wtf is a person supposed to actually do about israel murdering hundreds of innocent civilians.

[awepittance]

this is not meant to be a joke or mean but thought I would share this:

 

The Zionist Organization of America's president is diagnosed with tourettes syndrome

[Guest skibby]

do any of you guys have a memory of 11:30 AM PST on 9/11/01 where the US media (all 3 networks) played clips at the same time of Palestinians dancing in the streets in apparent celebration of the 9/11 attacks?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E

 

this was literally only one hour after the South tower collapsed, during a national emergency while many americans still weren't aware of the living or dead status of loved ones. This footage has never been proven to A) have been filmed at the time of 9/11 b) to have anything to do with celebrating the 9/11 attacks.

 

Imagine the type of deep seeded emotional imprint this left on Americans who were watching the attacks unfold on that day. Extremely strange. On one hand I can understand them airing it later on but only 1 hour after the tower fell? Does that make sense?

 

 

 

 

maybe they saw the friend of their enemy as an enemy too?

[awepittance]

'clever' memes already exist

[awepittance]

 

maybe they saw the friend of their enemy as an enemy too?

 

you mean as in friends with al qaeda? because they are allegedly celebrating the 9/11 attacks? I mean if they were given this footage by Reuters (which is what was claimed) don't you think they'd want to do a little more fact checking/verifying before broadcasting something so inflammatory only 1 hour after we were told up to 10,000 Americans died in the towers? To this day there has never been proof that the video even shows this.

[QBLA]

do any of you guys have a memory of 11:30 AM PST on 9/11/01 where the US media (all 3 networks) played clips at the same time of Palestinians dancing in the streets in apparent celebration of the 9/11 attacks?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E

 

this was literally only one hour after the South tower collapsed, during a national emergency while many americans still weren't aware of the living or dead status of loved ones. This footage has never been proven to A) have been filmed at the time of 9/11 b) to have anything to do with celebrating the 9/11 attacks.

 

Imagine the type of deep seeded emotional imprint this left on Americans who were watching the attacks unfold on that day. Extremely strange. On one hand I can understand them airing it later on but only 1 hour after the tower fell? Does that make sense?

 

 

 

it would be great to find the actual "1991" footage! http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/cnnpalestinianvideo.htm#.U9sxrPldVIF

[hoggy]

armchair activists

 

we could talk all day with all of these hypothetical solutions to the conflict but what is anybody actually going to do about it?

 

What do you think we should do?

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

armchair activists

 

we could talk all day with all of these hypothetical solutions to the conflict but what is anybody actually going to do about it?

 

What do you think we should do?

 

 

I don't have an answer. I don't know enough about the situation or the complexities of politics to recommend anything.

 

Just an observation (not being judgemental at all), but I see people on both sides getting very mad about it but only talking about it on the internet, coffee shops etc, not sure what that accomplishes (awareness maybe?).

 

I'm not suggesting we not talk about major issues like that.

 

I really have nothing to add here other than in this day and age, lots of people are content to show their support just by clicking "like" on facebook, or chatting about it online. I don't know the implications for society as a whole. Point is I guess that if all the discussion doesn't manifest into something tangible, what has it accomplished, really?

 

Please don't read to much into my post.

[Audioblysk]

While apathy feels better, makes you look cooler, and it's easy to dismiss peoples misguided blurbings into the interwebs as just shallow wash of armchair activism--- The mentality that someone feels when they are 'doing something' even if in the eyes of others it's seen as futile or almost self-absorbed is sometimes all people can do about things like this and the only thing that makes them feel like they are helping. I understand it as such anyways.

 

From the Boondocks-

 

"What do you do when you can't do nothing, but there's nothing you can do?" - Huey

 

"You do what you can." - Granddad

[Guest fiznuthian]

 

 

armchair activists

 

we could talk all day with all of these hypothetical solutions to the conflict but what is anybody actually going to do about it?

 

What do you think we should do?

 

 

I don't have an answer. I don't know enough about the situation or the complexities of politics to recommend anything.

 

Just an observation (not being judgemental at all), but I see people on both sides getting very mad about it but only talking about it on the internet, coffee shops etc, not sure what that accomplishes (awareness maybe?).

 

I'm not suggesting we not talk about major issues like that.

 

I really have nothing to add here other than in this day and age, lots of people are content to show their support just by clicking "like" on facebook, or chatting about it online. I don't know the implications for society as a whole. Point is I guess that if all the discussion doesn't manifest into something tangible, what has it accomplished, really?

 

Please don't read to much into my post.

 

fiznuthian likes this.

[hoggy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anna-hosain/8-ways-to-help-the-people_b_5635388.html

 

How about these ways to help?

[sheatheman]

[hoggy]

yeah but hamas ≠ all palestinians right?

[sheatheman]

that video ≠ "Hamas = All Palestinians"

[LimpyLoo]

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

[delet...]

 

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

 

 

Not really, the palestinians are living in an open air prison camp called gaza, many others are still refugees numbering in their millions in lebanon and elsewhere, the west bank is still being colonized, the gazan offshore gasfields are still being tapped into illegally leaving the gazan's to buy their own gas back from israel at an huge markup. There's nutbags everywhere mate, but the underlying facts remain, and might i add that the palestinian nutbags have a firm grounding of decades of frustrating upon which to hang their their heated complaining, whereas the israelis remain complicit in one of the greatest ongoing crimes of our age and being great shame to the whole of humanity by their evil.

 

As for armchair activism. Yeah whatever, it's through continued and unrelenting discussion that information is disseminated to those that have yet to hitch their wagon to the truth train. Of course we can't change foreign policy when the politicians that most choose to vote for are bought and paid for. Sure there are still many to convert before broad consensus helps the cause reach escape velocity but you'll find that our gentle ripples will work wonders over time and are most certainly not for nothing.

[LimpyLoo]

 

 

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

 

 

Not really, the palestinians are living in an open air prison camp called gaza, many others are still refugees numbering in their millions in lebanon and elsewhere, the west bank is still being colonized, the gazan offshore gasfields are still being tapped into illegally leaving the gazan's to buy their own gas back from israel at an huge markup. There's nutbags everywhere mate, but the underlying facts remain, and might i add that the palestinian nutbags have a firm grounding of decades of frustrating upon which to hang their their heated complaining, whereas the israelis remain complicit in one of the greatest ongoing crimes of our age and being great shame to the whole of humanity by their evil.

 

As for armchair activism. Yeah whatever, it's through continued and unrelenting discussion that information is disseminated to those that have yet to hitch their wagon to the truth train. Of course we can't change foreign policy when the politicians that most choose to vote for are bought and paid for. Sure there are still many to convert before broad consensus helps the cause reach escape velocity but you'll find that our gentle ripples will work wonders over time and are most certainly not for nothing.

 

 

Yeah you're probably right.

[LimpyLoo]

...but I still get worried when a leader evokes his god's name and announces he's gonna exterminate another religious group.

[Lane Visitor]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

 

 

Not really, the palestinians are living in an open air prison camp called gaza, many others are still refugees numbering in their millions in lebanon and elsewhere, the west bank is still being colonized, the gazan offshore gasfields are still being tapped into illegally leaving the gazan's to buy their own gas back from israel at an huge markup. There's nutbags everywhere mate, but the underlying facts remain, and might i add that the palestinian nutbags have a firm grounding of decades of frustrating upon which to hang their their heated complaining, whereas the israelis remain complicit in one of the greatest ongoing crimes of our age and being great shame to the whole of humanity by their evil.

 

As for armchair activism. Yeah whatever, it's through continued and unrelenting discussion that information is disseminated to those that have yet to hitch their wagon to the truth train. Of course we can't change foreign policy when the politicians that most choose to vote for are bought and paid for. Sure there are still many to convert before broad consensus helps the cause reach escape velocity but you'll find that our gentle ripples will work wonders over time and are most certainly not for nothing.

 

it's funny, hamas' genocidal hatred and goals are right there out clear in the open, and yet still people make excuses for it... there are tons more videos of proof of what hamas is all about... but it seems some people don't care. it's all about blasting the guy with the bigger gun & more power, regardless of intent, regardless of character, regardless of whether it's defense of offense.. doesn't matter, right? you have an open call for genocide right there, with hamas firing offensive rockets every day, and people go mehh, look at the lack of israeli deaths (b/c they have walls/blockade to defend themselves- ya know, that whole "apartheid" thing)... and now look at the other side's deaths! (civilian casualties due to hamas hiding within their civilian population) and then ppl say.. well.. they have a lot of grounds to be frustrated.. yeah, germany's economy was pretty fucked up too.. ya know, there may have been grounds for the ideology there.. people are oppressed, starving/frustrating... singling out and teaching to hate and kill a religious group in those cases, are ok right? sounds like excuse after excuse to not call out terror for what it is... hamas wants israel and jews gone entirely, not just to have the blockade lifted. In 1999, Mein Kamf was the 6th best seller among PA territories, (MEMRI- http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/292.htm), and yet do you see me or most israel supporters claiming that palestinians are "evil" like you guys toss around the word about israel? sure there are nutcases out there, which you have everywhere..but you don't even hear Netanyahu or Israeli/Jewish media sources calling Palestinians evil or calling for their death. Hell most Jewish/Israel press like haaretz stands with Palestinians- often more than the Israeli government. Ha, talk about israel in general being evil (when they allow arab seats on the knesset/give warnings before defensive attacks etc)... like really if Israel was "evil" and wanted to commit genocide, don't you think they'd have expanded and killed and taken over by now with all the aid, weaponry etc that the west gives them, which many of you are so critical of? thats cuz its for defense, not offense. isreal aint evil. either way, id never call an entire country or whole people evil no matter the circumstances... whether its north korea, yemen, iran, or wherever. the government is responsible for their actions. i expect the same sentiment and lack of ignorance out of any mature respectable person.

[sheatheman]

The question of Syria is a good one. What is happening there should be enraging us much more than Gaza.

 

But Gaza is trendier due to muslim v jew (i.e. bash Israel fun time[i.e. I'm from iceland and I am informed about geopolitics]).

 

The death toll in Syria is around 160,000. But due to it makes muslims look kinda bad, no press.

 

inciting content hidden for kindness:

 

Muslims are responsible for world wide chaos. The only difference is that Israel has the best military in the world, and their missiles have no setting lower than 11. It's understandable tho, when there are people tweeting #HitlerWasRight, for real, right now.

 

All of you are under the influence of the global anti Iz trend. Your opinions are not your own, even though you think you are so original, probably how some Germans thought they were super original, sipping coffee in a warm cafe while smirking as starving Jews passed by on the street.

 

[sheatheman]

Europeans are history's lemmings.

(not you)

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

Not really, the palestinians are living in an open air prison camp called gaza, many others are still refugees numbering in their millions in lebanon and elsewhere, the west bank is still being colonized, the gazan offshore gasfields are still being tapped into illegally leaving the gazan's to buy their own gas back from israel at an huge markup. There's nutbags everywhere mate, but the underlying facts remain, and might i add that the palestinian nutbags have a firm grounding of decades of frustrating upon which to hang their their heated complaining, whereas the israelis remain complicit in one of the greatest ongoing crimes of our age and being great shame to the whole of humanity by their evil.

 

As for armchair activism. Yeah whatever, it's through continued and unrelenting discussion that information is disseminated to those that have yet to hitch their wagon to the truth train. Of course we can't change foreign policy when the politicians that most choose to vote for are bought and paid for. Sure there are still many to convert before broad consensus helps the cause reach escape velocity but you'll find that our gentle ripples will work wonders over time and are most certainly not for nothing.

it's funny, hamas' genocidal hatred and goals are right there out clear in the open, and yet still people make excuses for it... there are tons more videos of proof of what hamas is all about... but it seems some people don't care. it's all about blasting the guy with the bigger gun & more power, regardless of intent, regardless of character, regardless of whether it's defense of offense.. doesn't matter, right? you have an open call for genocide right there, with hamas firing offensive rockets every day, and people go mehh, look at the lack of israeli deaths (b/c they have walls/blockade to defend themselves- ya know, that whole "apartheid" thing)... and now look at the other side's deaths! (civilian casualties due to hamas hiding within their civilian population) and then ppl say.. well.. they have a lot of grounds to be frustrated.. yeah, germany's economy was pretty fucked up too.. ya know, there may have been grounds for the ideology there.. people are oppressed, starving/frustrating... singling out and teaching to hate and kill a religious group in those cases, are ok right? sounds like excuse after excuse to not call out terror for what it is... hamas wants israel and jews gone entirely, not just to have the blockade lifted. In 1999, Mein Kamf was the 6th best seller among PA territories, (MEMRI- http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/292.htm), and yet do you see me or most israel supporters claiming that palestinians are "evil" like you guys toss around the word about israel? sure there are nutcases out there, which you have everywhere..but you don't even hear Netanyahu or Israeli/Jewish media sources calling Palestinians evil or calling for their death. Hell most Jewish/Israel press like haaretz stands with Palestinians- often more than the Israeli government. Ha, talk about israel in general being evil (when they allow arab seats on the knesset/give warnings before defensive attacks etc)... like really if Israel was "evil" and wanted to commit genocide, don't you think they'd have expanded and killed and taken over by now with all the aid, weaponry etc that the west gives them, which many of you are so critical of? thats cuz its for defense, not offense. isreal aint evil. either way, id never call an entire country or whole people evil no matter the circumstances... whether its north korea, yemen, iran, or wherever. the government is responsible for their actions. i expect the same sentiment and lack of ignorance out of any mature respectable person.

 

 

 

 

 

Well that's one strike against the "it has nothing to do with religion" argument.

Not really, the palestinians are living in an open air prison camp called gaza, many others are still refugees numbering in their millions in lebanon and elsewhere, the west bank is still being colonized, the gazan offshore gasfields are still being tapped into illegally leaving the gazan's to buy their own gas back from israel at an huge markup. There's nutbags everywhere mate, but the underlying facts remain, and might i add that the palestinian nutbags have a firm grounding of decades of frustrating upon which to hang their their heated complaining, whereas the israelis remain complicit in one of the greatest ongoing crimes of our age and being great shame to the whole of humanity by their evil.

 

As for armchair activism. Yeah whatever, it's through continued and unrelenting discussion that information is disseminated to those that have yet to hitch their wagon to the truth train. Of course we can't change foreign policy when the politicians that most choose to vote for are bought and paid for. Sure there are still many to convert before broad consensus helps the cause reach escape velocity but you'll find that our gentle ripples will work wonders over time and are most certainly not for nothing.

it's funny, hamas' genocidal hatred and goals are right there out clear in the open, and yet still people make excuses for it... there are tons more videos of proof of what hamas is all about... but it seems some people don't care. it's all about blasting the guy with the bigger gun & more power, regardless of intent, regardless of character, regardless of whether it's defense of offense.. doesn't matter, right? you have an open call for genocide right there, with hamas firing offensive rockets every day, and people go mehh, look at the lack of israeli deaths (b/c they have walls/blockade to defend themselves- ya know, that whole "apartheid" thing)... and now look at the other side's deaths! (civilian casualties due to hamas hiding within their civilian population) and then ppl say.. well.. they have a lot of grounds to be frustrated.. yeah, germany's economy was pretty fucked up too.. ya know, there may have been grounds for the ideology there.. people are oppressed, starving/frustrating... singling out and teaching to hate and kill a religious group in those cases, are ok right? sounds like excuse after excuse to not call out terror for what it is... hamas wants israel and jews gone entirely, not just to have the blockade lifted. In 1999, Mein Kamf was the 6th best seller among PA territories, (MEMRI- http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/292.htm), and yet do you see me or most israel supporters claiming that palestinians are "evil" like you guys toss around the word about israel? sure there are nutcases out there, which you have everywhere..but you don't even hear Netanyahu or Israeli/Jewish media sources calling Palestinians evil or calling for their death. Hell most Jewish/Israel press like haaretz stands with Palestinians- often more than the Israeli government. Ha, talk about israel in general being evil (when they allow arab seats on the knesset/give warnings before defensive attacks etc)... like really if Israel was "evil" and wanted to commit genocide, don't you think they'd have expanded and killed and taken over by now with all the aid, weaponry etc that the west gives them, which many of you are so critical of? thats cuz its for defense, not offense. isreal aint evil. either way, id never call an entire country or whole people evil no matter the circumstances... whether its north korea, yemen, iran, or wherever. the government is responsible for their actions. i expect the same sentiment and lack of ignorance out of any mature respectable person.

curious to see the outrage over calls for genocide considering that today the times of israel just ran a racist oped titled "when genocide is permissible." also ayet shaked (Israeli Knesset member) recently posted a disgusting racist rant about "war against the Palestinian people." and perhaps you've seen there's been a lot more violent protests from the Israeli right with such touching slogans as "death to Arabs" and "tomorrow there is no school in gaza, all their children are dead." over the past few years the netanyahu's grotesque right government has grown more in power and there is a growing hardcore among Israeli population that is becoming less of a fringe. if you're interested in a journalistic account you can read about this in max blumenthal's book on this very issue. you might also wish to keep in mind netanyahu's peaceful words on the eve of this war after the three Israeli teens were murdered: "Vengeance for the blood of a small child, Satan has not yet created." your comments on Netanyahu are genuinely laughable. that guy has says horrible shit about Palestinians all the time dude. and avigdor leiberman. flol man what planet are you living on. I encourage you to look up these guys and pretend they are Hamas talking about Jews and come back here and tell me you are cool with it. and btw, as for those Arabs in the Knesset, you might want to look up how they were treated when this war began. ffs.

 

I honestly don't know how any one can genuinely believe that the overwhelming civilian deaths in gaza are the result of Hamas "hiding" in civilian areas. it's totally disconnected from reality. look at shujaiyya, look at khuzza, read the fucking un accounts of the bombings of schools and hospitals. israel wants to destroy Hamas but they know they can't just go into gaza and shoot all of its members. so in my view they're beating the shit out of gaza hoping that when it's all over and the Palestinians see the horror of it all they'll blame Hamas for not helping them. it's happened before. already Palestinians are blaming Hamas and fatah on these grounds.

 

i mean, Israeli government has often been very explicit about this. in the words of zeev moaz, "Arabs understand only the language of force." so that's what they'll get from israel. and just for good measure here's a graffiti in a Palestinian home from your beloved defense forces:

 

"ARabs need 2 die'', "Arabs are pieces of shit'' and "1 is DOWN 999,999 TO GO''.

 

they just like, want to defend themselves from the bad guys and stuff.

as for Shea: the flaw in your argument is simple, viz, no one supports what's going on in Syria and the death toll and violence is pretty much universally condemned. there is no "israel" in that conflict.

[Hoodie]

...but I still get worried when a leader evokes his god's name and announces he's gonna exterminate another religious group.

 

hitler had such wide support because of how the world powers punished germany after world war 1. you can see the same thing happening in gaza with hamas. war breeds radicalism and you can see it growing on both sides. there is some horrific shit happening right now in gaza, and it's been happening for years. is it so surprising that people there are turning their frustration, fear, sorrow, and anger into hatred?

 

i don't know what the solution is at this point. maybe a couple of decades ago, some kind of deal could have been made. today? people who have nothing left normally will not make peace with the group that utterly demolished their lives.

[usagi]

... today the times of israel just ran a racist oped titled "when genocide is permissible."

you're shitting me.

[Alcofribas]

also, I didn't read Shea's spoiler. wow. I genuinely don't even know how to respond to shit like that. yeah bra, #muslimsareresponsibleforworldwidechaos. go super military israel. save us from da bad guys. death to Arabs.

 

... today the times of israel just ran a racist oped titled "when genocide is permissible."

you're shitting me.

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/yochanan-genocide-permissible.html

[MisterE]

alco its pretty absurd how after i mentioned the syria thing you actually tried to act confused about why i would suggest that the death toll is an important factor in how much attention we give a thing. the whole premise of this thread, and the concern for whats going on over there, is very clearly laid on the loss of life. not only that but on how israel's military responses are disproportionate to their own losses. so when i point out that the media and people here and elsewhere are doing the same thing, giving an amount of attention to THESE particular casualties, which is also disproportionate, because there are far greater death tolls elsewhere that don't get that same amount of attention (or little to none)... it's no surprise to me that you'd either not get that point or scoff at it or whatever. but it's built on the crux of the whole topic, which is laid out in the thread title, it's laid out in several posts, in the UN guy crying, the main thing here is the loss of life. it calls into question how genuine the concern over these lives being lost really is when that concern is lacking for other places where the intensity of the human suffering/death is much greater.

 

but the funny part is that in that post you totally agreed with both parts of my main point. you basically re-stated what i was saying.

a) it's really NOT about the loss of life

b) it's about the "jewish problem"

 

you said that. you said that in a post that was somehow in disagreement with me while completely confirming that what i was saying is true. those two things were the entire point of what i was saying and you totally confirmed yourself that both of them are the case. it wasn't me who made it about the loss of life. it was everyone crying for the casualties in gaza. but if i or anyone else says 'hey FAR more people are dying over here, and you aren't crying for them', then you actually say 'well why would you act like this is about death tolls?' then 'its about the jewish problem'. no shit. so where do we disagree here exactly?

 

oh but look, you're already right back to making it about the casualties in gaza after being supposedly perplexed about why i would talk about death tolls as being some kind of measuring stick in where our concern might be focused: "....believe that the overwhelming civilian deaths in gaza...." so it IS about the deaths in gaza????????????????????????????????????? which are vastly outnumbered by those in syria?? i think its pretty clear the only unit on your measuring stick is 'jew'. ha i mean the fact that you put "jewish problem" in quotes speaks volumes doesnt it? the violence in syria may be condemned but that condemnation doesn't seem to be vocalized in anything remotely resembling proportionate to the death toll there. but as you say, israel isnt involved.