2020 US Election

[auxien]

19 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

So is Harris the pick then? Saw that the Clintons endorsed her. She maybe not a great pick? Not sure what exactly she has accomplished as vice prez. She makes speeches about women's right to choose from time to time, that is all I've seen of her. Whenever asked about foreign policy or pretty much any other issue, it just sounded like she was reading bullet points off a power point presentation of campaign talking points. Still seems like Trump has the edge in other words, guess we will see how things play out at democratic convention.

Harris is being lined up to be for sure. i've already seen reporting that at least some big donors are lining up for her, which is really all that matters in our ' ' 'd e m o c r a c y' ' ' we'e got going on here.

VP is generally supposed to be not doing too much, at least in modern times, so that's not abnormal. 

foreign policy is very important and Biden was pretty big on that, so he definitely had much more experience and was just handling all that stuff himself (plus always looks better if the pres is there speaking on the foreign policy if it needs to elevate above the Secretary of State.

Trump's almost entirely shitty record on foreign policy is at least a record, compared to Harris, but she's got a bit of a blank slate advantage maybe? she'll have foreign leaders in the background quietly supporting her for sure, few except dictators were fans of Trump when he was in.

[zazen]

Blast from the past

So if she gets the nom who should her vice be? Newsom? Buttigieg?

Edited July 21 by zazen

[arti]

I'm English, what do i Know, don't really care to be honest.  Go at it!

[zazen]

polls, up to a few days ago, trump 2% lead against harris

https://elections2024.thehill.com/national/harris-trump-general/

[arti]

17 minutes ago, Squee said:

Jaffa knows the rules. He’s just trolling. 

I'm expressing a view point.   Am I not entitled to express one?  I realise with the hive mentality of avid MSNBC /  Young Turks viewers/voyeurs  it may not go down that well.  Forgive me for expressing myself.  PS-Squee you've written some killer music.  Keep it up!

[Wunderbar]

just take the square root of trump and multiply it with biden age.

[Rubin Farr]

 

[thumbass]

Like it or not this election goes to Trump

Too much has happened

[auxien]

Just now, thumbass said:

Like it or not this election goes to Trump

if it were a dance-off Kamala would win hands down tho, gotta admit.

 

4 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said:

 

vs

[perunamuusi]

Surely hopefully, all the "fuck it I'll vote trump - that'll show 'em" protest vote crowd from 2016 won't really do it again after actually being responsible for 4 years of Trump? 

 

[decibal cooper]

14 minutes ago, auxien said:

Trump's almost entirely shitty record on foreign policy is at least a record, compared to Harris, but she's got a bit of a blank slate advantage maybe? she'll have foreign leaders in the background quietly supporting her for sure, few except dictators were fans of Trump when he was in.

idk, I disagree a little about Trump on this issue, especially when people criticize him for meeting in person with the North Korean leader. NK has been doing nuclear tests since 2003, thermonuclear since 2016, and they usually test when they have no direct line to DC while simultaneously being sanctioned badly by Western countries at America's behest. Have used this example before, but it almost seems like people today would criticize JFK talking to Khrushchev and persuading him to remove the nuclear missiles from Cuba instead of having American military invade Cuba and risk nuke war in 1962, like they'd say that JFK was kowtowing to a dictator or something.

imo it better to engage with those countries that are America's adversaries and to have frequent and open lines of communication with them, even better if this is done in person on official state visits. I disagreed with Trump getting out of the iran nuclear deal, but at the same time, I think that Biden admin's foreign policy has been a disaster, with Israel probably doing the most damage for America on the world stage, not to mention the greater cost of all the unnecessary death and destruction there in gaza strip and israel. I mean, people can obviously say 'well if Trump was in office do you think he would be doing anything differently regarding Israel?' that is all well and good but doesn't change the fact that he was not in office for the current conflict, and that Biden has to rely on Bill Burns, CIA director, to lead negotiations between Israel and Hamas because his own state dept does not have competent diplomats at the highest level.

Not too mention that Burns most likely cannot secure a ceasefire because Biden will not put any meaningful pressure on Israel by denying them weapons. This the same Bill Burns btw who was once America's leading ambassador to Russia and who said, in a 2008 cable published by wikileaks, that NATO expansion into Ukraine would be a mistake, that Russia would view it as a military threat and would respond accordingly.

I think that a lot of people fail to realize that if we are talking directly to China and Russia especially, then we can ask for their help behind closed doors for them to assist us with reigning in the worst impulses and potential negative outcomes of those countries (their leaders) that are either dictatorships or Islamist. Like if Kim Jong Un is going to talk openly about 'reuniting the peninsula' or attacking South Korea, it is obviously way better for American leaders to be able to talk with Russian and Chinese leaders so as to help put pressure on NK in ways that will be of mutual benefit for all countries and their peoples. The possibility for this kind of diplomacy is very dismal after Biden admin. New alliances are forming that are powerful and brazen enough to challenge American hegemony (and to be successful in doing so), and this admin has closed off dialogue with the countries leading this pack it seems like.

I have seen a lot of users on this forum that have a great depth of knowledge on Eastern and Asian countries, their history, and their politics, would be interested to hear their perspective on these questions too.

[auxien]

11 minutes ago, perunamuusi said:

Surely hopefully, all the "fuck it I'll vote trump - that'll show 'em" protest vote crowd from 2016 won't really do it again after actually being responsible for 4 years of Trump? 

 

any who might've wisened up are being replaced by new people thinking they're very big brained by taking this same route (see last page).

foreign policy stuff in spoiler

Spoiler

4 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

idk, I disagree a little about Trump on this issue, especially when people criticize him for meeting in person with the North Korean leader. NK has been doing nuclear tests since 2003, thermonuclear since 2016, and they usually test when they have no direct line to DC while simultaneously being sanctioned badly by Western countries at America's behest. Have used this example before, but it almost seems like people today would criticize JFK talking to Khrushchev and persuading him to remove the nuclear missiles from Cuba instead of having American military invade Cuba and risk nuke war in 1962, like they'd say that JFK was kowtowing to a dictator or something.

talking to our enemies is fine. on our terms (or, ideally, on terms in conjunction with other nations who have an interest in the discussions as a group), not on theirs in ways that heavily promotes their agendas (NK). Trump showed clearly that he was just in it for pissing off the normies/dems/elites/military/establishment/etc., not doing any 4D chess.

7 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

I mean, people can obviously say 'well if Trump was in office do you think he would be doing anything differently regarding Israel?' that is all well and good but doesn't change the fact that he was not in office for the current conflict, and that Biden has to rely on Bill Burns, CIA director, to lead negotiations between Israel and Hamas because his own state dept does not have competent diplomats at the highest level.

Trump's stance on Israel, if he gets in, is totally up in the air. he'll say whatever he thinks will help him get elected now, say whatever he thinks after based on the day, and if Netanyahu looks at him funny once he'll turn on him and all of Israel and Trump's balllickers will fall in line that he's 'so tough' or whatever. he's just a bull in a china shop on foreign policy as far as i can tell (i've not studied it extensively in relation to Trump/in general tho so i may be mistaken, you seem to have a longer/deeper interest here than me)

10 minutes ago, decibal cooper said:

The possibility for this kind of diplomacy is very dismal after Biden admin. New alliances are forming that are powerful and brazen enough to challenge American hegemony (and to be successful in doing so), and this admin has closed off dialogue with the countries leading this pack it seems like.

we're dialoguing so hard with China still, and roundabout with Russia as well (i mean money, of course. the money is still flowing, which is all that matters really, isn't it? not us nor China nor Russia nor anyone involved actually cares about Taiwan or Ukraine or whoever else's 'freedoms' it's just about keeping up standard status quo for the sake of easy &  safe & profitable trade).

if NK or Russia or China really starts doing stupid anti-market (un-contained war) shit, the others pull back. it's going on with Israel rn, America is just trying to sweep it under the rug until it blows over (tens of thousands of dead Palestinians)

 

[Hail Sagan]

RFK just went live

 

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, Hail Sagan said:

I mean there was no shot of Biden beating Trump so I guess they have a sliver of hope in having Joe step down. Despite having voted Democrat for almost 20 years I just can’t do it this cycle. I had to wince while voting for Joe and especially Hilary. I’m voting Trump and legit hope the dems get trounced this election. When or if the DFL and the liberal media ever come back to their senses and end their mission to become everything they claim to hate I’ll jump back on board but for now fuck em. 

not very Sagan-like of you. 

[ignatius]

35 minutes ago, auxien said:

if it were a dance-off Kamala would win hands down tho, gotta admit.

 

vs

[arti]

They like wars, that much is true.

[EdamAnchorman]

1 hour ago, Hail Sagan said:

I mean there was no shot of Biden beating Trump so I guess they have a sliver of hope in having Joe step down. Despite having voted Democrat for almost 20 years I just can’t do it this cycle. I had to wince while voting for Joe and especially Hilary. I’m voting Trump and legit hope the dems get trounced this election. When or if the DFL and the liberal media ever come back to their senses and end their mission to become everything they claim to hate I’ll jump back on board but for now fuck em. 

I had this opinion for a few months, then some people on here helped me realize that spite voting for trump is not punishing the Dems, there's a whole lot more at stake, and that's an understatement.

This shit is too important to spite vote.  Vote dem, keep Trump out, and then work hard at lower levels.  Get informed for local and state primaries, try and get the good candidates on the ballot for general elections, and hope that the momentum rolls upward.

[Nebraska]

1 hour ago, Rubin Farr said:

[Rubin Farr]

8 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

 

[may be rude]

kamala worked her way up to being attorney general of the massive state of california. she was point on the MORE Act, a piece of legistlation that passed the house and would legalize weed and expunge marijuana crimes. 

[arti]

10 minutes ago, may be rude said:

kamala worked her way up to being attorney general of the massive state of california. she was point on the MORE Act, a piece of legistlation that passed the house and would legalize weed and expunge marijuana crimes. 

You are a fucking idiot, Usagi called your bluff.  Look at how well her policies worked in California.  Mass Homelessness problem/drug addiction.....etc  You'd seriously feel safer with this cackling witch in charge of things?  Haha you are a joke dude.

[ignatius]

30 minutes ago, may be rude said:

kamala worked her way up to being attorney general of the massive state of california. she was point on the MORE Act, a piece of legistlation that passed the house and would legalize weed and expunge marijuana crimes. 

that's some rose colored glasses you got on there while you look back.  

[may be rude]

2 minutes ago, ignatius said:

34 minutes ago, may be rude said:

kamala worked her way up to being attorney general of the massive state of california. she was point on the MORE Act, a piece of legistlation that passed the house and would legalize weed and expunge marijuana crimes. 

that's some rose colored glasses you got on there while you look back.  

also she was a prosecutor and prosecutors are kind of badasses

Edited July 21 by may be rude

[may be rude]

16 minutes ago, arti said:

38 minutes ago, may be rude said:

kamala worked her way up to being attorney general of the massive state of california. she was point on the MORE Act, a piece of legistlation that passed the house and would legalize weed and expunge marijuana crimes. 

You are a fucking idiot, Usagi called your bluff.  Look at how well her policies worked in California.  Mass Homelessness problem/drug addiction.....etc  You'd seriously feel safer with this cackling witch in charge of things?  Haha you are a joke dude.

her constituents were satisfied with her work so much that they put her in the us senate. 

we see you pulling stuff out of your ass and it's gross. 

[decibal cooper]

I was initially skeptical about Harris being able to manage American foreign policy, but I did some research and her view of the Ukraine conflict is actually quite nuanced