wtf is a person supposed to actually do about israel murdering hundreds of innocent civilians.

[Candiru]

If we nuked Israel, blamed it on Greenland, and made a national holiday for beer, we'd level up 76% freedom and send astronauts to Mars while adding 10 more states and winning Super Bowl of the universe.

[zlemflolia]

 

Read Kurt Vonnegut and learn that such brutality is part of humanity.

 

And yet most people everywhere on the planet don't drop bombs on civilians, women and kids included. Such brutality is therefore part of only one very small portion of humanity.

 

Women and kids included?

 

Why is this something that needs to be specifically said, as if it's the default position (and okay) for men to be killed, but if women and kids are also killed it needs to be specified because that's even worse than just men?

[Guest M360]

 

 

 

 

Read Kurt Vonnegut and learn that such brutality is part of humanity.

And yet most people everywhere on the planet don't drop bombs on civilians, women and kids included. Such brutality is therefore part of only one very small portion of humanity.

Women and kids included?

 

Why is this something that needs to be specifically said, as if it's the default position (and okay) for men to be killed, but if women and kids are also killed it needs to be specified because that's even worse than just men?

Because all men should give there lives over a patch of dirt/some guy in power's bank account, and to never question these ultimate truths that have been laid before them ?

[Guest M360]

 

 

 

 

 

Read Kurt Vonnegut and learn that such brutality is part of humanity.

And yet most people everywhere on the planet don't drop bombs on civilians, women and kids included. Such brutality is therefore part of only one very small portion of humanity.

Women and kids included?

 

Why is this something that needs to be specifically said, as if it's the default position (and okay) for men to be killed, but if women and kids are also killed it needs to be specified because that's even worse than just men?

Because all men should give there lives over a patch of dirt/some guy in power's bank account, and to never question these ultimate truths that have been laid before them ?

In less apocalyptic phrasing - you have a good point.

[xox]

was anyone convinced?

[Guest M360]

Partially

[roasty]

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=PDWOP_McMHA#/351;357

[Atop]

95% of everyone are wicked annoying.

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. "[/size]Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region. [/size]

But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Yeah, and nobody seems to give a shit. Just an excuse to kill some Palestinians/"terrorists".

because it doesn't have much to do with current escalation. the idf went on looking for the teenagers in west bank and hamas intensified rocket fire on israel from gaza on for which hamas did take responsibility, israel responded to that and it became what it became. israel didn't start shelling gaza randomly after that quote by netanyahu. the people who are suspected for that murder of teenagers are actual hamas members (who probably did work as a lone wolves), and hamas praised the kidnapping and has a history of kidnappings so it was a very reasonable assumption at the time though it was not unheard of that it might be not the case, it's not like it's a huge fucking revelation of some grand conspiracy.

 

make an effort and try to piece the whole puzzle instead of looking for torn out of context events that confirm to your "israel is evil theory".

I'd like to point out what appears to be serious dishonesty in this post, or at least an unacceptable omission. you say "the idf went looking for the teenagers in the west bank and Hamas intensified rocket fire..." I think "went looking" is a pretty fucked up way of describing what actually happened and reveals the real difficulty you seem to have being honest about this. just wiki 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers. the idf's "looking for" included the demolition of homes, the arrest without charge of hundreds of people, the death of innocent civilians, the confiscation of personal property including jewelry, phones, cars, computers and several hundred thousand in cash all without providing a shred of evidence that there was a single reason to take any of this. mind you, the whole time Netanyahu is insisting that Hamas is responsible without producing a sliver of evidence and there is reason to believe the government already thought the teenagers were dead so this guy was clearly exploiting their deaths and trumping up animosity against Hamas.

 

in your account this can be described as "the idf went looking in the West Bank." most quaint.

[Guest skibby]

what can one person do about any war between nations? if anybody could do anything, it would be heads of state wouldn't it?

[delet...]

lol land swaps, here have the negev. Actually only part of the negev. Oh you built your village there, well the paperwork was wrong we didn't mean right there, we'll have to demolish what you put up. Stop complaining you are being inconsiderate of our generosity. Your water rights and viable land for perhaps a timeshare in the desert, where's the dramma maddafakka.

[eugene]

 

 

 

 

When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. "[/size]Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region. [/size]

But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Yeah, and nobody seems to give a shit. Just an excuse to kill some Palestinians/"terrorists".

because it doesn't have much to do with current escalation. the idf went on looking for the teenagers in west bank and hamas intensified rocket fire on israel from gaza on for which hamas did take responsibility, israel responded to that and it became what it became. israel didn't start shelling gaza randomly after that quote by netanyahu. the people who are suspected for that murder of teenagers are actual hamas members (who probably did work as a lone wolves), and hamas praised the kidnapping and has a history of kidnappings so it was a very reasonable assumption at the time though it was not unheard of that it might be not the case, it's not like it's a huge fucking revelation of some grand conspiracy.

 

make an effort and try to piece the whole puzzle instead of looking for torn out of context events that confirm to your "israel is evil theory".

I'd like to point out what appears to be serious dishonesty in this post, or at least an unacceptable omission. you say "the idf went looking for the teenagers in the west bank and Hamas intensified rocket fire..." I think "went looking" is a pretty fucked up way of describing what actually happened and reveals the real difficulty you seem to have being honest about this. just wiki 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers. the idf's "looking for" included the demolition of homes, the arrest without charge of hundreds of people, the death of innocent civilians, the confiscation of personal property including jewelry, phones, cars, computers and several hundred thousand in cash all without providing a shred of evidence that there was a single reason to take any of this. mind you, the whole time Netanyahu is insisting that Hamas is responsible without producing a sliver of evidence and there is reason to believe the government already thought the teenagers were dead so this guy was clearly exploiting their deaths and trumping up animosity against Hamas.

 

in your account this can be described as "the idf went looking in the West Bank." most quaint.

 

didn't seem too important to get into this here (though i don't know how you concluded that those 5 palesitnian that were killed are innocent, seems like idf bullets seem to turn people into innocent civilians lately). but i'm not lying about this stuff though, here's a post i made on reddit back then in case you doubt me: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/291gbl/heartbreaking_the_un_mocks_israeli_mothers_grief/cigmlxo

[Guest skibby]

this is like, a war, both sides want to win, and aside from the horrors of war, the best an outsider can do is pick a side. no wait, probably the best is to find a way to profit from both sides, but that goes into ethics of which I know little about.

[KovalainenFanBoy]

 

 

 

[Audioblysk]

lol

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

 

 

When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. "[/size]Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region. [/size]

But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Yeah, and nobody seems to give a shit. Just an excuse to kill some Palestinians/"terrorists".

because it doesn't have much to do with current escalation. the idf went on looking for the teenagers in west bank and hamas intensified rocket fire on israel from gaza on for which hamas did take responsibility, israel responded to that and it became what it became. israel didn't start shelling gaza randomly after that quote by netanyahu. the people who are suspected for that murder of teenagers are actual hamas members (who probably did work as a lone wolves), and hamas praised the kidnapping and has a history of kidnappings so it was a very reasonable assumption at the time though it was not unheard of that it might be not the case, it's not like it's a huge fucking revelation of some grand conspiracy.

 

make an effort and try to piece the whole puzzle instead of looking for torn out of context events that confirm to your "israel is evil theory".

I'd like to point out what appears to be serious dishonesty in this post, or at least an unacceptable omission. you say "the idf went looking for the teenagers in the west bank and Hamas intensified rocket fire..." I think "went looking" is a pretty fucked up way of describing what actually happened and reveals the real difficulty you seem to have being honest about this. just wiki 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers. the idf's "looking for" included the demolition of homes, the arrest without charge of hundreds of people, the death of innocent civilians, the confiscation of personal property including jewelry, phones, cars, computers and several hundred thousand in cash all without providing a shred of evidence that there was a single reason to take any of this. mind you, the whole time Netanyahu is insisting that Hamas is responsible without producing a sliver of evidence and there is reason to believe the government already thought the teenagers were dead so this guy was clearly exploiting their deaths and trumping up animosity against Hamas.

in your account this can be described as "the idf went looking in the West Bank." most quaint.

didn't seem too important to get into this here (though i don't know how you concluded that those 5 palesitnian that were killed are innocent, seems like idf bullets seem to turn people into innocent civilians lately). but i'm not lying about this stuff though, here's a post i made on reddit back then in case you doubt me: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/291gbl/heartbreaking_the_un_mocks_israeli_mothers_grief/cigmlxo

the fact it "didn't seem to important" to you reveals your idiotic bias. you've provided no evidence that the people killed were not innocent. do you care to address the demolition of homes, the arrests, the confiscation of personal property including cash? or is does that not seem important to you?

 

I'm uninterested in your reddit posts. I don't even understand reddit. make your case here, clearly.

[MisterE]

i love how every one of eugene's posts has to include some insult to berate the original poster.

 

it's a great way of convincing people you're on the right side of the argument.

yeh and nobody else has posted insulting posts towards eugene, or in other threads directed at anyone ever, to make their posts 'more convincing' to the watmmrs out there who are impressed by name calling. i mean this whole place is built on the ad hominem. pretty sure i've seen you do it too. in fact if you look on the first page of this very thread, for once eugene is simply trying to address things said, with points of his own, up until you start in with a post ending with a sarcastic smiley face, then follow that up with one calling HIM the king of sarcastic condescension. even after that eugene seems to keep his cool. imo eugene can come off just as you described him sometimes (who doesnt tho) but its kinda ironic that youd call him that directly after exhibiting that exact behavior yourself when he hadn't, and then later make the statement about how every one of his posts are somehow offensive to the OP. i just went through the first 4 pages and didn't see eugene make ONE post attacking anyone, but i saw the original poster saying he couldnt express how despicable his opinion of eugene is, eugene being called a dumbass by alco, a moron by alco, and have words put in his mouth numerous times. i'm sure theres probably more than a handful of other outright cases of personal attack shot his way across the entire thread.

 

try being the one debating/arguing with everyone else across an entire thread, get called moron/dumbass/whatever else and see how well composed you remain. my money is on you cracking up a lot harder than eugene has, mesh. and im not even trying to defend him, so much as just commenting on the nature of debate at this place. i'm also not saying i've conducted myself perfectly here, but that's part of my point. you cant hold eugene to standards nobody else is held to just because you disagree with him.

[eugene]

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the bodies of three Israeli teenagers, kidnapped in the West Bank, were found late last month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not mince words. "[/size]Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay," he said, initiating a campaign that eventually escalated into the present conflict in the region. [/size]

But now, officials admit the kidnappings were not Hamas's handiwork after all.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Yeah, and nobody seems to give a shit. Just an excuse to kill some Palestinians/"terrorists".

because it doesn't have much to do with current escalation. the idf went on looking for the teenagers in west bank and hamas intensified rocket fire on israel from gaza on for which hamas did take responsibility, israel responded to that and it became what it became. israel didn't start shelling gaza randomly after that quote by netanyahu. the people who are suspected for that murder of teenagers are actual hamas members (who probably did work as a lone wolves), and hamas praised the kidnapping and has a history of kidnappings so it was a very reasonable assumption at the time though it was not unheard of that it might be not the case, it's not like it's a huge fucking revelation of some grand conspiracy.

 

make an effort and try to piece the whole puzzle instead of looking for torn out of context events that confirm to your "israel is evil theory".

I'd like to point out what appears to be serious dishonesty in this post, or at least an unacceptable omission. you say "the idf went looking for the teenagers in the west bank and Hamas intensified rocket fire..." I think "went looking" is a pretty fucked up way of describing what actually happened and reveals the real difficulty you seem to have being honest about this. just wiki 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers. the idf's "looking for" included the demolition of homes, the arrest without charge of hundreds of people, the death of innocent civilians, the confiscation of personal property including jewelry, phones, cars, computers and several hundred thousand in cash all without providing a shred of evidence that there was a single reason to take any of this. mind you, the whole time Netanyahu is insisting that Hamas is responsible without producing a sliver of evidence and there is reason to believe the government already thought the teenagers were dead so this guy was clearly exploiting their deaths and trumping up animosity against Hamas.

in your account this can be described as "the idf went looking in the West Bank." most quaint.

didn't seem too important to get into this here (though i don't know how you concluded that those 5 palesitnian that were killed are innocent, seems like idf bullets seem to turn people into innocent civilians lately). but i'm not lying about this stuff though, here's a post i made on reddit back then in case you doubt me: http://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/291gbl/heartbreaking_the_un_mocks_israeli_mothers_grief/cigmlxo

the fact it "didn't seem to important" to you reveals your idiotic bias. you've provided no evidence that the people killed were not innocent. do you care to address the demolition of homes, the arrests, the confiscation of personal property including cash? or is does that not seem important to you?

 

I'm uninterested in your reddit posts. I don't even understand reddit. make your case here, clearly.

 

it's you who should provide the evidence because you stated they're innocent civilians. two homes were demolished afaik, those two belonged to the two murderers. all of the stuff that was confiscated belonged to hamas and so are the people who were arrested for questioning, not just some random people on the street. it didn't seem important because my view of the situation is more informed, you have some narrative constructed in your head regarding how events unfolded that you use it to justify hamas rocket attacks, where in fact it's related to the issue of PA delaying their salaries and not necessarily to the events in west bank.

[Alcofribas]

nope. if israel kills people in a military engagement it is up to them to provide proof they were guilty. for you to simply believe they are not innocent makes no sense at all.

 

you claim that you are more informed and the "stuff confiscated belonged to Hamas." please provide a link to evidence of this.

 

there are some other critiques I have but I await your proof that the stolen items belonged to Hamas.

[Alcofribas]

 

i love how every one of eugene's posts has to include some insult to berate the original poster.

 

it's a great way of convincing people you're on the right side of the argument.

 

yeh and nobody else has posted insulting posts towards eugene, or in other threads directed at anyone ever, to make their posts 'more convincing' to the watmmrs out there who are impressed by name calling. i mean this whole place is built on the ad hominem. pretty sure i've seen you do it too. in fact if you look on the first page of this very thread, for once eugene is simply trying to address things said, with points of his own, up until you start in with a post ending with a sarcastic smiley face, then follow that up with one calling HIM the king of sarcastic condescension. even after that eugene seems to keep his cool. imo eugene can come off just as you described him sometimes (who doesnt tho) but its kinda ironic that youd call him that directly after exhibiting that exact behavior yourself when he hadn't, and then later make the statement about how every one of his posts are somehow offensive to the OP. i just went through the first 4 pages and didn't see eugene make ONE post attacking anyone, but i saw the original poster saying he couldnt express how despicable his opinion of eugene is, eugene being called a dumbass by alco, a moron by alco, and have words put in his mouth numerous times. i'm sure theres probably more than a handful of other outright cases of personal attack shot his way across the entire thread.

 

try being the one debating/arguing with everyone else across an entire thread, get called moron/dumbass/whatever else and see how well composed you remain. my money is on you cracking up a lot harder than eugene has, mesh. and im not even trying to defend him, so much as just commenting on the nature of debate at this place. i'm also not saying i've conducted myself perfectly here, but that's part of my point. you cant hold eugene to standards nobody else is held to just because you disagree with him.

just to be clear I'm specifically calling eugene a dumbass etc in the spirit of eugenism. I've tried to be civil with him for many years but he has proven himself incapable of adhering to a higher standard. so basically I'm just goofing around. save your crocodile tears for some other thread, I've never once seen you come in and defend any one from his vile abuse.

[awepittance]

just fyi Reddit mods have been on massive censor rampage since the Gaza massacre, frequently hiding (not deleting, see below) any article that's highly critical of Israel

Dell Cameron of Vice has been keeping track of the censorship effort for the past few weeks.

edit: here is one example of Reddit mods calling essentially what are the same headlines of mainstream media reports 'possibly misleading' taking special issue with users literally repeating the same wording in articles about Gaza from places like BBC or the Guardian. In this specific instance the *mainstream* article making the rounds about Hamas was not responsible for the kidnapping is "misleading", according to Reddit mods




Reddit's been compromised in terms of a free place for controversial political thought for quite a while, it virtually imploded over the NSA/GCHQ paid troll story a few months back. Any story now that the mods deem ' controversial' (including even if it's a headline from CNN) is sent into the r/conspiracy page and not allowed to exist in the regular main news page. Following pretty much the exact same model as mainstream news outlets that censor meaning that censorship is usually not in the modern age simply erasing information, it's about back-paging it to a location most people will either ignore or stop reading before they get to ( in the case of a story being moved to the last pages of a newspaper)

[Alcofribas]

nope. if israel kills people in a military engagement it is up to them to provide proof they were guilty. for you to simply believe they are not innocent makes no sense at all.

you claim that you are more informed and the "stuff confiscated belonged to Hamas." please provide a link to evidence of this.

there are some other critiques I have but I await your proof that the stolen items belonged to Hamas.

bump.

[MisterE]

 

 

try being the one debating/arguing with everyone else across an entire thread, get called moron/dumbass/whatever else and see how well composed you remain. my money is on you cracking up a lot harder than eugene has, mesh. and im not even trying to defend him, so much as just commenting on the nature of debate at this place. i'm also not saying i've conducted myself perfectly here, but that's part of my point. you cant hold eugene to standards nobody else is held to just because you disagree with him.

just to be clear I'm specifically calling eugene a dumbass etc in the spirit of eugenism. I've tried to be civil with him for many years but he has proven himself incapable of adhering to a higher standard. so basically I'm just goofing around. save your crocodile tears for some other thread, I've never once seen you come in and defend any one from his vile abuse.

 

maybe so, but the idea that somehow eugenes past activity not only warrants yours towards him but that he can still be criticized on the grounds of his personal insults (which at least in this current thread seem to be outnumbered by those being launched at him) while they are still being levied at him is just the opposite of smart and honest. you cant do the same thing as someone else while also claiming high ground.

[eugene]

i don't need to believe anything, it's what i know from my own army service. idf's rules of engagement is to shoot back only if the soldier's life is in danger, so the default assumption should be that they don't just randomly shoot people but people who throw molotovs (most common) or shoot at them (like in recent protests near ramallah). idf doesn't provide evidence for every single fart, it's a state army that acts according to laws and orders, so if you doubt the legitimacy of a particular event send them a fax requesting clarification or something. israel closely cooperated with PA during that event, so it's a good indication that they didn't just ransack and rob everything in sight.

[pyramidpanes]

Palestine, Hamas, should really try & follow Gandi's rule of peaceful resistance, how ever difficult that will be, lay down their arms which are useless anyway against such a highly equipped aggressor armed with the latest gear (from the west) to reveal the brutal & evil state of Israel, who are getting away with murder through the excuses 'they are firing (useless) rockets at us' & 'terrorists are using civilians as human shields' which the west continually except

Shame on Israel & shame on the west for being on Israel's side all these years, the arab world really needs to come together & come to Palestine's aid,

Stay strong Palestine