2020 US Election

[EdamAnchorman]

22 minutes ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:

And the DNC need to learn, they need to drown in the stench of their failure.

That's what I thought in 2016, I thought they'd learn for sure, but they obviously haven't.

[YangYing]

5 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

I think both Sanders and Biden can possibly beat Trump. Bernie even still has a small chance to win the nomination, though it seems unlikely right now. I can't really tell who would be better at beating Trump. Maybe some wise scholar of WATMM can tell me the definite answer

From what I understand unless the economy takes a proper hit from this coronavirus thing or anything else then trump will probably win again...

[goDel]

 

 

[Candiru]

15 minutes ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:

ever heard of burden of proof dude

idk if he can. he probably wouldn't. but biden defs wouldn't.

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. 

[Nebraska]

4 hours ago, joshuatxuk said:

I think her base is about 50/50 Biden/Sanders, anecdotally I noticed her supporters were either educated millennials who will def prefer Bernie or older liberals who will fall back on Biden.

well, she's taking her usual useless, frustrating stance of "not endorsing anyone yet" until it doesn't matter because there is 1 clear nominee then she endorses them

as for who can beat trump betwix biden and sanders: i think it's a matter of who can draw/rally more voters. trump's base will show up in fear of losing the stronghold they believe they currently hold- but who do you think can actually motivate enough people to go vote for them? biden or sanders?

[ignatius]

[auxien]

primary might as well be over, lock the thread.

choose your fighter. no matter who wins we all lose

[chenGOD]

53 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

who do you think can actually motivate enough people to go vote for them? biden or sanders

Sanders apparently can’t even get them out for the primary, let alone the general...

[Nebraska]

^^ coincidentally, the DNC has never done anything against bernie. it's always been his supporters that somehow raise $46 million but never show up to tick his name in the ballot box.

not to mention nobody wants to vote for a guy that never held a real job until he was 41

 

[chenGOD]

^^ sure but how is what happened four years again relevant to the fact that Sanders continues to attack the Democrat Party, and young voters aren’t getting out like they needed to? See points 2 and 3: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/04/811868704/5-takeaways-from-super-tuesday-and-joe-bidens-big-night

[Lada Laika]

1 hour ago, auxien said:

primary might as well be over, lock the thread.

choose your fighter. no matter who wins we all lose

somebody with photoshop better make a mock up of the Aliens vs Predator poster but with these guys

 

WHOEVER WINS.... WE LOSE

[zlemflolia]

5 hours ago, W23 said:

I’m convinced that the DNC is ok with four more years of Trump.

as the liberal reactionary wing of the Democratic-Republican party, there's no doubt that many within the DNC would prefer Trump, who will protect the interests of capital over all else, over Bernie, who plans to dismantle the health insurance and fossil fuel industry, and tax the rich heavily (wealth tax, stock trade tax).  They would happily let poor people die to make sure their donors are happy.

[Nebraska]

23 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

^^ sure but how is what happened four years again relevant to the fact that Sanders continues to attack the Democrat Party, and young voters aren’t getting out like they needed to? See points 2 and 3: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/04/811868704/5-takeaways-from-super-tuesday-and-joe-bidens-big-night

unfortunately, the DNC does have problems- which is why he attacks them- which is why they vote against him. his stance is that he's running a campaign for working class people. do they want corporations influencing government, because it happened four years ago and is still happening now: eg. see any of hillary's comments towards bernie. 

could be any number of reasons young voters aren't showing up from not giving a shit about politics, not supportive of any of the candidates, not confident their votes would make a difference (due to my previous point) to any other reason. 

i also see the current predicament indicative of the atmosphere in the country as a whole. every candidate has some health issues (the country is debating whether or not to have medicare). corruption in politics (trump's swamp. biden's son/russia witch ties plus russia interfering with elections. sanders vs DNC). wealth inequality (billionaires buying election, trump ally owning a big piece of twitter, super pac interference)

i see biden offering the above status quo- and even more likely, by proxy. 

[user]

Sorry to shit up this thread with a basic bitch question but; why were there no democratic vs republican debates during/before the primaries? I remember al these debates with a bunch of candidates from both parties (lol) during the last election and this time there are none? 

[chenGOD]

42 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

unfortunately, the DNC does have problems- which is why he attacks them- which is why they vote against him. his stance is that he's running a campaign for working class people. do they want corporations influencing government, because it happened four years ago and is still happening now: eg. see any of hillary's comments towards bernie. 

could be any number of reasons young voters aren't showing up from not giving a shit about politics, not supportive of any of the candidates, not confident their votes would make a difference (due to my previous point) to any other reason. 

i also see the current predicament indicative of the atmosphere in the country as a whole. every candidate has some health issues (the country is debating whether or not to have medicare). corruption in politics (trump's swamp. biden's son/russia witch ties plus russia interfering with elections. sanders vs DNC). wealth inequality (billionaires buying election, trump ally owning a big piece of twitter, super pac interference)

i see biden offering the above status quo- and even more likely, by proxy. 

Sure the DNC has problems. Is his strategy a smart one? I don’t think so. 
Therein lies the rub for Sanders: youth are the ones he can offer the most to,  but because they don’t give a shit about politics (in enough numbers to make the crucial difference) he won’t get elected by focusing on them. 
 

It’s really a shame, because I do think he and warren could have made a significant, positive difference in the direction of your country. I fully agree that Biden offers little in the way do progressive policies. But the results of the primaries beg the question: why so much success? 
im very surprised that Biden has that much more pull with black voters, given that the Black Panthers were largely a Marxist movement, and MLK jr was a socialist. 
 

I just hope that if it is in fact Biden who emerges, that all democrats get behind him. He will be better for the country than another four years of Trump. 

[zlemflolia]

5 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Sure the DNC has problems. Is his strategy a smart one? I don’t think so. 
Therein lies the rub for Sanders: youth are the ones he can offer the most to,  but because they don’t give a shit about politics (in enough numbers to make the crucial difference) he won’t get elected by focusing on them. 
 

It’s really a shame, because I do think he and warren could have made a significant, positive difference in the direction of your country. I fully agree that Biden offers little in the way do progressive policies. But the results of the primaries beg the question: why so much success? 
im very surprised that Biden has that much more pull with black voters, given that the Black Panthers were largely a Marxist movement, and MLK jr was a socialist. 
 

I just hope that if it is in fact Biden who emerges, that all democrats get behind him. He will be better for the country than another four years of Trump. 

MLK's socialism has been almost completely whitewashed in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if many people don't know he was a socialist.  And none of the revolutionary Marxist nature of the Black Panthers has been preserved in popular memory in the US.

[Nebraska]

47 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

Sure the DNC has problems. Is his strategy a smart one? I don’t think so. 

i do. it's an honest strategy.

biden has a pull with black voters because of any number of reasons: corruption within the DNC ensures super pacs can sway community leaders who in turn endorse whoever they prop up, ensuring a comfortable choice. further this with the frustration, anger, lack of interest and fatigue of political divisiveness and the usual results of seriously capitalistic mind that says "look out for yourself first and others only if they further your best interest second" and you've got some bad (?) choices made for all the wrong reasons.

in the words of some guy that had no idea what he was talking about:

Imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that make them terribly unhappy, then gives them the drugs to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction? It is already happening to some extent in our own society... Instead of removing the conditions that make people depressed, modern society gives them antidepressant drugs. In effect, antidepressants are a means of modifying an individual's internal state in such a way as to enable him to tolerate social conditions that he would otherwise find intolerable.

you're right when you say younger voters don't show up to vote as much as older voters- and this may be just a casualty of whatever generation you wish to attribute it to or, the natural de-generation of our species (did brits vote correctly to get out of the .eu?)

the success you're questioning is something that was predicted early on (oddly enough, even trump said the DNC would try and steal it from "crazy bernie" again)- and thats the corruption that keeps the democratic party rockin' and rollin'

 

[chenGOD]

22 minutes ago, Nebraska said:

i do. it's an honest strategy.

biden has a pull with black voters because of any number of reasons: corruption within the DNC ensures super pacs can sway community leaders who in turn endorse whoever they prop up, ensuring a comfortable choice. further this with the frustration, anger, lack of interest and fatigue of political divisiveness and the usual results of seriously capitalistic mind that says "look out for yourself first and others only if they further your best interest second" and you've got some bad (?) choices made for all the wrong reasons.

in the words of some guy that had no idea what he was talking about:

Imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that make them terribly unhappy, then gives them the drugs to take away their unhappiness. Science fiction? It is already happening to some extent in our own society... Instead of removing the conditions that make people depressed, modern society gives them antidepressant drugs. In effect, antidepressants are a means of modifying an individual's internal state in such a way as to enable him to tolerate social conditions that he would otherwise find intolerable.

you're right when you say younger voters don't show up to vote as much as older voters- and this may be just a casualty of whatever generation you wish to attribute it to or, the natural de-generation of our species (did brits vote correctly to get out of the .eu?)

the success you're questioning is something that was predicted early on (oddly enough, even trump said the DNC would try and steal it from "crazy bernie" again)- and thats the corruption that keeps the democratic party rockin' and rollin'

 

You can be honest but strategically smart. Attacking the leadership of the Democratic Party while trying to court votes from people who have voted for said leaders throughout their lives is not a smart strategy. 
 

Ask yourself this, why do you think Trump is pushing for Sanders to be the nominee?

[ignatius]

2 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

You can be honest but strategically smart. Attacking the leadership of the Democratic Party while trying to court votes from people who have voted for said leaders throughout their lives is not a smart strategy. 
 

Ask yourself this, why do you think Trump is pushing for Sanders to be the nominee?

i don't think he is. i think he's just trying to create division and doubt etc. he attacks.. that what he does. that's his one skill or whatever. 

i think sanders was counting on more young voters coming out to offset any "blue dog" democrats or centrists.  hasn't really worked out that way. also i think a lot of people are lazy when it comes to thinking.. or just lack the ability to overcome their fear and be enthusiastic. it's not like voting for Obama who in 2008 talked a very hopeful and even progressive game and had that swagger. he's a great speaker and can communicate so well and people believed him. won't get into so deep analysis because ugh fucking tired and not really caring enough and Obama is kinda obvious to figure out. 

sanders painted himself into a corner in some ways. it's challenging puzzle.

[Lada Laika]

3 hours ago, user said:

Sorry to shit up this thread with a basic bitch question but; why were there no democratic vs republican debates during/before the primaries? I remember al these debates with a bunch of candidates from both parties (lol) during the last election and this time there are none? 

There was no incumbent President in 2016.

[goDel]

4 hours ago, chenGOD said:

^^ sure but how is what happened four years again relevant to the fact that Sanders continues to attack the Democrat Party, and young voters aren’t getting out like they needed to? See points 2 and 3: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/04/811868704/5-takeaways-from-super-tuesday-and-joe-bidens-big-night

The unfortunate thing about that analysis is that it never mentions anything about absolute turnout. It might still be the case that in absolute terms the turnout amongst young voters might exceed those of the past, but compaired to the turnout of the older voters is still relatively lacking. 

And this absolute turnout is what is going to matter during the general election. 

I've read some analysis of 2020 Sanders having lower turnout than 2016 Sanders. In absolute numbers, that is. If true, I'd consider that an electability issue. Especially when the overall turnout in this primary is higher than the 2016 primary. Consider this speculation though, as I'm still waiting for a good final analysis that goes beyond punditry. (Waiting for 538)

 

[chenGOD]

29 minutes ago, goDel said:

The unfortunate thing about that analysis is that it never mentions anything about absolute turnout.

from the npr article:

Quote

 

Before Tuesday, voters younger than 30 were not keeping pace with the overall increase in voter turnout. In fact, young voters' share of the electorate went down in three of the first four states compared with 2016.

On Tuesday night, not a single state saw an increase in young voters' share of the electorate, according to exit polls conducted by Edison Research and sponsored by several of the television networks.

 

 

[goDel]

Scanned it too quickly! Thanks.

Looks like Sanders is simply underperforming. Interesting to see the Bernie bros dealing with this bit of info. As their current argument seems to be built on the primary being rigged against Sanders.

[zlemflolia]

9 minutes ago, goDel said:

Scanned it too quickly! Thanks.

Looks like Sanders is simply underperforming. Interesting to see the Bernie bros dealing with this bit of info. As their current argument seems to be built on the primary being rigged against Sanders.

this is a naive interpretation of the argument, which is that corporate interests and literal corporate ownership of the media results in hegemonic consent manufacturing for the establishment candidate, and that's everyone except bernie, and it has now become biden.  if you watch american mainstream media for a few days and try to count how often anyone says anything good about bernie and talks within a context of the possibility of him actually winning, and that being a good thing, you will not even have to take out your second hand because it barely happens, and when it does the person gets talked over immediately.  it's biden 24/7, you'd think they were B(iden)NN and MSNBiden.  this has an effect on voters, it's dishonest to claim otherwise, it borders on propaganda.

that's not taking into account the existence of superdelegates, which pretty obviously, back when it wasn't a two-person race and there was a higher risk of nobody winning by a majority, made it clear that the superdelegates were not in bernie's favor

if you can't tell which candidate mainstream media supports by watching it then idk what to tell you, and if you don't think mainstream media has an influence on voting then you're denying reality.  there's a reason all the corporate donors want everyone except bernie.

he's going to fuck them up the ass like they deserve, for us, and mainstream media only exists as a talking head for bourgeois interests

 

the news cycle's very short memory also works in favor of the establishment when they want it to, like when buttigieg won the Iowa caucus and they talked about it all day long until it become basically a statistical tie, but it's too late, they're not going to give bernie equal coverage, the time has passed and there are other things to cover

this isn't even taking into account purged voter rolls and other voter suppression tactics which disproportionately hurt latinx voter turnout

there is no such thing as "Bernie bros", there are people who support Bernie (and maybe have Warren as a second choice), and there are people who are conservative reactionaries who want poor people to die, and those people are bad people.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Zeffolia

[Nebraska]

2 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Ask yourself this, why do you think Trump is pushing for Sanders to be the nominee?

he's not pushing for bernie to win: he's simply pointing out to the corruption of the "swamp". stealing the nomination from bernie is an example of how the DNC cannibalizes their own; similar to how the left attacked jk rowling and stephen king not too long ago when their tweets didn't appeal to the accepted narrative. 
it also helps him appeal to bernie supporters, should he loose.

i'm not sure if you're understanding that the DNC is funded by donor money- which makes it corrupt because it is beholden to the highest bidder. so biden isn't the choice you have (or rather we have) but the choice we're given. sanders is a choice we can make. trump is the choice we have to live with.