorry zeff, she's the best candidate running. in the senate you always see her taking the right side and calling things for exactly what they are. Edited July 12, 2019 by very honest 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Have we really reached the point where having been a registered republican in the (distant) past is an actual argument to call someone a shill? Thats insane. Out of all politicians, I consider Warren one of the good ones. Integrity. Country first. Generally knows whats shes talking about. Focus on actual policies. But because she was a registered republican, in the nineties, shes a shill. Does anyone with their right mind even think thats a fair point? Come on, Zeff. You're better than this. Dont fall for the partisan nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Someone get this man a juicy burger, grilled by Elizabeth Warren after she reams Wells Fargo in a congressional hearing about their predatory loan practices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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