zlemflolia Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Either way, in the moment, it makes me very sad. Wish people (myself included) could take a step back and focus more on how we're all alike, rather than trying to force one ideology down someone else's throat. Nope, bash their metaphorical skulls in, they're killing millions with their stances on healthcare and climate change, I don't feel sad, these people aren't humane and won't start being so It's not some nice game where we're all on the same side at the end of the day and these are just temporary issues, these people are genuinely bad of their own accord, can't keep giving grown adults the intellectual benefit of the doubt with these toddler level anti-intellectual and anti-nuance viewpoints Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 So I started reading Fahrenheit 451 having never gotten around to it as a teenager or college student, and I feel like one of those clinging onto find meaning and truth to no avail in real life but more as a private act of rebellion. I can't even fathom being an academic or intellectual under a full-fledged regime as people are and have been elsewhere. I think I might just bow out altogether, this thread included. The futility of it all. Desire to move offline into the middle of nowhere is high. AKA trolling. It's trolling on a national scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Either way, in the moment, it makes me very sad. Wish people (myself included) could take a step back and focus more on how we're all alike, rather than trying to force one ideology down someone else's throat. Nope, bash their metaphorical skulls in, they're killing millions with their stances on healthcare and climate change, I don't feel sad, these people aren't humane and won't start being so It's not some nice game where we're all on the same side at the end of the day and these are just temporary issues, these people are genuinely bad of their own accord, can't keep giving grown adults the intellectual benefit of the doubt with these toddler level anti-intellectual and anti-nuance viewpoints Indeed. Head in the sand ignorance and brazen refusal to admit you don't know anything. Compounded by the 2018 internet decimation of the ideas of truth and reality. Philosophically pretty interesting time if you can ignore the stupidity of refusing to accept the doom of your species. If only conservative meant conserving ALL life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 If only conservative meant conserving ALL life. Heh...yeah. Really though, what the hell ARE they conserving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) So I started reading Fahrenheit 451 having never gotten around to it as a teenager or college student, and I feel like one of those clinging onto find meaning and truth to no avail in real life but more as a private act of rebellion. I can't even fathom being an academic or intellectual under a full-fledged regime as people are and have been elsewhere. I think I might just bow out altogether, this thread included. The futility of it all. Desire to move offline into the middle of nowhere is high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmnp7ghGPk I hear you, there is a futile feeling of it all, especially considering this trumpism thing seems to only be growing and normalizing. Theres this sentiment... Like hey, if it's not recycled into a meme, you've wasted the opportunity to cash in on it... Or... Don't get angry bro, it is what it is... If that's the way our generation and the ones around us handle apathy/frustration, (purely through irony and absurdity) then fuck us, revolution as we know it is dead. Discourse is dead. Intellectualism is dead. We can't even turn our frustration into goddamn art (and no, memes are not art, they're social media attention-grabs wrapped in adolescent humor--with the rare exception of tasteful absurdity--nothing more). We used to be what I'd consider one of the greatest generations, if not, the greatest. Edited October 9, 2018 by Lane Visitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 you've only got to put up w/it for another 15 years or so. by then we'll all be embroiled in total collapse of the environment/climate and just trying to scrounge enough rainwater from the rooftops to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Visitor Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Also, we'll never learn the simple truth that responding to his lunacy only feeds it. I dont know how you fight a tyrant or oppressive regime/culture in 2018, but I know it's not through criticism, eye rolling, hashtagging, retweeting. Social media has the potential to mobilize and change the world, and it has. But it can't be used as a catch-all template to speak out and create change. I can't stress enough how our im-over-it critique of trump has given him the incredible power he has today. Much like a Kardashian, much like a Kanye, much like a Paris Hilton. We roll our eyes but we WANT to see it, hear it, feel it. We want to feel the obnoxious energy he emits. Because it's potent and nothing more. He's the Hollywood mafia boss, we know we hate him, but we love to watch the wreckage. We love to chime in and be a part of it all. We've made him a god. He is our own making. We're all just looking in the mirror, that's all it really is. Edited October 9, 2018 by Lane Visitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Also, we'll never learn the simple truth that responding to his lunacy only feeds it. I dont know how you fight a tyrant or oppressive regime/culture in 2018, but I know it's not through criticism, eye rolling, hashtagging, retweeting. Social media has the potential to mobilize and change the world, and it has. But it can't be used as a catch-all template to speak out and create change. I can't stress enough how our im-over-it critique of trump has given him the incredible power he has today. Much like a Kardashian, much like a Kanye, much like a Paris Hilton. We roll our eyes but we WANT to see it, hear it, feel it. We want to feel the obnoxious energy he emits. Because it's potent and nothing more. He's the Hollywood mafia boss, we know we hate him, but we love to watch the wreckage. We love to chime in and be a part of it all. We've made him a god. He is our own making. We're all just looking in the mirror, that's all it really is. yes. every bit of attention, good or bad, just amplifies what he says and does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeAreOceans Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 wasn't sure where else to post this, but since we're getting apocalyptic and I can't imagine the US' big boy making any drastic changes soon: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309 Their dramatic report on keeping that rise under 1.5 degrees C says the world is now completely off track, heading instead towards 3C. we might see a mass extinction event in our lives! awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) im just gonna listen to boc and sleep alot wasn't sure where else to post this, but since we're getting apocalyptic and I can't imagine the US' big boy making any drastic changes soon: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309 Their dramatic report on keeping that rise under 1.5 degrees C says the world is now completely off track, heading instead towards 3C. we might see a mass extinction event in our lives! awesome! maybs this needs it's own thread? Edited October 9, 2018 by MIXL2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eczem Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 im just gonna listen to boc and sleep alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 bbc headline yesterday was how can individuals and governments make a difference nothing about massive corporations lets just remind ourselves: there is a climate change denialist in the wh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweepstakes Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Heh...yeah. Really though, what the hell ARE they conserving?unborn babbies but once they're born, those welfare babbies and their freeloading parents can get fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patternoverlap Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 They are conserving the rich white christian man's lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YangYing Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 take a read of these pages https://www.facebook.com/presidentdonaldtrump16/https://www.facebook.com/OfficialRightWingNews just for fun it all reads just like most of this thread tbqh interesting claim. care to elaborate? EDIT: damn this was days ago. anyway mixl just another reminder that you're a gronk who paints the worst, most laziest false equivalences as a substitute for any substantive argument or belief in anything. yes, people who think other people deserve healthcare are exactly the same as people who don't. excellent detective work. i meant in the sense that it's one group of people making fun of and rlly mad at the other group of people (altough this thread does have plenty of good discussion in stark contrast to those pages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) wasn't sure where else to post this, but since we're getting apocalyptic and I can't imagine the US' big boy making any drastic changes soon: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45775309 Their dramatic report on keeping that rise under 1.5 degrees C says the world is now completely off track, heading instead towards 3C. we might see a mass extinction event in our lives! awesome! our federal Environment Minister has rejected the findings in defence of coal. these fucking retards. edit: btw she used to be a lawyer for the mining industry. Edited October 9, 2018 by usagi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) climate science deniers who are in power and knowingly ignore evidence need to be held responsible for the deaths of millions, unironically. potentially even the upheaval of the lives of billions and the destruction of large regions of the earth for the coming thousands of years. just because there's a long time horizon doesn't mean it's not real. we need to revamp the legal system so that white collar crime and political corruption is taken more seriously than poor people stealing food it's ironic and disturbing that despite being such an intelligent species with so much technology, we can still destroy our own environment and allow clearly outdated social and political systems rule us to the point where the obvious action that needs to be performed is instead not performed in favor of letting business continue as normal. what is happening? clearly democracy is broken and we need a method for legitimately vetted platonic philosopher kings to overrule the mob when relevant. but that's what the electoral college was supposed to do and it failed. what do we even do? Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambermonk Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Well, if there's any good news to be had in this malaise, seems like the transition from Columbus Day to Indigenous Peoples Day is becoming more official. More of us are acknowledging what an asshole Columbus was.Maybe it's foolish for me to clutch onto naive optimism in these times, but any inkling of hope I have left for this country's direction right now lies with the midterms. Assuming we have safeguards against tampering by the GOP and accomplices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Haley's gone. wastebag. it's ironic and disturbing that despite being such an intelligent species with so much technology, we can still destroy our own environment and allow clearly outdated social and political systems rule us to the point where the obvious action that needs to be performed is instead not performed in favor of letting business continue as normal. I'm of the opinion that raw thinking capacity is not an accurate measure of intelligence, but rather choosing and enacting the right decisions with the faculties you have and within the framework you live in defines "intelligent" behaviour. by this yardstick, collective humanity is inferior to many species on this planet. the more choice we have in our actions, the more stupid and regressive we become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendish Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 climate science deniers who are in power and knowingly ignore evidence need to be held responsible for the deaths of millions, unironically. potentially even the upheaval of the lives of billions and the destruction of large regions of the earth for the coming thousands of years. just because there's a long time horizon doesn't mean it's not real. we need to revamp the legal system so that white collar crime and political corruption is taken more seriously than poor people stealing food it's ironic and disturbing that despite being such an intelligent species with so much technology, we can still destroy our own environment and allow clearly outdated social and political systems rule us to the point where the obvious action that needs to be performed is instead not performed in favor of letting business continue as normal. what is happening? clearly democracy is broken and we need a method for legitimately vetted platonic philosopher kings to overrule the mob when relevant. but that's what the electoral college was supposed to do and it failed. what do we even do? maybe we are just not that intelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 i think kanye/ye wants in on the bilderberg group meetings because he's finally realized the fashion industry isn't letting him in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) That's not true though, we are a very intelligent species. Even the average retard Trump voter is extremely intelligent and capable of performing very complicated tasks that no other animal is nearly capable of doing. For any other species on Earth in our situation, even the most intelligent individuals of the species, they would not only be incapable of fixing the situation, but incapable of even recognizing and understanding it. The fact that we can do this means we are highly intelligent. You're not taking into account all of the cattle who die due to starvation caused by over-grazing, they just don't complain or even conceptualize a lack of grass as a problem caused by their collective behavior as a species. They don't think in the terms we are thinking of with regards to climate change, they just die when they die then repopulate if they can, and if they don't we discount them. Look at the dinosaurs. They weren't thinking of creating Mars colonies like us. Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) An interesting thing I once heard though is that for some species, like ants, their political system is not just something they intellectually conceptualized and chose to implement in some parts of the world like us primates, it's a part of their genetics itself and they are therefore incapable of resisting it like we are. It's implemented specifically in ants through (metaphorically, I assume they don't have any consciousness) subconscious, unavoidable reactions to certain pheremones. They bury their dead when they smell a dead ant body, they build ant bridges when it's required, and they just do it even if it's not best for them. They've evolved to be even more selfless and collectivist than humans despite having no conceivable intelligence, only emergent behaviors as a result of simple impulsive actions performed in response to certain simple inputs. So I guess you're right that since we have so much choice, and idealistic political systems are not embedded into our behavior patterns at a deep level, this is what lets us make these mistakes. Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Look at the dinosaurs. They weren't thinking of creating Mars colonies like us. lol'd irl, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlemflolia Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) In continuation of the ants post, the issue though is that this scenario, despite resulting in a greater ability to realize collectivist political systems, seems to be paired with a lack of general purpose reasoning ability. We are consciously Turing Complete and can direct our computational ability at solving arbitrary problems, they are not. It's just that we are directing our reasoning abilities at the wrong problems and not optimizing correctly For instance, there are people currently studying math and trying to solve theorems. This is great, but the collective returns for humanity would probably be greater if a higher percentage of mathematicians directed their mathematical abilities towards learning more effective methods of teaching math to other students at a young age, because this may provide exponential returns. If younger students can learn math faster the gains keep compounding on each other and they can become more useful contributing members of society sooner. This affects areas like interpreting statistics used by politicians, making them more intelligent voters, and gives them greater financial ability as well since they will be more likely to be able to manage their money in an intelligent way. If x% of good but not amazing mathematicians stopped bothering to try and instead focused on studying mathematical pedagogy instead of mathematics itself, then if this paid off for even 10 students, those students may be more capable of taking care of their families and some fraction of the offspring of those 10 bettered families may become mathematicians in the next generation, and some fraction after that in the next exponentially larger generation of people affected. As long as the sum of all fractions of affected people in all affected generations exceeds 1 it's worth it for that mathematician to forego all mathematical discovery to instead enable a greater chance of mathematical discovery in future generations. This may be incorrect and it's just a dumb example, but it seems like even in intellectual areas like math there are practical optimizations that could bring benefit which don't really seem to be prioritized, and they all relate to elongating our investment time horizons. Anyway why did I type this, I don't know. But it's a recurring thought I have. Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeffolia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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