EU

[goDel]

This german attack seems to be more Columbine than ISIS. ISIS have just killed over 60 people in Afghanistan though, these guys continue to be far more a problem for other Muslims than they do to Europe, for the time being. Immigration isn't the problem here, once ISIS are defeated in Iraq and Syria in the coming year or so I think we'll start to see them make more serious efforts to attack Europe, and shutting down immigration isn't going to make any difference to that.

 

Not sure why you'd think that. Those terrorist attacks are more like recruitment-tools than active efforts be at war with Europe, imo. The greater the division between muslims and other europeans, the bigger the chance some idiot with an identity crisis runs off to fight in Syria or lets his anger loose in his direct environment.

 

If there's no ISIS in Iraq/Syria the war's wrt ISIS having their caliphate would be over. (Although the region would stil be highly unstable) With no caliphate efforts in Syria/Iraq the recruitment-tool has become useless. So instead of more, I'd expect less ISIS-related attacks.

 

Apart from some idiots being in a rough spot emotionally and inspired to resolve their anger through violence ISIS-style. But that would be more like lone wolves doing stupid shit under the guise of ISIS, or whatever the hell their brain comes up with (Nazi/national socialism? or crusaders like Breivik?).

 

As long as populism will run its rampage in national politics, the environment remains a hotbed for lone wolves doing stupid stuff (does the killed politician during the brexit thing ring a bell?). And immigration and populism are closely tied. (not to say either populism or immigration is the problem btw. there is no 'the' problem)

[caze]

 

This german attack seems to be more Columbine than ISIS. ISIS have just killed over 60 people in Afghanistan though, these guys continue to be far more a problem for other Muslims than they do to Europe, for the time being. Immigration isn't the problem here, once ISIS are defeated in Iraq and Syria in the coming year or so I think we'll start to see them make more serious efforts to attack Europe, and shutting down immigration isn't going to make any difference to that.

 

Not sure why you'd think that. Those terrorist attacks are more like recruitment-tools than active efforts be at war with Europe, imo. The greater the division between muslims and other europeans, the bigger the chance some idiot with an identity crisis runs off to fight in Syria or lets his anger loose in his direct environment.

 

If there's no ISIS in Iraq/Syria the war's wrt ISIS having their caliphate would be over. (Although the region would stil be highly unstable) With no caliphate efforts in Syria/Iraq the recruitment-tool has become useless. So instead of more, I'd expect less ISIS-related attacks.

 

Apart from some idiots being in a rough spot emotionally and inspired to resolve their anger through violence ISIS-style. But that would be more like lone wolves doing stupid shit under the guise of ISIS, or whatever the hell their brain comes up with (Nazi/national socialism? or crusaders like Breivik?).

 

As long as populism will run its rampage in national politics, the environment remains a hotbed for lone wolves doing stupid stuff (does the killed politician during the brexit thing ring a bell?). And immigration and populism are closely tied. (not to say either populism or immigration is the problem btw. there is no 'the' problem)

 

 

I'm not only talking about ISIS, it's pretty obvious that al-Qaeda will become resurgent after the fall of ISIS, other groups too. And even then, you're not going to wipe out every ISIS cell, even if they don't control territory they could still have a steady stream of recruits coming from all over the muslim world, they're churning them out from fundamentalist mosques and madrasas all over the place, whether to ISIS or some other network doesn't make much difference at the end of the day.

[goDel]

I think ISIS is pretty unique in that it actively tries to build their caliphate. If that ambition has ended (through defeat in a war), the isis-related recruitment will end with it, imo. Al-quada and others will keep on doing what they were doing before ISIS. Not sure why they would copy the ISIS thing, as they were never in the business of running their own state. So, imo, things will be more like before isis had their caliphate when it has fallen. Wrt to the eu, btw. Wrt to russia this might be a different story, as they basically exported their terroristic threat to the middle east. So after isis falls, the terroristic threat will return to russia.

[Guest WNS000]

 

Shutting down immigration will not prevent already present terrorists from attacking but it will prevent new terrorists from coming. Also, the less Muslims in Europe, the easier identification of suspects.

 

No it won't, if a committed jihadist wants to get into Europe they will find a way, the tougher the immigration policies the more effort it might take, they'll still find a way though (and most likely they'll find it pretty easy to use various existing criminal people smuggling routes in).

 

During a communist regime in the middle and eastern Europe it was pretty fucking difficult to get in and out of the area. If EU, in case of crisis (because it would be very expensive), created a similar border system ("fortress Europe" as some people say) it would most certainly prevented most terrorists from coming in. I mean even Israel is building walls so they probably have good reasons for that.

 

 

And to say it would make it easier to identify them is ridiculous. You cannot effectively racially profile terrorists (never mind the moral arguments about whether such a thing would be acceptable - it wouldn't) because they can easily change their appearance to blend in if there were such policies in place (many north-africans/middle eastern people could easily pass as southern europeans, and there are also plenty of northern european jihadists if they needed them as well).

 

At this moment you still most definitely can racially profile Muslim terrorists hiding in a majority-white areas (Poland, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Ukraine etc.) unless they are Chechen or from Dagestan. The less middle-east/african/asian areas in Europe, the less hiding spots (such as Molenbeek) for Muslim terrorists, the easier (not saying how much exactly, just easier) identification. It is a common sense. It would also be perfectly acceptable because when police issues a wanted posters they usually describes colour of skin and other descriptive visual/physical properties of a suspect anyway and nobody seem to give a damn. Also, maybe to you Southern Europeans look like north-africans or middle eastern but a trained eye can definitely identify differences in many situations.

 

Please note, that I am not advocating for stopping immigration based on race. I have no problems with educated liberals from all over the world migrating to Europe, I don't care about colour of skin. I just claim that less clutter (waiting for somebody to become triggered by this and accusing me of calling immigrants "clutter") makes situation more clear which is absolutely obvious.

[Guest WNS000]

Btw this is an interesting youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/coreygilshuster/videos

 

Basically a guy in Palestine and Israel asks regular people on streets about religious and other questions. I am aware it is in a certain context of Palestine and the region but still very interesting nevertheless.

[Alcofribas]

fyi the wall Israel has built is illegal under international law and clearly serves the purpose of annexing land and establishing territorial borders in occupied territory in order to further erode the possibility of a return to pre-67 borders.

[Guest WNS000]

fyi the wall Israel has built is illegal under international law and clearly serves the purpose of annexing land and establishing territorial borders in occupied territory in order to further erode the possibility of a return to pre-67 borders.

 

I am not disputing that. I have big issues with Israel myself. I just tried to give an example of how a strict border defense/control can actually prevent most of the attempts of crossing the borders.

[Alcofribas]

 

fyi the wall Israel has built is illegal under international law and clearly serves the purpose of annexing land and establishing territorial borders in occupied territory in order to further erode the possibility of a return to pre-67 borders.

I am not disputing that. I have big issues with Israel myself. I just tried to give an example of how a strict border defense/control can actually prevent most of the attempts of crossing the borders.

seems like kinda a weird example but ok.

 

in any case perhaps all our points are made for now and we should all bathe in the dank memes thread until the next boc album.

[Guest WNS000]

 

in any case perhaps all our points are made for now and we should all bathe in the dank memes thread until the next boc album.

 

 

I mean, I am not really against such offer. It is just that I don't know when somebody is going to write something stupid in this thread and trigger me again.

[Guest WNS000]

well... seems to be not that hard to find examples like these when you combine stupidity with Islam.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDy-8jW_9Q

[Audioblysk]

It must feel good to be so woke.

[Silent Member]

[Ivan Ooze]

they should gas everyone who doesn't respect womeng or hate homosexuals

 

vote ooze, make planet earth great again

[Guest WNS000]

they should gas everyone who doesn't respect womeng or hate homosexuals

 

vote ooze, make planet earth great again

 

What was your opinion on rights of women and homosexuals again?

[Ivan Ooze]

 

they should gas everyone who doesn't respect womeng or hate homosexuals

 

vote ooze, make planet earth great again

 

What was your opinion on rights of women and homosexuals again?

 

 

 

 

(just kidding xp )

[caze]

I think ISIS is pretty unique in that it actively tries to build their caliphate. If that ambition has ended (through defeat in a war), the isis-related recruitment will end with it, imo. Al-quada and others will keep on doing what they were doing before ISIS. Not sure why they would copy the ISIS thing, as they were never in the business of running their own state. So, imo, things will be more like before isis had their caliphate when it has fallen. Wrt to the eu, btw. Wrt to russia this might be a different story, as they basically exported their terroristic threat to the middle east. So after isis falls, the terroristic threat will return to russia.

 

I never said anything about al-Qaeda behaving like ISIS. Radical islamists will continue to recruit following the fall of ISIS, it doesn't really matter what organisation they join up with, they're still going to target non-islamist muslims, shia, and infidels all over the world, and without a caliphate to fight for it will be more terrorist attacks again.

[cwmbrancity]

 

 

Shutting down immigration will not prevent already present terrorists from attacking but it will prevent new terrorists from coming. Also, the less Muslims in Europe, the easier identification of suspects.

 

No it won't, if a committed jihadist wants to get into Europe they will find a way, the tougher the immigration policies the more effort it might take, they'll still find a way though (and most likely they'll find it pretty easy to use various existing criminal people smuggling routes in).

 

During a communist regime in the middle and eastern Europe it was pretty fucking difficult to get in and out of the area. If EU, in case of crisis (because it would be very expensive), created a similar border system ("fortress Europe" as some people say) it would most certainly prevented most terrorists from coming in. I mean even Israel is building walls so they probably have good reasons for that.

 

 

And to say it would make it easier to identify them is ridiculous. You cannot effectively racially profile terrorists (never mind the moral arguments about whether such a thing would be acceptable - it wouldn't) because they can easily change their appearance to blend in if there were such policies in place (many north-africans/middle eastern people could easily pass as southern europeans, and there are also plenty of northern european jihadists if they needed them as well).

 

Also, maybe to you Southern Europeans look like north-africans or middle eastern but a trained eye can definitely identify differences in many situations.

 

 

 

 

 

I reckon you'd be just the man for this kind of nuanced profiling

[Alcofribas]

Munich update:

 

"The suspect was an 18-year-old Iranian who lived in Munich, police told a news conference, but his motive is unclear."

 

bbc.com

 

 

"Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae said there was an "obvious" link between the new attack and Friday's fifth anniversary of Breivik's attacks in Norway."

 

"Police have ruled out any connection to the self-styled Islamic State (IS) group."

 

bbc: https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36874497?client=safari#

[keanu reeves]

white guy shoots up public place: where have we gone wrong as a society to allow this to happen??!!

brown guy shoots up public place: isis agent activated

[Guest]

@alco yea this guy was born and raised in Germany. He had dual German/Iranian citizenship because of that - imo it's even a stretch to call him Iranian.

 

Funny how this thing was quickly reported as multiple shooter, multi location, heavily armed terrorist attack right from the beginning. It's like news agencies have become adhd kids spasming out randomly

[hello spiral]

I think it's wishful thinking for a bigger story sometimes.

[goDel]

I think the problem is instant gratification of people consuming the news: people expecting truths at a moment when there's a lot of uncertainty. The 'misinformation' was perfectly explainable with the given knowledge at the moment of release.

[usagi]

they also thought the Dallas shooter was multiple guys.

[Guest WNS000]

 

Munich update:

 

"The suspect was an 18-year-old Iranian who lived in Munich, police told a news conference, but his motive is unclear."

 

bbc.com

 

 

"Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae said there was an "obvious" link between the new attack and Friday's fifth anniversary of Breivik's attacks in Norway."

 

"Police have ruled out any connection to the self-styled Islamic State (IS) group."

 

bbc: https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36874497?client=safari#

 

 

Yes, as I already posted, this does not seem as a ISIL / terrorist attack against western-culture. I have noticed three main theories of what was this guy after:

 

1) Sunni vs Shia problem, he felt bullied by his Sunni peers in school and therefore aimed his killing spree on 3 Turks, 3 Bosnians and one Greek of reportedly Islamic faith who might have been Sunni (he could have invite them through the facebook post he had made before the attack)

 

2) Killing spree Breivik-style against immigrants to Germany (hence his "I am German" shout)

 

3) General psycho killing spree

 

I always thought this attack was different than others because it was surprising to me the attacker was Iranian. I don't remember any Iranian involved in the past terrorist attacks whatsoever.

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

Munich update:

"The suspect was an 18-year-old Iranian who lived in Munich, police told a news conference, but his motive is unclear."

bbc.com

"Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae said there was an "obvious" link between the new attack and Friday's fifth anniversary of Breivik's attacks in Norway."

"Police have ruled out any connection to the self-styled Islamic State (IS) group."

bbc: https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36874497?client=safari#

 

 

Yes, as I already posted, this does not seem as a ISIL / terrorist attack against western-culture. I have noticed three main theories of what was this guy after:

 

1) Sunni vs Shia problem, he felt bullied by his Sunni peers in school and therefore aimed his killing spree on 3 Turks, 3 Bosnians and one Greek of reportedly Islamic faith who might have been Sunni (he could have invite them through the facebook post he had made before the attack)

 

2) Killing spree Breivik-style against immigrants to Germany (hence his "I am German" shout)

 

3) General psycho killing spree

 

I always thought this attack was different than others because it was surprising to me the attacker was Iranian. I don't remember any Iranian involved in the past terrorist attacks whatsoever.

 

 

1) do you have a link for the sunni vs shia angle?

 

2) lol:

 

 

 

the anniversary of the Breivik shooting is chilling to me personally atm as I've been laboriously (bc my Norwegian is succ) trying to read through a Norwegian book in which it plays a significant role.

 

Are Muslim terrorist attacks chilling to you to? Because for me Breivik attack is chilling too. I just absolutely don't understand why you talk about Breivik at this moment. Isn't it "but look, they do it to!" argument you are trying to do right now? If yes, you have reached the new low (which would need another jackpot gif so let me know).

 

 

3) he was born and raised in germany by iranian refugees.