2020 US Election

[Nebraska]

i agree with this. in fact, in november no need to vote. let's just elect biden in private and save everyone the hassle. remember: he served with obama 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Nebraska

[goDel]

Prolly fake news ;D

 

[dingformung]

 

[caze]

god damn this lady is dumb. horseshoe theory in full effect. the only way to make a 3rd party in the US is to start from the ground up, if they can't even win seats in a state senate, they'll never achieve anything nationally, after that they'd need to win seats in congress and the senate. flol, she's just advocated a Tulsi Gabbard/Ivanka Trump ticket. 

[dingformung]

 

[zlemflolia]

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/03/02/class-little-word-elites-want-you-forget

>

Class: The Little Word the Elites Want You to Forget

The culture wars give the oligarchs, both Democrats and Republicans, the cover to continue the pillage.

by

Chris Hedges

 

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Aristotle, Niccolò Machiavelli, Alexis de Tocqueville, Adam Smith and Karl Marx grounded their philosophies in the understanding that there is a natural antagonism between the rich and the rest of us. The interests of the rich are not our interests. The truths of the rich are not our truths. The lives of the rich are not our lives. Great wealth not only breeds contempt for those who do not have it but it empowers oligarchs to pay armies of lawyers, publicists, politicians, judges, academics and journalists to censure and control public debate and stifle dissent. Neoliberalism, deindustrialization, the destruction of labor unions, slashing and even eliminating the taxes of the rich and corporations, free trade, globalization, the surveillance state, endless war and austerity—the ideologies or tools used by the oligarchs to further their own interests — are presented to the public as natural law, the mechanisms for social and economic progress, even as the oligarchs dynamite the foundations of a liberal democracy and exacerbate a climate crisis that threatens to extinguish human life.

Oligarchic rule must be destroyed. If we fail, our democracy, and finally our species, will become extinct.

The oligarchs are happy to talk about race. They are happy to talk about sexual identity and gender. They are happy to talk about patriotism. They are happy to talk about religion. They are happy to talk about immigration. They are happy to talk about abortion. They are happy to talk about gun control. They are happy to talk about cultural degeneracy or cultural freedom. They are not happy to talk about class. Race, gender, religion, abortion, immigration, gun control, culture and patriotism are issues used to divide the public, to turn neighbor against neighbor, to fuel virulent hatreds and antagonisms. The culture wars give the oligarchs, both Democrats and Republicans, the cover to continue the pillage. There are few substantial differences between the two ruling political parties in the United States. This is why oligarchs like Donald Trump and Michael Bloomberg can switch effortlessly from one party to the other. Once oligarchs seize power, Aristotle wrote, a society must either accept tyranny or choose revolution.

The United States stood on the cusp of revolution—a fact President Franklin Roosevelt acknowledged in his private correspondence — amid the breakdown of capitalism in the 1930s. Roosevelt responded by aggressively curbing the power of the oligarchs. The federal government dealt with massive unemployment by creating 12 million jobs through the Works Progress Administration (WPA), making the government the largest employer in the country. It legalized unions, many of which had been outlawed, and through the National Labor Relations Act empowered organizing. It approved banking regulations, including the Emergency Banking Act, the Banking Act and the Securities Act, all in 1933, to prevent another stock market crash. The Federal Emergency Relief Administration provided the equivalent in today’s money of $9.88 billion for relief operations in cities and states. The Democratic president heavily taxed the rich and corporations. (The Republican administration of Dwight Eisenhower in the 1950s was still taxing the highest earners at 91%.) Roosevelt’s administration instituted programs such as Social Security and a public pension program. It provided financial assistance to tenant farmers and migrant workers. It funded arts and culture. It created the United States Housing Authority and instituted the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, which established the minimum wage and set a limit on mandatory work hours. This heavy government intervention lifted the country out of the Great Depression. It also made Roosevelt, who was elected to an unprecedented fourth term, and the Democratic Party wildly popular among working and middle-class families. The Democratic Party, should it resurrect such policies, would win every election in a landslide.

But the New Deal was the bête noire of the oligarchs. They began to undo Roosevelt’s New Deal even before World War II broke out at the end of 1941. They gradually dismantled the regulations and programs that had not only saved capitalism but arguably democracy itself. We now live in an oligarchic state. The oligarchs control politics, the economy, culture, education and the press. Donald Trump may be a narcissist and a con artist, but he savages the oligarchic elite in his long-winded speeches to the delight of his crowds. He, like Bernie Sanders, speaks about the forbidden topic — class. But Trump, though an embarrassment to the oligarchs, does not, like Sanders, pose a genuine threat to them. Trump will, like all demagogues, incite violence against the vulnerable, widen the cultural and social divides and consolidate tyranny, but he will leave the rich alone. It is Sanders whom the oligarchs fear and hate.

The Democratic Party elites will use any mechanism, no matter how nefarious and undemocratic, to prevent Sanders from obtaining the nomination. The New York Times interviewed 93 of the more than 700 superdelegates, appointed by the party and permitted to vote in the second round if no candidate receives the required 1,991 delegates to win in the first round. Most of those interviewed said they would seek to prevent Sanders from being the nominee if he did not have a majority of delegates in the first count, even if it required drafting someone who did not run in the primaries — Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio was mentioned — and even if it led to Sanders’ supporters abandoning the party in disgust. If Sanders fails to obtain 1,991 delegates before the convention, which appears likely, it seems nearly certain he will be blocked by the party from becoming the Democratic candidate. The damage done to the Democratic Party, if this happens, will be catastrophic. It will also all but ensure that Trump wins a second term.

As I wrote in my Feb. 17 column, “The New Rules of the Games,” “Sanders’ democratic socialism is essentially that of a New Deal Democrat. His political views would be part of the mainstream in France or Germany, where democratic socialism is an accepted part of the political landscape and is routinely challenged as too accommodationist by communists and radical socialists. Sanders calls for an end to our foreign wars, a reduction of the military budget, for ‘Medicare for All,’ abolishing the death penalty, eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and private prisons, a return of Glass-Steagall, raising taxes on the wealthy, increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, canceling student debt, eliminating the Electoral College, banning fracking and breaking up agribusinesses. This does not qualify as a revolutionary agenda.”

 

 

“Sanders, unlike many more radical socialists, does not propose nationalizing the banks and the fossil fuel and arms industries,” I continued. “He does not call for the criminal prosecution of the financial elites who trashed the global economy or the politicians and generals who lied to launch preemptive wars, defined under international law as criminal wars of aggression, which have devastated much of the Middle East, resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead and millions of refugees and displaced people, and cost the nation between $5 trillion and $7 trillion. He does not call for worker ownership of factories and businesses. He does not promise to halt the government’s wholesale surveillance of the public. He does not intend to punish corporations that have moved manufacturing overseas. Most importantly, he believes, as I do not, that the political system, including the Democratic Party, can be reformed from within. He does not support sustained mass civil disobedience to bring the system down, the only hope we have of halting the climate emergency that threatens to doom the human race. On the political spectrum, he is, at best, an enlightened moderate.”

The Democratic Party leaders are acutely aware that in a functioning democracy, one where the rich do not buy elections and send lobbyists to Washington and state capitals to write laws and legislation, one where the danger of oligarchic rule is understood and part of the national debate, they would be out of a job.

The Democrats, like the Republicans, serve the interests of the pharmaceutical and insurance industries. The Democrats, like the Republicans, serve the interests of the defense contractors. The Democrats, like the Republicans, serve the interests of the fossil fuel industry. The Democrats, along with the Republicans, authorized $738 billion for our bloated military in fiscal 2020. The Democrats, like the Republicans, do not oppose the endless wars in the Middle East. The Democrats, like the Republicans, took from us our civil liberties, including the right to privacy, freedom from wholesale government surveillance, and due process. The Democrats, like the Republicans, legalized unlimited funding from the rich and corporations to transform our electoral process into a system of legalized bribery. The Democrats, like the Republicans, militarized our police and built a system of mass incarceration that has 25% of the world’s prisoners, although the United States has only 5% of the world’s population. The Democrats, like the Republicans, are the political face of the oligarchy.

The leaders of the Democratic Party—the Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Tom Perez—would rather implode the party and the democratic state than surrender their positions of privilege. The Democratic Party is not a bulwark against despotism. It is the guarantor of despotism. It is a full partner in the class project. Its lies, deceit, betrayal of working men and women and empowering of corporate pillage made a demagogue like Trump possible. Any threat to the class project, even the tepid one that would be offered by Sanders as the party’s nominee, will see the Democratic elites unite with the Republicans to keep Trump in power.

What will we do if the oligarchs in the Democratic Party once again steal the nomination from Sanders? Will we finally abandon a system that has always been gamed against us? Will we turn on the oligarchic state to build parallel, popular institutions to protect ourselves and to pit power against power? Will we organize unions, third parties and militant movements that speak in the language of class warfare? Will we form community development organizations that provide local currencies, public banks and food cooperatives? Will we carry out strikes and sustained civil disobedience to wrest power back from the oligarchs to save ourselves and our planet?

In 2016 I did not believe that the Democratic elites would permit Sanders to be the nominee and feared, correctly, they would use him after the convention to herd his followers into the voting booths for Hillary Clinton. I do not believe this animus against Sanders has changed in 2020. The theft this time may be more naked, and for this reason more revealing of the forces involved. If all this plays out as I expect and if those on the left continue to put their faith and energy into the Democratic Party, they are not simply willfully naive but complicit in their own enslavement. No successful political movement will be built within the embrace of the Democratic Party, nor will such a movement be built in one election cycle. The struggle to end oligarchic rule will be hard and bitter. It will take time. It will require self-sacrifice, including sustained protest and going to jail. It will be rooted in class warfare. The oligarchs will stop at nothing to crush it. Open, nonviolent revolt against the oligarchic state is our only hope. Oligarchic rule must be destroyed. If we fail, our democracy, and finally our species, will become extinct.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Zeffolia

[Brisbot]

12 hours ago, goDel said:

Prolly fake news ;D

 

The Bernie Bros thing insinuates that that is basically ALL who is voting for him. It's like saying just KKK members vote for Trump. It's derogatory in itself and pretends all the voters who aren't in whatever category is being framed as the candidate only appealing to, barely exist to the point of irrelevancy.

"Bernie just appeals to angry young liberal white men, when they grow up and get married to a sensible moderate liberal women, they'll choose a more proper candidate like Biden or Pete. hurumph" -- Is the long form version of what the media means with the "Bernie Bros" thing.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Brisbot

[goDel]

It's just a stereotype. Don't read too much in it. The fact people make a big deal about it says more about them, imo. And those same people would use similar generalisations about people who support Biden, I'm sure.

[chenGOD]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:14 AM, Zeffolia said:

older reactionary generations

This is fucking hilarious to read - the young generation that makes up the bulk of social media overreacts wildly from day to day on whatever the hot issue is.

 

On 3/10/2020 at 9:24 PM, Zeffolia said:

he has no plans for improved healthcare or education

Look at his education policy platform: https://joebiden.com/education/

Key takeaways for the lazy:

Quote

• Support our educators by giving them the pay and dignity they deserve.
• Invest in resources for our schools so students grow into physically and emotionally healthy adults, and educators can focus on teaching.
• Ensure that no child’s future is determined by their zip code, parents’ income, race, or disability.
• Provide every middle and high school student a path to a successful career.
• Start investing in our children at birth.

Education beyond high school: https://joebiden.com/beyondhs/

More key takeaways:

Quote

• Invest in community colleges and training to improve student success and grow a stronger, more prosperous, and more inclusive middle class.
• Strengthen college as the reliable pathway to the middle class, not an investment that provides limited returns and leaves graduates with mountains of debt they can’t afford.
• Support colleges and universities that play unique and vital roles in their communities, including Historically Black Colleges and Universities and Minority-Serving Institutions.

 

Health: https://joebiden.com/healthcare/

There's so much information on there about healthcare that it's not easy to provide key takeaways, but given his work with Obama on the ACA, you can surmise that Biden is a whole lot better than Trump or any Republican. Could he be better? Yes, but as the Chomsky video linked above indicates - you have to work the process. Get more progressive minded centrists in place first. Then push further. Kicking and screaming because "tHE DnC is cORRupt" and then refusing to vote is idiotic and counter productive.

[Nebraska]

Quote

It’s finally official: Sen. Bernie Sanders has won the California primary, guaranteeing him an influx of delegates and momentum as he tries to stave off gains by former Vice President Joe Biden.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/21156258/california-primary-winner-bernie-sanders

if that sunday debate happens, it should be fun 

[zlemflolia]

25 minutes ago, chenGOD said:

This is fucking hilarious to read - the young generation that makes up the bulk of social media overreacts wildly from day to day on whatever the hot issue is.

 

Look at his education policy platform: https://joebiden.com/education/

Key takeaways for the lazy:

Education beyond high school: https://joebiden.com/beyondhs/

More key takeaways:

 

Health: https://joebiden.com/healthcare/

There's so much information on there about healthcare that it's not easy to provide key takeaways, but given his work with Obama on the ACA, you can surmise that Biden is a whole lot better than Trump or any Republican. Could he be better? Yes, but as the Chomsky video linked above indicates - you have to work the process. Get more progressive minded centrists in place first. Then push further. Kicking and screaming because "tHE DnC is cORRupt" and then refusing to vote is idiotic and counter productive.

it's hilarious because those "key takeaways" are just non-statements.  They're filler entries you'd write in a fifth grade essay.  It doesn't name numbers, it doesn't take hard stances, it doesn't do shit.

I don't see "free healthcare at the point of service", I don't see "free college at the point of service", he's a republican, evidently you are too saying we need "progressive minded centrists" whatever that oxymoronic statement even means

[zlemflolia]

also this attempt to blame non-biden-voting bernie supporters for biden's inevitable loss to Trump is a joke.  if biden is so unelectable among young people, why are boomers being stupid enough to vote for him rather than voting for someone who is more likely to get supposedly stupid young people (who suffer massive voter suppression) out to the polls?

Edited March 12, 2020 by Zeffolia

[chenGOD]

7 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

it's hilarious because those "key takeaways" are just non-statements.  They're filler entries you'd write in a fifth grade essay.  It doesn't name numbers, it doesn't take hard stances, it doesn't do shit.

I don't see "free healthcare at the point of service", I don't see "free college at the point of service", he's a republican, evidently you are too saying we need "progressive minded centrists" whatever that oxymoronic statement even means

Time to put on your reading glasses and click through to the links. Enjoy.

[Brisbot]

7 hours ago, goDel said:

It's just a stereotype. Don't read too much in it. The fact people make a big deal about it says more about them, imo. And those same people would use similar generalisations about people who support Biden, I'm sure.

Stereotypes play a big role in many things, like it or not. Yeah it's ridiculous and in itself it's dumb but obviously it sways many people. 2020 I really haven't heard Bernie Bros much IRL, but in 2016 I heard it a ton IRL by people who didn't support him of course.

 And the media isn't pushing "Biden Boomers" I don't think, lol.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Brisbot

[caze]

2 hours ago, Zeffolia said:

young people (who suffer massive voter suppression)

lol, this is complete bullshit. young people are lazy and self absorbed, this is why they don't go to the polls. working adults with families have more obstacles in their way which makes it difficult for them to vote, and they seem to do a far better job at it than younger people with far less responsibilities and greater free time. I'm all for improving access to voting for everyone, but we don't have to lie to ourselves to advocate for that.

[zlemflolia]

52 minutes ago, caze said:

lol, this is complete bullshit. young people are lazy and self absorbed, this is why they don't go to the polls. [young people are not] working adults with families [who] have more obstacles in their way which makes it difficult for them to vote, and they seem to do a far better job at it than younger people with far less responsibilities and greater free time. I'm all for improving access to voting for everyone, but we don't have to lie to ourselves to advocate for that.

holy shit lmao

ok boomer

are you just unaware of the changes in the economy recently that make things hard for young people? this is why young people disproportionately hate status quo centrists

[ignatius]

4 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

holy shit lmao

ok boomer

are you just unaware of the changes in the economy recently that make things hard for young people? this is why young people disproportionately hate status quo centrists

they don't appear to hate them enough to like go vote and stuff.  there's more millennials than there are boomers so if they all really were on teh same page (like boomers seem to be) then they'd go out and vote and the election results would be a lot different. 

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, ignatius said:

they don't appear to hate them enough to like go vote and stuff.  there's more millennials than there are boomers so if they all really were on teh same page (like boomers seem to be) then they'd go out and vote and the election results would be a lot different. 

"go vote" is easy to say when you live in an area that isn't suffering voting discrimination.  go to a majority black neighborhood in a rural ex-confederate area and see how easy it is to vote

[caze]

they haven't made it so hard they can't vote, especially in the many states where early voting is available. I'm not sure how being unemployed and living in your parent's basement makes it harder to vote, lots of free time on your hands, students have far more free time than people with jobs too, but lots of students prefer getting wasted  or playing video games than doing anything productive. the young people who hate centrists do so due to a combination of ignorance and naivety, you're the poster child for this zeff.

1 minute ago, Zeffolia said:

go to a majority black neighborhood in a rural ex-confederate area and see how easy it is to vote

you're shifting the goalposts now, we were talking about the youth vote a minute ago, and in relation to the democratic primary, where Joe Biden is absolutely dominating the black vote.

[zlemflolia]

7 minutes ago, caze said:

they haven't made it so hard they can't vote, especially in the many states where early voting is available. I'm not sure how being unemployed and living in your parent's basement makes it harder to vote, lots of free time on your hands, students have far more free time than people with jobs too, but lots of students prefer getting wasted  or playing video games than doing anything productive. the young people who hate centrists do so due to a combination of ignorance and naivety, you're the poster child for this zeff.

you're shifting the goalposts now, we were talking about the youth vote a minute ago, and in relation to the democratic primary, where Joe Biden is absolutely dominating the black vote.

yes, ignorance causes them to not be okay with corporate totalitarianism rather than taking an enlightened centrist position. lmao

and i didn't shift the goalposts, there are youth in these areas too, I never said anything about the typical voting patterns of black people in general

[caze]

4 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

and i didn't shift the goalposts, there are youth in these areas too, I never said anything about the typical voting patterns of black people in general

yes, you did. discriminatory voter suppression affects all black people, it will affect old people as well as young people (more so old people in fact), and the young people still vote less. also voter suppression due to racial discrimination is a different thing in the primaries than a proper election, so it's got nothing to do with why people haven't been voting for Bernie.

 

[ignatius]

25 minutes ago, Zeffolia said:

"go vote" is easy to say when you live in an area that isn't suffering voting discrimination.  go to a majority black neighborhood in a rural ex-confederate area and see how easy it is to vote

i understand this but those same african americans were able to vote for joe biden and many of them are younger voters. 

[zlemflolia]

Just now, caze said:

yes, you did. discriminatory voter suppression affects all black people, it will affect old people as well as young people (more so old people in fact), and the young people still vote less. also voter suppression due to racial discrimination is a different thing in the primaries than a proper election, so it's got nothing to do with why people haven't been voting for Bernie.

 

quote it then? lmao

"the voter suppression is okay because it affects old and young people equivalently"

you centrists are insufferable and always end up on the wrong side of history.  "the monarchy has worked for centuries, you think we're just going to turn our back on these institutions all of a sudden because young people are sick of it? if they weren't so naive and ignorant they'd realize that a centrist position is better, we have to bargain with the aristocracy"

so boring and dusty

[caze]

ah yes, liberals, those famous fans of the monarchy.

Just now, Zeffolia said:

"the voter suppression is okay because it affects old and young people equivalently"

I never said it was ok, I said it has nothing to do with the argument we're having, this is why it's shifting the goal posts. you're not very bright, are you?

[brian trageskin]