LimpyLoo Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Not to mention espousing contradictory beliefs/attitudes, which he did a lot, and which seemed to work to his advantage for (I'd bet) the above reason. Edited November 10, 2016 by LimpyLoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 And Trump gave an absolute fucking masterclass on how to groom the populace for authoritarianism: "Look...Saddam, Putin, Kim-Jong-Un...these are some brutal, nasty guys...we all know that...BUT they were really good at dealing with problems X, Y and Z...and hey, WE have problems X, Y and Z, so maybe we could stand to learn something from them..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 triple post mayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) that adderall Edited November 10, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hello spiral Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimpyLoo Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 This is a good article https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/ Great read. I like the Facebook post linked too, very succinct and something a lot of the West needs to ingest. Good read, but a bit self-serving in points, imo. This piece on 538 makes a nice contrast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/ ): they change 1% of the Trumps votes in Clintons favor and speculate how the media would have explained the alternative outcome. The effect on the outcome is huge. And with that, the likely narrative that would have been told by the (biased) media. A small difference would have invalidated parts of this article, even though the electoral difference can be seen as noise. So even though this piece takes aim at the media (and everything else) as if its somehow above it all, it shows it's basically just like any other media piece: a narrative happily ignorant of the sensitivity of real world noise. It's easy for the media to draw conclusions which often mostly affirm their own predispositions (like the author of the article from the intercept explicitly does here, btw) without taking in regard the likelihood of an opposing outcome. Or rather, an opposing narrative. (try reading any article with the idea that the opposite is actually closer to the truth. similar to listening to trump and thinking he's everything he made out his opponents to be. no stamina. corrupt. and a lousy leader. etc) In a way the author does exactly what he mentions in this quote. The only difference is that he has luck on his side. Because the outcome was in line with his expectations. As if it was something inevitable. Which it just wasn't. Sorry. In each case, journalists who spend all day chatting with one another on Twitter and congregating in exclusive social circles in national capitals — constantly re-affirming their own wisdom in an endless feedback loop — were certain of victory. Afterward, the elites whose entitlement to prevail was crushed devoted their energies to blaming everyone they could find except for themselves, while doubling down on their unbridled contempt for those who defied them, steadfastly refusing to examine what drove their insubordination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 joshuaTX, I liked McCain before he started campaigning. If he'd stuck to his core beliefs I might've voted for him. But getting his knob in the hands of the R elites or whoever turned his message and you could see his change. Lost a lot of respect for him, though he has kept some things true to his beliefs, but he's basically any other Republican at this point. yeah he's definitely not someone to idolize anymore by any means. he knows the ropes though and from what still read about him he's a legislator doing to his job. not long ago i flipped on him speaking at a town hall randomly and it was a refreshingly normal, calm, civil Q&A about policies between him and constituents. he's another republican sure, but he's one who is threatened by the fact that he is an incumbent. tea party / trump supporters are bent on replacing him and others with some mouth breeder newbie simply because he's been in office in a long time. i'm not opposed to term limits but being for them out of convenience and faux principle alone is ridiculous and irresponsible. i still don't mind senators like him in office, even if they are pretty unlikable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumi Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 So.... Watched any good movies lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumi Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Or maybe Obama: "Have you heard the new Machinedrum?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coax Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) goDel, good point. I'm getting a bit disconcerted though with reading internet comments. I've thought for a long time that the notion that reading internet comments is a waste of time / 'cancer' is bullshit, and that there can be a lot of interesting stuff there. but check for example this video: maybe im crazy but i found it as reasonable as could be and not really too one-sided at all, and yet the comments are as if nobody even listened to anything they said. this crap about unification that even trump says, i don't think is on the horizon any time soon, not with this shit Edited November 10, 2016 by coax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goDel Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 goDel, good point. I'm getting a bit disconcerted though with reading internet comments. I've thought for a long time that the notion that reading internet comments is a waste of time / 'cancer' is bullshit, and that there can be a lot of interesting stuff there. but check for example this video: maybe im crazy but i found it as reasonable as could be and not really too one-sided at all, and yet the comments are as if nobody even listened to anything they said. this crap about unification that even trump says, i don't think is on the horizon any time soon, not with this shit Tip: If you want to get desensitised to internet comments you should spend a month at 4chan/b/ . It makes you drown in that cancer in such a way that it becomes invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Ethics aside (lol), I think Trump ran a brilliant campaign. And the thing he did best, I think, was basically saying ambiguous things that can mean whatever the listener wants them to mean. "Take our country back" and "Make America great again" are the two most obvious examples, and they're nothing new in the world of politics, but Trump used such strategic ambiguity pretty much every time he talked. For instance, when he says something "if I lose, I MIGHT concede...we'll see", the ambiguity allows people the opportunity to believe the most comforting interpretation of it. Non-neurotic people tend not to believe the worst when presented with ambiguous information, and whether Trump understands this consciously or not, he capitalized on it. Wow, a limpy post I can get down with. There's a great article in foreign affairs that should still be free today on the history of populism in the US. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/print/1118363 If it's not available, and anyone is interested in reading it, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Or maybe Obama: "Have you heard the new Machinedrum?" flol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Ethics aside (lol), I think Trump ran a brilliant campaign. And the thing he did best, I think, was basically saying ambiguous things that can mean whatever the listener wants them to mean. "Take our country back" and "Make America great again" are the two most obvious examples, and they're nothing new in the world of politics, but Trump used such strategic ambiguity pretty much every time he talked. For instance, when he says something "if I lose, I MIGHT concede...we'll see", the ambiguity allows people the opportunity to believe the most comforting interpretation of it. Non-neurotic people tend not to believe the worst when presented with ambiguous information, and whether Trump understands this consciously or not, he capitalized on it. Wow, a limpy post I can get down with. There's a great article in foreign affairs that should still be free today on the history of populism in the US. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/print/1118363 If it's not available, and anyone is interested in reading it, let me know. Gonna make my students read this tbqh. Edited November 10, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rpeg Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Not sure that admiring successful rhetoric while throwing ethics in the can will take us anywhere worth going. We already know the most depraved leaders in history were masters of rhetoric, it goes hand-in-hand with totalitarianism. Does not demand respect whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumi Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 My prediction: A year from now. Trump has the highest approval rating of any president in American history. Doesn't fulfil even a third of all the stuff he threatened. Becomes practically a democrat. Cue Trump supporters. "He fucking lied to us. He's just like all the rest of them." You heard it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 joshuaTX, I liked McCain before he started campaigning. If he'd stuck to his core beliefs I might've voted for him. But getting his knob in the hands of the R elites or whoever turned his message and you could see his change. Lost a lot of respect for him, though he has kept some things true to his beliefs, but he's basically any other Republican at this point. yeah he's definitely not someone to idolize anymore by any means. he knows the ropes though and from what still read about him he's a legislator doing to his job. not long ago i flipped on him speaking at a town hall randomly and it was a refreshingly normal, calm, civil Q&A about policies between him and constituents. he's another republican sure, but he's one who is threatened by the fact that he is an incumbent. tea party / trump supporters are bent on replacing him and others with some mouth breeder newbie simply because he's been in office in a long time. i'm not opposed to term limits but being for them out of convenience and faux principle alone is ridiculous and irresponsible. i still don't mind senators like him in office, even if they are pretty unlikable. Agreed on all points. The term limit thing could gain traction over the next few years with whatever upheavals come about, but I don't think they're generally necessary. State and local politics are in my experience pretty good at getting rid of someone if they turn shit. Not always of course...but yeah I've definitely seen McCain here and there being a good decent guy with some valid arguments, but that Palin and other campaign compromises really soured me on him in that sort of a position of power. I surely don't keep up with his day to day operations of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 My prediction: A year from now. Trump has the highest approval rating of any president in American history. Doesn't fulfil even a third of all the stuff he threatened. Becomes practically a democrat. Cue Trump supporters. "He fucking lied to us. He's just like all the rest of them." You heard it here first. Hard to disagree with this. Considering his admin apparently has only started the hiring process for staffers, they'll be lucky if they pass any legislation in his first year. He won't be able to fulfill many of his promises. TPP will probably not get signed though. The Wall was always a pipe dream, and deporting immigrants is a multi-year project that no one knows how they're going to pay for it. Doublename: awesome. What do you teach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkeyZ865 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) The question isn't "What isn't Trump going to do", it's "What is Trump actually going to get done?". It's not even a matter of being blocked by congress but if he's even going to try to do it. He's given so many major promises that he's probably going to honor less of them than Obama. EDIT: He's certainly not going to be "the savior of the republic" or "LITERALLY HITLER". The only excuse he has to follow the wishes of his lowest info voters is to get elected again. Edited November 10, 2016 by clarktrent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 My prediction: A year from now. Trump has the highest approval rating of any president in American history. Doesn't fulfil even a third of all the stuff he threatened. Becomes practically a democrat. Cue Trump supporters. "He fucking lied to us. He's just like all the rest of them." You heard it here first. Hard to disagree with this. Considering his admin apparently has only started the hiring process for staffers, they'll be lucky if they pass any legislation in his first year. He won't be able to fulfill many of his promises. TPP will probably not get signed though. The Wall was always a pipe dream, and deporting immigrants is a multi-year project that no one knows how they're going to pay for it. Doublename: awesome. What do you teach? http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days could be except his first 100 days looks downright malicious * THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities Los Angeles Washington, D.C. New York City Jersey City Berkeley, California Coachella, California Philadelphia San Francisco Santa Ana San Jose Oakland Salt Lake City Dallas Houston Detroit Chicago Salinas, California Minneapolis Miami Denver Baltimore Seattle New Haven Somerville Cambridge Portland, Maine Portland, OR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkeyZ865 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 /pol/ will lose their minds in a year or so I'd say. 75% of /pol/ are either too young to vote or are using unseen levels of ironic trolling. No matter what God Emperor Trump does they'll praise him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumi Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 It's kind of disheartening to read that only something like 51% of the population actually even bothered to vote. We're talking millions of people who just invisible. Also, I've no real love for Trump but I found this sort of ironic and made me feel good in a way. The idea that you keep you going, no matter what they say. How much they laugh at you. Five years ago. Today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolkeyZ865 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Maybe more people would trust Trump if he didn't personally insult someone then praise them the next day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) My prediction: A year from now. Trump has the highest approval rating of any president in American history. Doesn't fulfil even a third of all the stuff he threatened. Becomes practically a democrat. Cue Trump supporters. "He fucking lied to us. He's just like all the rest of them." You heard it here first. Hard to disagree with this. Considering his admin apparently has only started the hiring process for staffers, they'll be lucky if they pass any legislation in his first year. He won't be able to fulfill many of his promises. TPP will probably not get signed though. The Wall was always a pipe dream, and deporting immigrants is a multi-year project that no one knows how they're going to pay for it. Doublename: awesome. What do you teach? I teach middle and high school US History. My 11th graders are just getting to the Gilded Age now, so this article fits in nicely. Thanks for posting it. Edited November 10, 2016 by doublename Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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