Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[auxien]

 

 

I just don't get the impression that most politicians are overly concerned with their constituents once the votes have been counted and the church visits are over.

Fixt.

 

And yes it is likely more common when taking advantage of minorities, and that is a problem. But I'd say that you (or Malcolm X if he were alive today) were wrong to say the same in reference to all white politicians of a liberal bent. The issue of being concerned with the black communities in America is not solvable by any one politician, any group of politicians, or most likely any group of people that consists of less than nearly all Americans. Racism is so ingrained and wide-reaching and deep and dug in by the nastiest most rusted of gnarled hooks into the very structure of American society at most every level and area that there is no easy fix, if there is a fix. Period. So yes, politicians play on that for votes, like they play on literally every single other thing that they possibly can. There are of course sneaks and liars who aren't actually concerned with helping out minorities or any particular group, but they are rampant in all parties, inside and outside of politics, etc. Anyone who believes that one president or politician can change any vast thing is terribly sadly mistaken. But to incite that distrust was/is necessary in ways...in Malcolm X's time it was a needed reminder to those minority groups that society was still oppressing the minority no matter what speech was given, however honestly a white man might have meant it (though of course they were just as likely to be lying).

 

sent using magic space waves

[caze]

Didn't Malcolm X change his tune on whitey towards the end? I'm pretty sure he became less of a dick about it.

[doublename]

What's dickish about that quotation?

 

edit: he became more... congenial toward whites after leaving the Nation of Islam, but I don't think his opinions on white Americans of the political class ever changed.

Edited February 14, 2016 by doublename

[caze]

the overly negative paranoid ramblings. presumably he thought he was being a dick, because he changed his mind.

[doublename]

There's nothing particularly paranoid about that though. Black voters are taken for granted by liberal politicians and get little to nothing in return for their loyalty to them. It's not like he's spouting off about the Illuminati.

[caze]

There's nothing particularly paranoid about that though. Black voters are taken for granted by liberal politicians and get little to nothing in return for their loyalty to them. It's not like he's spouting off about the Illuminati.

 

There is something paranoid about thinking that all liberal white people in 60s were only pretending to be in favour of civil rights reform. Again, this was something he himself realised. That speech was given when he was still a member of the Nation of Islam.

[LimpyLoo]

There's nothing particularly paranoid about that though. Black voters are taken for granted by liberal politicians and get little to nothing in return for their loyalty to them. It's not like he's spouting off about the Illuminati.

That interpretation is the most cynical possible interpretation of things. It strikes me as a sort of Tumblr Revisionism: That white liberals are simply posturing, and only doing the absolute minimum (civil rights-wise) to secure the black vote.

 

Malcolm X did change his tune. Famously, a white woman once came up to him and said "what can I do to help?" and he said "nothing." (Later he said he regretted this). But I think that moment was the birth of the Tumblrina...a sort of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation whereby you are guilty simply by virtue of being white (or male, or American, or cis, or whatever). Any genuine attempts on your part to help will be construed as hegemony or demagoguery or anything but a sincere desire to improve things.

 

Anyway, I think that is a severely backwards take on things. Certainly it hasn't all been unambiguously positive and sincere, but c'mon now.

Edited February 14, 2016 by LimpyLoo

[doublename]

Yeah, I guess I should walk that back a bit: I do think American politicians are that cynical, but I wouldn't accuse the average left-leaning voter of that. I guess I think of black Democrats as being roughly analogous to the poor whites who ride or die with the other side. They are both groups to be pandered to but, rarely, if ever, to be served.

[LimpyLoo]

That sounds about right, especially the higher up the ladder you go.

 

And as an aside, I think that is an unavoidable problem of this era of image-conscious, PR-minded political campaigns. It is a system that selects for the best rhetorician and campaigner, not the person who was best-suited all along. (This probably sounds insane, but I think political candidates shouldn't be allowed to get feedback on how they're coming off, as it rewards cynical image management and demagoguery)

[Nebraska]

https://youtu.be/89CyIR4Fkdk

Edited February 16, 2016 by Nebraska

[Nebraska]

https://youtu.be/CoUEoPhXdaw

[watmmisdead]

Hilary clinton was on the board of wall mart for 5 years.lol.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

If Bernie gets to be POTUS, I seriously doubt he can affect much change. I think he's far more sincere than Obama was during his campaign. As soon as Obama got into office, he fell in line with the mainstream. The GOP are still in control of the House and Senate and have a majority on the state and municipal levels. The Dems run a good presidential game but are truly bad at the other games. The GOP will continue to be the party of no if the Bern (or Hillary for that matter) get the WH and nothing will get done for the next four or eight years.

 

http://socialistworker.org/2015/06/11/a-vermont-socialists-guide-to-sanders

 

 

I just don’t happen to think that Bernie gets what the country — indeed what all of techno-industrial society — is really up against, namely a long emergency of economic contraction and collapse.

These circumstances require a very different agenda than just an I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill redistributionist scheme. Lively as Bernie is, I don’t think he offers much beyond that, as if cadging a little more tax money out of WalMart, General Mills, and Exxon-Mobil will fix what is ailing this sad-ass polity. The heart of the matter is that our way of life has shot its wad and now we have to live very differently. Almost nobody wants to even try to think about this.

I hugely resent the fact that the Democratic Party puts its time and energy into the stupid sexual politics of the day when it should be working on issues such as re-localizing commercial economies (rebuilding Main Streets), reforming agriculture to avoid the total collapse of corporate-industrial farming, and fixing the passenger rail system so people will have some way to get around the country when happy Motoring dies (along with commercial aviation).

The “to do” list for rearranging the basic systems of daily life in America is long and loaded with opportunity. Every system that is retooled contains jobs and social roles for people who have been shut out of the economy for two generations. If we do everything we can to promote smaller-scaled local farming, there will be plenty of work for lesser-skilled people to do and get paid for. Saying goodbye to the tyranny of Big Box commerce would open up vast vocational opportunities in reconstructed local and regional networks of commerce, especially for young people interested in running their own business. We need to prepare for localized clinic-style medicine (in opposition to the continuing amalgamation and gigantization of hospitals, with its handmaidens of Big Pharma and the insurance rackets). The train system has got to be reborn as a true public utility. Just about every other civilized country is already demonstrating how that is done — it’s not that difficult and it would employ a lot of people at every level. That is what the agenda of a truly progressive political party should be at this moment in history.

http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/potemkin-party

Edited February 16, 2016 by Ayya Khema

[Nebraska]

https://youtu.be/lbD3jVIWoY0

[chenGOD]

 

 

Hilary clinton was on the board of wall mart for 5 years.lol.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

If Bernie gets to be POTUS, I seriously doubt he can affect much change. I think he's far more sincere than Obama was during his campaign. As soon as Obama got into office, he fell in line with the mainstream. The GOP are still in control of the House and Senate and have a majority on the state and municipal levels. The Dems run a good presidential game but are truly bad at the other games. The GOP will continue to be the party of no if the Bern (or Hillary for that matter) get the WH and nothing will get done for the next four or eight years.

http://socialistworker.org/2015/06/11/a-vermont-socialists-guide-to-sanders

 

I just don’t happen to think that Bernie gets what the country — indeed what all of techno-industrial society — is really up against, namely a long emergency of economic contraction and collapse.

These circumstances require a very different agenda than just an I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill redistributionist scheme. Lively as Bernie is, I don’t think he offers much beyond that, as if cadging a little more tax money out of WalMart, General Mills, and Exxon-Mobil will fix what is ailing this sad-ass polity. The heart of the matter is that our way of life has shot its wad and now we have to live very differently. Almost nobody wants to even try to think about this.

I hugely resent the fact that the Democratic Party puts its time and energy into the stupid sexual politics of the day when it should be working on issues such as re-localizing commercial economies (rebuilding Main Streets), reforming agriculture to avoid the total collapse of corporate-industrial farming, and fixing the passenger rail system so people will have some way to get around the country when happy Motoring dies (along with commercial aviation).

The “to do” list for rearranging the basic systems of daily life in America is long and loaded with opportunity. Every system that is retooled contains jobs and social roles for people who have been shut out of the economy for two generations. If we do everything we can to promote smaller-scaled local farming, there will be plenty of work for lesser-skilled people to do and get paid for. Saying goodbye to the tyranny of Big Box commerce would open up vast vocational opportunities in reconstructed local and regional networks of commerce, especially for young people interested in running their own business. We need to prepare for localized clinic-style medicine (in opposition to the continuing amalgamation and gigantization of hospitals, with its handmaidens of Big Pharma and the insurance rackets). The train system has got to be reborn as a true public utility. Just about every other civilized country is already demonstrating how that is done — it’s not that difficult and it would employ a lot of people at every level.

That is what the agenda of a truly progressive political party should be at this moment in history.

http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/potemkin-party

A truly progressive party should be focused on trying to make the country like it was in the 1850s?

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

There's a bit of an irony here. Black & white democrats seem to vote similarly, so the racial component has become irrelevant amongst democrats... One might argue. But we're still talking like it matters. And it does...

Anywayzzzz...i thought it was amusing :S

Sometime that's always irked me, in fact irrationally more than batshit right-wingers, are truly dumb liberals and Democrats. Some are blissfully ignorant, some have no basic concept of conservative or liberal historical theories, some literally have no idea why the vote that way yet are very loudly demeaning and insulting to anyone who votes Republican. I loathe these people.

 

Also, I can attest to this being the case from working 5 years at the TX State capitol, the theres a sad fact that Democratic parties most corrupt and/or inept office holders very often represent minority communities. It's probably the most shameful bad trend of the party. It's also why cities like Chicago, Detroit, and other rust belt metropolitan areas are so corrupt. In Texas it's even more difficult to acknowledge and combat because we need every Dem vote we can get (it's GOP supermajority statewide) and as much as I want to get bad legislators out, there's the even worse possibility of that district being re-drawn and turned into another tea party office.

Fwiw: i was not trying to say dems are better than reps or anything. I was just going from the numbers posted by nebraska, arguing there's a roughly 50/50 division running through the entire party, regardles of ... Ehm can i say race ?. Without triggering the pcs?

What is the deal is with the gop? I really dont have a clue. You tell me.

Its funny that some observation about dem voters can be immediately taken as an attack on reps, though. It's apparently a very sensitive subject. And really amusing from an outsiders pov, i can tell ya. Must be one of the pros of living in a multi party system: the bullshit about having a certain political color is way less pronounced. But seeing the ease with which people tend to get insulted, i'll just stop here. Don't want to go into the "euro insulting us" mode either.

 

 

I agree with you about the multiparty system, only problem with that in the US is we're not parliamentary based, but I dunno, maybe it could work via alliance voting in the US lege (I dunno, really rusty on all of that TBH)

 

Also I have no idea what the deal with the GOP is, especially in 2016 more than ever. It's weird because I know that technically moderate / "establishment" GOP types exist but I have no idea who they are or where they exist. They are out there though...like dark matter basically.

[usagi]

America.

[watmmisdead]

 

 

 

Hilary clinton was on the board of wall mart for 5 years.lol.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

If Bernie gets to be POTUS, I seriously doubt he can affect much change. I think he's far more sincere than Obama was during his campaign. As soon as Obama got into office, he fell in line with the mainstream. The GOP are still in control of the House and Senate and have a majority on the state and municipal levels. The Dems run a good presidential game but are truly bad at the other games. The GOP will continue to be the party of no if the Bern (or Hillary for that matter) get the WH and nothing will get done for the next four or eight years.

http://socialistworker.org/2015/06/11/a-vermont-socialists-guide-to-sanders

 

 

I just don’t happen to think that Bernie gets what the country — indeed what all of techno-industrial society — is really up against, namely a long emergency of economic contraction and collapse.

These circumstances require a very different agenda than just an I Dreamed I Saw Joe Hill redistributionist scheme. Lively as Bernie is, I don’t think he offers much beyond that, as if cadging a little more tax money out of WalMart, General Mills, and Exxon-Mobil will fix what is ailing this sad-ass polity. The heart of the matter is that our way of life has shot its wad and now we have to live very differently. Almost nobody wants to even try to think about this.

I hugely resent the fact that the Democratic Party puts its time and energy into the stupid sexual politics of the day when it should be working on issues such as re-localizing commercial economies (rebuilding Main Streets), reforming agriculture to avoid the total collapse of corporate-industrial farming, and fixing the passenger rail system so people will have some way to get around the country when happy Motoring dies (along with commercial aviation).

The “to do” list for rearranging the basic systems of daily life in America is long and loaded with opportunity. Every system that is retooled contains jobs and social roles for people who have been shut out of the economy for two generations. If we do everything we can to promote smaller-scaled local farming, there will be plenty of work for lesser-skilled people to do and get paid for. Saying goodbye to the tyranny of Big Box commerce would open up vast vocational opportunities in reconstructed local and regional networks of commerce, especially for young people interested in running their own business. We need to prepare for localized clinic-style medicine (in opposition to the continuing amalgamation and gigantization of hospitals, with its handmaidens of Big Pharma and the insurance rackets). The train system has got to be reborn as a true public utility. Just about every other civilized country is already demonstrating how that is done — it’s not that difficult and it would employ a lot of people at every level.

That is what the agenda of a truly progressive political party should be at this moment in history.

http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/potemkin-party

A truly progressive party should be focused on trying to make the country like it was in the 1850s?

 

Peak oil and all its problem will begins unfolding in the near future.

 

The way of the western life is not sustainable. We would need 3-4 earth if everyone lived the american way of life.

 

self sufficiency is our only alternative for the future.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Ayya Khema

[chenGOD]

Is the western way of life the american way of life? I didn't realize that the west equaled america. I'm not sure that's what I said anyways.

 

What do you think are the key points that make a society self-sufficient?

[auxien]

The way of the western life is not sustainable. We would need 3-4 earth if everyone lived the american way of life.

 

self sufficiency is our only alternative for the future.

 

[watmmisdead]

 

What do you think are the key points that make a society self-sufficient?

Sustainable and local agriculture and without chemicals as to protect the planet.

No more livestock as its not sustainable to keep eating meat and its environmental impact are catastrophic.

Clean energy and energy efficient.

 

the pre oil society will need to change drastically to survive the climate crisis, surpopulation, ect.

[goDel]

You mean the post-oil society?

[watmmisdead]

You mean the post-oil society?

oups, yes post-oil society.

[caze]

 

Peak oil and all its problem will begins unfolding in the near future.

 

The way of the western life is not sustainable. We would need 3-4 earth if everyone lived the american way of life.

 

self sufficiency is our only alternative for the future.

 

sadly Peak Oil isn't something we need to worry about for a long while yet, if it was we might actually get off our asses and start building the nuclear power stations we need.

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Peak oil and all its problem will begins unfolding in the near future.

 

The way of the western life is not sustainable. We would need 3-4 earth if everyone lived the american way of life.

 

self sufficiency is our only alternative for the future.

 

sadly Peak Oil isn't something we need to worry about for a long while yet, if it was we might actually get off our asses and start building the nuclear power stations we need.

 

 

yeah actually peak oil waaaay off simply because the US, Canada and basically everyone but the Sauds aren't drilling any more new sites, fracking has slowed down tremendously stateside, and the price of oil dropped way too much, it's a huge deal beyond the lower gas prices (which is all most Americans are noticing) for a lot of reasons. in fact there's now talk that the financial incentive of drilling oil will be so low that many large reserves will never be extracted at all, essentially making peak oil irrelevant. my father-in-law is an oil broker and he's been skeptical of peak oil for years, but now he's actually being confirmed by recent events

 

also it's destroyed the Venezuelan economy, which is heavily oil dependent, and the post-Chavez government is under a lot of pressure as a result. could disrupt a bunch of governments in the long-term. here in Texas it's slowed a lot of the economy, especially out West and South, but that's nothing too new, oil has always been boom and bust. the bigger concern is that the TX state budget is heavily dependent on oil revenues (also property taxes, which are indirectly affected by the oil industry along with the economy in general) our current comptroller has thankfully been pretty conservative in his revenue estimates, unlike most of the short-sided GOP leaders in office here, but it could be a disaster later on.

Edited February 17, 2016 by joshuatx

[chenGOD]

 

 

What do you think are the key points that make a society self-sufficient?

Sustainable and local agriculture and without chemicals as to protect the planet.

No more livestock as its not sustainable to keep eating meat and its environmental impact are catastrophic.

Clean energy and energy efficient.

 

the pre oil society will need to change drastically to survive the climate crisis, surpopulation, ect.

Energy sufficient first and foremost.