chenGOD Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, decibal cooper said: I disagree about your assessment regarding why more US military personnel and assets are now in the middle east. You paint it like Iran is the threat and Israel is the victim. Last week Israel did a political assassination on the Hamas politician who was visiting Iran for a ceremony inaugurating their new president. This was the guy who was in charge of cease fire negotiations, he was hamas lead negotiator. Israel killed him north of tehran, the iranian capital, a strike on another country's sovereign territory. The so called 'rules based international order' that america is always touting, well Israel does not give a fuck about that. No one in American government even acknowledged that israel conducted the attack let alone condemned it. Iran vowed to retaliate, and now americans are there in greater force to protect israel. If we go beyond just shooting down missiles and help israel with pre-emptive or counterstrikes, then we are going to be fighting a war on israel's behalf, looking to the rest of the world like we are fighting to support their war crimes. That fucker lindsay graham has even drafted up the necessary plans for authorizing war. By the way, israel also did targeted killings of hezbollah fighters in Lebanon, another attack on a sovereign nation. in it's behavior israel is acting in the opposite way of what biden admin's stated policy is of a ceasefire and 2 state solution. netanyahu has no interest in that. You make it seem like Iran is a rabid dog about to attack because they hate israel when they are responding to escalatory action that israel has taken. That nyt article about biden's 'nuanced position' on the issue is also ridiculous in my opinion. Oh, so biden 'publicly chided' netanyahu, huh? Oh gee golly gosh, I hope that this public chiding stops the complete psychos from carrying out a collective punishment campaign on civilians and from doing everything in his power to spark a wider regional war. Fact is that the only way to get them to stop is to turn off the faucet of more-or-less unlimited military and diplomatic support and force them to the negotiating table. The stories coming out of israel last week of a torture scandal is truly shocking, not to mention the scores of other war crimes. The two main international courts ICJ and ICC have condemned israel's actions and argued that they are doing collective punishment, using control of food supply as a weapon of war, and other things. biden has not done any extended interviews or press conferences where he discusses these issues at length, and he is basically no longer in the public eye at all at this point. harris camp no better. you have some good sources showing that trump would most likely promote the same policy as biden, but you are clouding the issue by bringing those things in the mix imo. trump was not in office and had no control over the situation since oct 7. yes he endorsed west bank settlement expansion, but so does biden. his admin may condemn them from the podium, but idf offensives in west bank and east jerusalem have increased and become more brutal (and better equiped with american weapons) since oct 7. I know most ppl disagree with me, but I think that america at least 50% responsible for starting war in ukraine. Even if you disagree, that war would be impossible without us military and intel support, and biden admin has no interest of doing diplomacy and trying to get a ceasefire there. I do not see how you could look at the leaked memo from Bill Burns, who was lead american diplomat to russia in 2000s and is now cia director and lead negotiator for biden admin over gaza situation, when he did comprehensive discussions with russia's diplomats and concluded that the russians believed nato expansion to ukraine would be an existential threat to them and would act accordingly. Burns advised that america not expand. Same with israel situation. Yes we did not start the war but we supported it unconditionally and allow israel to continually escalate and kill civilians unchecked. And for the record, I think that politics is absolutely necessary to human life and human thriving, it's all about finding the best means for organizing a society around common values, values like freedom, peace, and using warfare as an absolute last resort, etc. and giving people an optimal chance to have security and the means to live a meaningful life and make meaningful contributions to society. I just think that american partisan politics is a mug's game and is (or should be) beneath people. This is just kind of an unrealistic idealism on my part, but this stuff (partisanship) just serves to divide the populace and ensure that they pose no threat to american power centers who act without any accountability. As obama said around the end of his 8 years in office when reflecting upon washington dc, 'this town has a bias toward war' - I honestly think that the rest of the world, the non-nato and non-euro countries, are beginning to become allied in new ways and oppose american policy of war, sanctions, unilateral action, etc. America is no longer a global hegemon, yet with biden admin it continues acting like one and fanning flames of war. If the country is divided over cultural issues or with thinking that 'their side' is somehow the more moral and just one, then it allows these feckless cunts in power to continue wrecking america's reputation abroad and also continuing policies of war that are inhumane and serve no strategic purpose and only wind up creating more chaos and division globally. I suppose we should take Israel-Palestine over to that thread, but if you don't think the Dem response is substantially better than the response that would have occurred under a Trump administration there's not much point. My whole point was that yes the Dems aren't perfect, but they are a lot better than what would happen under Trump (why you ignored the article where he said Israel needs to finish the job, I'm not sure). It's not clouding the issue - the issue is what would Trump do vs what the Biden admin is doing. Also the settlement thing is 100% on Trump - once you open the barn doors, it's very hard to put the horse back in. When he was in office, Trump's policies toward Israel basically didn't even acknowledge the existence of Palestine. America is 0% responsible for starting the invasion of the Ukraine. That's 100% on Russia. Ukraine is not a NATO member, and Russia decided to invade anyways. Which makes it easy to understand why other countries want to join NATO, and requested to do so. Surely you can see the difference between - a country wishes to join a defensive treaty organization and a country has been invaded. I can tell you with certainty that you are wrong about the rest of the world becoming allied in new ways against the US. It is the same old alliances (BRICS), they just have a bit more relative power with the rise of China's economic power (which is going to collapse over the next couple of decades as China's demographic transition kicks into gear). Most of the rest of the world supports sanctions on Russian elites and has supported suspending Russia from many international bodies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibal cooper Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, chenGOD said: I suppose we should take Israel-Palestine over to that thread, but if you don't think the Dem response is substantially better than the response that would have occurred under a Trump administration there's not much point. My whole point was that yes the Dems aren't perfect, but they are a lot better than what would happen under Trump (why you ignored the article where he said Israel needs to finish the job, I'm not sure). It's not clouding the issue - the issue is what would Trump do vs what the Biden admin is doing. Also the settlement thing is 100% on Trump - once you open the barn doors, it's very hard to put the horse back in. When he was in office, Trump's policies toward Israel basically didn't even acknowledge the existence of Palestine. America is 0% responsible for starting the invasion of the Ukraine. That's 100% on Russia. Ukraine is not a NATO member, and Russia decided to invade anyways. Which makes it easy to understand why other countries want to join NATO, and requested to do so. Surely you can see the difference between - a country wishes to join a defensive treaty organization and a country has been invaded. I can tell you with certainty that you are wrong about the rest of the world becoming allied in new ways against the US. It is the same old alliances (BRICS), they just have a bit more relative power with the rise of China's economic power (which is going to collapse over the next couple of decades as China's demographic transition kicks into gear). Most of the rest of the world supports sanctions on Russian elites and has supported suspending Russia from many international bodies. Yeah you right, not a lot of common ground between us on this one, also probably best as you suggest to keep these various topics in the appropriate threads. Anyways, I appreciate the dialogue, few chances for me to vent on these issues, so cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazing Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 I just watched trumps latest presser and got to say he is very worthy of the r word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perunamuusi Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 18 minutes ago, Crazing said: I just watched trumps latest presser and got to say he is very worthy of the r word. Which one? Racist? Rapist? Retard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 15 minutes ago, Crazing said: I just watched trumps latest presser and got to say he is very worthy of the r word. he's like the R word + a daily dose of low grade speed 38 minutes ago, perunamuusi said: Which one? Racist? Rapist? Retard? yes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Little Helper Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Republican! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 11 hours ago, ignatius said: i'm talking about climate collapse, climate change etc.. not pace of change as related to politics and culture. when the shit really hits the fan i don't expect americans to react in a sane way. they'll likely look for some strong man fascist to solve problems for them because that just seems to happen in tough time.. but it really depends on how these climate/overshoot scenarios present and proceed. which thing will come first and how will it be handled. it's already begun though imo. america isn't any less polarized, religious people aren't any less batshit etc.. the fundamentalist christian fucktards are only going to get weirder. seeing the USA collapse into various states/zones of "living in reality" vs "fake news religious fucktardism" is totally a possible future. cool thing is that one way to work on the solution is to call idiots idiots. the underlying vulnerability is gullibility, the populace got too soft. there's hope, we'll shame fools more as we realize it's our collective responsibility to. we're in the process of evolving a resiliency to the changed information environment but yeah man, for sure. we're already in it, we're already seeing it. hopefully the trump episode could serve as an inoculant, if we emerge out the other side. but yeah this has been spooky to witness how it happens with fascism Edited August 9 by may be rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 45 minutes ago, may be rude said: cool thing is that one way to work on the solution is to call idiots idiots. the underlying vulnerability is gullibility, the populace got too soft. there's hope, we'll shame fools more as we realize it's our collective responsibility to maintain the public information ecosystem, and how dangerous it is. we're in the process of evolving a resiliency to the changed information environment but yeah man, for sure. we're already in it, we're already seeing it. hopefully the trump episode could serve as an inoculant, if we emerge out the other side. but yeah this has been spooky to witness how it happens with fascism USA is so science illiterate.. it's amazing.. getting people to bone up on things is a joke. gonna take some big catastrophe type climate shit to get people to try to understand and half of them will blame astrology, witches, transkids or religion or something. it's only going to get more 'spooky' my dude. simultaneously being super science illiterate americans are very techno optimist... because they don't know shit about either but hear some tech bro say something online and think problems are solved. Edited August 9 by ignatius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdamAnchorman Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 5 minutes ago, ignatius said: USA is so science illiterate.. it's amazing.. getting people to bone up on things is a joke. gonna take some big catastrophe type climate shit to get people to try to understand and half of them will blame astrology, witches, transkids or religion or something. it's only going to get more 'spooky' my dude. simultaneously being super science illiterate americans are very techno optimist... because they don't know shit about either but here some tech bro say something online and think problems are solved. We don't necessarily need to teach science but rather critical thinking, or better yet the scientific method. If you approach any situation with an open mind and the scientific method, it's hard for lies and misinfo to get through regardless of your knowledge on a given subject. Part of that is also saying, "I don't know and I'm going to reserve judgement until I have more info..." if you're still not sure. But that seems like a very tall order in today's media and social media ecosystem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 minutes ago, EdamAnchorman said: We don't necessarily need to teach science but rather critical thinking, or better yet the scientific method. If you approach any situation with an open mind and the scientific method, it's hard for lies and misinfo to get through regardless of your knowledge on a given subject. Part of that is also saying, "I don't know and I'm going to reserve judgement until I have more info..." if you're still not sure. But that seems like a very tall order in today's media and social media ecosystem. yes. true. critical thinking. another place america has serious shortcomings.. probably in equal or greater measure to science illiteracy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
may be rude Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 2 hours ago, ignatius said: USA is so science illiterate.. it's amazing.. getting people to bone up on things is a joke. gonna take some big catastrophe type climate shit to get people to try to understand yes we learn the hard way 2 hours ago, ignatius said: it's only going to get more 'spooky' my dude. you're right 2 hours ago, ignatius said: simultaneously being super science illiterate americans are very techno optimist... because they don't know shit about either but hear some tech bro say something online and think problems are solved. one crazy thing is that we should anticipate that geo engineering will occur this century, and many will jump aboard that train. the debate over geo engineering will continue into the next century and it could fuck things up. Edited August 9 by may be rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 11 hours ago, ignatius said: he's like the R word + a daily dose of low grade speed yes. The same thing is happening in the UK - just misplaced anger. Destroy the social fabric and decimate all forms of community and then divert blame to minorities while the rich get richer and money gets diverted to war and the corporations. Racist riots in the UK are very similar in origin imo. An example - which is ridiculous to the point of parody - I despise LBC - it just exists to humiliate people - nonetheless - it is what it is. Politics is a hobby for the powerful. Starmer said it himself - the time for activist labour is over..and yet what will he actually do? The same is true in the U.S. The two party system is fkd. Activism has achieved a huge amount historically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 10 hours ago, may be rude said: one crazy thing is that we should anticipate that geo engineering will occur this century, and many will jump aboard that train. the debate over geo engineering will continue into the next century and it could fuck things up. we started geo-engineering the moment we started putting all the carbon in the atmosphere. the debate about putting stuff in the stratosphere to deflect sunlight has already begun. more will follow. i suspect we'll do it eventually because politicians don't really have answers so at some point they'll want to look like they're doing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdamAnchorman Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 59 minutes ago, ignatius said: i suspect we'll do it eventually because politicians don't really have answers so at some point they'll want to look like they're doing something. This won't happen until shit gets bad enough where public outcry outweighs the pipeline of $$$ that oil & gas is pumping into the gov't. That balance has a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 10 minutes ago, EdamAnchorman said: This won't happen until shit gets bad enough where public outcry outweighs the pipeline of $$$ that oil & gas is pumping into the gov't. That balance has a long way to go. i suspect the USA will be the last ones to give up fossil fuels. we'll burn all of it that we have domestically just to keep the economy going. energy = economy. at some point there's a chance it will all be nationalized and controlled/prioritized by the federal gov't but who knows.. USA is one of the largest producers of fossil fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans Little Helper Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 44 minutes ago, ignatius said: i suspect the USA will be the last ones to give up fossil fuels. we'll burn all of it that we have domestically just to keep the economy going. energy = economy. at some point there's a chance it will all be nationalized and controlled/prioritized by the federal gov't but who knows.. USA is one of the largest producers of fossil fuels. don't forget the consumers. businesses and corporations tend to cater what consumers want. and of course, us consumers reign supreme. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fossil-fuels-per-capita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 https://truthsocial.com/@KamalaHQ/posts/112917651295728303 trump media and technology group corp. is getting rekt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 25 minutes ago, Rubin Farr said: her only fans will be wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 sorbs is unaware kamala harris drops the bop at the family cookout 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 24 minutes ago, Nebraska said: sorbs is unaware kamala harris drops the bop at the family cookout i know someone who edited the hercules show he was on for years.. or whatever it was called.. she said he was an ass even way back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, Nebraska said: https://truthsocial.com/@KamalaHQ/posts/112917651295728303 trump media and technology group corp. is getting rekt A pro Kamala on Trump’s social media platform? Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 one ass clown interviews another...this ought to be a wild ride into the murky waters of insane bullshit: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/06/elon-musk-trump-interview-harris-walz.html Quote “ON MONDAY NIGHT I’LL BE DOING A MAJOR INTERVIEW WITH ELON MUSK — Details to follow!” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 30 minutes ago, zero said: one ass clown interviews another...this ought to be a wild ride into the murky waters of insane bullshit last time musk did one of these it didn't exactly help him or interviewee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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