2015 European Migrant Crisis

[brian trageskin]

this is only non violent way I see of getting rid of religion.

 

wtf lol. yeah right, we have to get rid of religion, religion is evil.

 

 

People like delete are afraid of the Muslim invation

 

where did you read that? unless i missed something, i don't think he ever said he was afraid of muslims or had any problem with them.

[cwmbrancity]

nice av mate

 

is that what passes for sarcasm/humour round your manor these days?

[Tricone RC]

Most of the arguments about keeping refugees/migrants out revolve around either culture/religion/ethnicity/whatever, or are based on the idea that they'd overburden the welfare state. The former should have fuck all to do with politics.

 

The latter is reasonable-ish IMO, but if the welfare burden genuinely is overwhelming, why not just let refugees in but don't let them take benefits etc? It would shut up a lot of the domestic moaners, and for the refugees it would still be a vast improvement on living in a war-torn shit hole or a semi-fascist razorfenced camp in some backwards Central European fiefdom (Hungary I'm looking at you)

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

The latter is reasonable-ish IMO, but if the welfare burden genuinely is overwhelming, why not just let refugees in but don't let them take benefits etc?

 

You don't see a problem with having thousands or tens of thousands of extra people in a country with no housing/food (etc... other benefits typically provided by the welfare state)??

 

Isn't the lack of these basics precursory to crime/rioting/etc?

[chenGOD]

Luckily, we as a nation have the ability to create basic housing and provide food assistance to these people, unlike the places that have taken in the most Syrian refugees. I believe the benefits Tricone is talking about (although I don't want to put words in his mouth) are more along the monetary line of benefits. Give them a place to stay and feed them while they get their lives sorted out - welfare abuse cases are rare, and migrants tend to be entrepreneurial hard working people.

 

If we took in 100,000 refugees, what percentage of our population would that be Stephen?

[cwmbrancity]

the planning is shocking and parts of eastern Europe are not known for racial tolerance

 

add and overstretched Greece and the corruption of certain Italian institutions = mayhem

 

people overspill, every1 passing the buck

 

omnishambles

[Hugh Mughnus]

Luckily, we as a nation have the ability to create basic housing and provide food assistance to these people, unlike the places that have taken in the most Syrian refugees. I believe the benefits Tricone is talking about (although I don't want to put words in his mouth) are more along the monetary line of benefits. Give them a place to stay and feed them while they get their lives sorted out - welfare abuse cases are rare, and migrants tend to be entrepreneurial hard working people.

 

If we took in 100,000 refugees, what percentage of our population would that be Stephen?

I don't disagree with what I've bolded here.

 

I'm addressing specifically what I quoted of Tric.

[chenGOD]

Right so if we're denying them the monetary aspects of the welfare state but providing the others then there's not much of an issue right?

[Hugh Mughnus]

Right so if we're denying them the monetary aspects of the welfare state but providing the others then there's not much of an issue right?

Yes we will just send them all down to the Canadian free house and food store. (aka everything has a monetary aspect).

 

 

 

I'll provide the generic response you expect even though I don't necessarily believe in it. What exactly are we doing about Canada's thousands of existing homeless?

[Nebraska]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivk8pYkq05Q

[KovalainenFanBoy]

You know on one hand I think there's reasons not to let everyone in but at the same time I think why wouldn't you let everyone in?

 

The immigration issue is ultimately linked to the, well, everything-else issue. Just the way the world's structured, it's wrong. Shit's fucked up, and way too complex for anyone in here

 

...and that's why I stay away from politics threads

[Hugh Mughnus]

Shit's fucked up, and way too complex for anyone in here

 

 

That's it in a nutshell. There really is no simple answer.

[hma]

 

 

So the food aid wasn't refused because of the red cross:

http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/

 

 

lol that version of the story isn't any better, tbh.

 

 

It absolutely is. The previous way of reporting made it seem like they were trying to impose their religious views on the aid workers.

The way it actually played out was - migrants were promised something, hadn't received it yet, and so wanted to receive what they were promised. Understand, they've been in those holding tents on the border for 4 days now, with nothing except the clothes on their back and the little they were able to stuff into a backpack when they were fleeing bombs dropping on their houses.

 

For the EU nations to refuse to resettle 120,000 (which is a drop on the bucket of the EUs population) is utterly farcical. The biggest bunch of hypocrites are the eastern europeans whose people fled persecution and war and are now refusing the same treatment to these refugees. Well done, really showing the christian compassion.

America and Canada have done very well in the past with their reception of refugees, it's time for us to step up again.

I`m pretty sure you have no idea what you`re talking about. (that bold) You`re american or smth right? I`ve been a eastern europian all my life, I started that living throught that shit back in ussr times and that was a bummer even back then and it still is, even though we`re democratic or whatever. Just because you`ve been living in fucking china or some other miserable asian misgoverned country doesn`t give you a license to judge a nations that have been throught genocide, russification, multiple occupations by other nations, and realities of current day- when knowing language of past occupants is a better bet on getting job than knowing fucking english. You just have no idea, what kind of fears it breads into a nation. Call them cowards, non christian, whatever, but the shit is real in where I live. Do you know how it`s live in the country that has two cultures, that already doesn`t speak to each other and just exist in seperate spaces and maybe you`ll see that none of them are excited to have another one community that is even even more alien because of religion and skin of your colour ( I saw a first black person on the street when I was 18 (in a capital of the country) and still it`s rare to see anyone of a different skin color on the street, I haven`t seen any in mine city for many years) . And all this being against immigration is not about understanding the hardships of other people, it`s just fucking pure fear. People are wondering is EU just another power that takes away what you feel is yours, like USSR did. Democracy is just a theory `sthere, I`ve lived in Iceland and I know how that actually works, when people believe in it, it`s not AT ALL like that in post soviet country. Yeah, I don`t agree with a much of this shit about all of the imigriants just wanting to have your tax money or whatever,it`s just another side of propoganda, people are in need of help and shit, but the system of integrating them into society is useless, look at sweden, look at france, it`s not working and that says a lot about the laws and practice , you cannot just PUT people into different society, fucking better have some idea how to do it first... anyway, fuck you dude, you have no idea, eastern europian is not europe AT ALL, just check the money that a immigrant family gets for a having a child and then compare how much a local family gets for that. And yes, it`s much less. But whatever, kind of nothing personal (fuck, I`m still getting worked up), but still, fuck your judgmental knowledge of politics on this god forsaken message board, it`s just a different story, you cannot compare people who fled a country from a russian occupation( and it was a place back then that was actually ahead economically than countries they fled to, the economical reasons are just so much more powerful now). Shit`s different now, world is different. It already sucks to be an eastern europian, don`t compare it to be born in the country that actually has had democracy while growing up and can emphasize with having less.

edit: messed up some of the quoting, god knows how

[hma]

Hmm, it kind of gets incomprehensible towards the end, sorry

[chenGOD]

I was actually talking about the people who fled in the immediate aftermath of WW2. More specifically the countries like Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia. I suppose more Central Europe than Eastern Europe. All those nations relied on the kindness of others, but now it's like "fuck you jack, I got mine."

 

Here's the key part:

 

 

 

Do you know how it`s live in the country that has two cultures, that already doesn`t speak to each other and just exist in seperate spaces and maybe you`ll see that none of them are excited to have another one community that is even even more alien because of religion and skin of your colour ( I saw a first black person on the street when I was 18 (in a capital of the country) and still it`s rare to see anyone of a different skin color on the street, I haven`t seen any in mine city for many years) . And all this being against immigration is not about understanding the hardships of other people, it`s just fucking pure fear.

 

Why are you afraid of them? They are people, like you and like me. Do you not think it is ridiculous to be afraid of someone because of the color of their skin?

 

I'm not from America, I'm from Canada, where multiculturalism pretty much works (barring the occasional bigot). Yeah sure it's not a process than can be done overnight, and you'll have some growing pains - but there's a reason people want to come to Canada and it sure as fuck ain't the weather.

 

 

Also I like the "nothing personal, but fuck you dude". Lol. It's all good.

 

StephenG that's a nice little game of semantics with the "everything has a monetary aspect" when you know precisely what I'm talking about.

As to what we are doing with the existing homeless in Canada, here's a good start:

 

 

[Hugh Mughnus]

That's not a game of semantics at all.

 

You said non-monetary aspects and there's no such thing. Everything has a dollar value.

[Hugh Mughnus]

Also at this point I agree we need to be doing SOMETHING about it, so you can stop pretending like I'm against helping these people.

[cwmbrancity]

no, not everything has a dollar value

 

human dignity being the main one in mind re-this thread subject

 

there is a real & growing crisis & economic semantics doesnt even solve itself, nevermind the increasing flood of human cargo

 

its the denial of responsibility at an institutional level i find most sickening & unsurprising

[Hugh Mughnus]

no, not everything has a dollar value

 

 

Don't take what I said out of context.

 

I am referring to the aid that needs to be provided to these people. It all has a dollar value. Houses, food, transportation, continuing support. It all has a dollar value.

[cwmbrancity]

even with austerity policies in place across southern Europe, every cunt passing the buck is just making things worse.

 

its the volume of kids thats most appalling, many of whom are already traumatized, then they end up in some godforsaken corruptionn rampant camp

 

Europe can & must do more

 

i'm a gnat's cock's width away from trying to get to Greece to actually contribute something

[Hugh Mughnus]

I hear ya. Good job Merkel for what she's done so far I guess.

 

Do we have statistics on how many kids are coming over yet? I only ask because the media has a tendency to focus on things like that to tug on the ol'heartstrings, sensationalism etc. I'm not saying it's not reality but.. you know how shit like this gets portrayed sometimes.

 

Long term I wonder what the world is to do about syria now? Is it the next Iraq or Afghanistan or what? =/

[cwmbrancity]

 

no, not everything has a dollar value

 

 

Don't take what I said out of context.

 

I am referring to the aid that needs to be provided to these people. It all has a dollar value. Houses, food, transportation, continuing support. It all has a dollar value.

 

 

 

It has a cost, but dignity of spirit should supersede the disposable incomes of wealthy western nations when such a massive crisis is at hand

 

we didnt look at the Poles b4 WWII and think "hmmmmmm, their dollar value isnt all that, let em deal with fascism themselves"

 

have you seen how things are going down at certain "camps & detention" centers across Europe? Its like some Lord of the Flies experiment but with 1000's of people instead of half a dozen public school cunts

 

its fuck all personal, but things are escalating quickly & that isnt some media lie

 

edit: vape time, Dr's orders

[Hugh Mughnus]

 

 

no, not everything has a dollar value

 

 

Don't take what I said out of context.

 

I am referring to the aid that needs to be provided to these people. It all has a dollar value. Houses, food, transportation, continuing support. It all has a dollar value.

 

 

 

It has a cost, but dignity of spirit should supersede the disposable incomes of wealthy western nations when such a massive crisis is at hand

 

 

Sadly that's just not how capitalism works though is it?

Where's the US in all of this?

[cwmbrancity]

exactly

 

weighing up further military intervention probably, the new Rome after all

 

that nation needs a long hard look at itself

[hma]

edit: wrote it to chen:

So you still think, that you have an idea what you`re talking about, when talking about "eastern europe"? And it actually wasn`t personal what I said. I just had enough (tonight) of people on internet (hah) who think, that they know, how it is to live in a divided country like we have in eastern europe (I`m speaking of baltic countries, but that post-soviet mentality is alien to you anyway, it would do good for you to learn some history and see how chech had it really bad, hungarians still have it even worse because of the soviet mentality and bribery still very much happening on the highest levels of the government. Fuck, people over there are not talking about what regular people think and want, need, it`s a business on a small scale, people who rule eastern europe are the post-soviet mentality their own benefit seekers. Yes, they actually receive a money from a kremlin. Little putins. Maybe not everywhere, but in a lot of new EU countries. And my post wasn`t about me personally being afraid (although I`ll not separate myself from the people I live together with, even if I don`t agree with their thoughts- shit ain`t that simple) I wrote that because lifes are a lot different in this side of the world, we are not that rich/democratic europe like you imagine when you hear that word "europe", people there are still in the stone age there when talking about muslims, blacks, immigrants, whatever and you cannot blame them, it`s been a fucking a survival for years. So sorry again, but when you`re on that fucking high horse condemning people you don`t know what`s going really on in their lifes and a history of them- it`s not about hating people that are different, it`s about being fucked over and over again without being part of the fuckers. Just human shit. And being part of that lucky side of humanity doesn`t make you an expert on how it actually works. Different fear. Maybe even fear you have no idea exists.