jordan peterson

[hello spiral]

A lot of SJW stuff annoys me, but JP is fun to make fun of.

 

 

I'm not saying he's beyond being joked about. The fanfic in this thread is currently my new masturbation aid

 

 

Chill zeff, I merely used you to make an exaggerated and comedic point 

When did I claim to be an intellectual?

 

[YangYing]

 

Unfortunately, as much as I love the fanfic, the sneering attitude displayed by alco & co is counter productive and only serving to make the shit state of affairs worse.

 

My opinion is JP seems to be necessary at the moment. The people that are alienated by social justice politics and probably contributed to Trump becoming president are listening to him. And though he does have some bizarre things going on in his rhetoric, the baseline of common sense which is being so ridiculed as 'obvious' in this thread and by his critics isn't that obvious to his fans it seems.

 

If he makes just one zeffolia stop believing evil women are trying to steal his cum, call me a Peterson fan. And yeah, what xxx said, he's articulated this way better than I have.

 

A lot of SJW stuff annoys me, but JP is fun to make fun of. That said, I heard one white girl speaking very negatively about another white girl with dreads because of the cultural appropriation. Her outrage at the white dreads was so over the top it seemed like some sort of loyalty pledge when you enter a gang or become made in the mafia. She was performing a verbal hit on the dreaded white girl, just not to her face.

 

[chenGOD]

 

 

If he makes just one zeffolia stop believing evil women are trying to steal his cum, call me a Peterson fan. And yeah, what xxx said, he's articulated this way better than I have.

 

I never once said any woman wants to steal my cum, or anyone's cum.  I pointed out that the legal system in the US allows women to demand child support from men IF they do steal their cum, despite the fact that this is almost an abstract sort of rape (involuntary fatherhood).  The men have no recourse, no rights.  This is one symptom of a larger gender equality issue - a lack of male legal rights to everything from financial autonomy (alimony) to bodily autonomy (selective service and circumcision) - and nobody takes it seriously

 

You know nothing about me.  I've been threatened with false rape accusations right to my face as she stands there grinning.  Who knows how my life would have been turned upside down if she went through with it.  This isn't a bunch of fake hypothetical situations to make fun of, it's a reality and nobody will ever change my mind with insults, only facts.  Nobody ever provides any though.

 

I would love to be proven wrong about this but it doesn't happen, and it's really disappointing.  If you're such an intellectual, how about you do the honors and refute these realities.

 

 

A) It is virtually impossible to steal a dude's cum and impregnate yourself with it, unless it's stolen from a condom within an hour or so, and then by some very slim chance the girl manages to impregnate herself. It's a ridiculous example to use when trying to illustrate your point about the US law.

 

B) This is not abstract rape, and to make that equivalency is an insult to survivors (both male and female) of rape or other forms of sexual abuse.

 

C) When a judge in family court makes an order for child support, the judge is not thinking about men's or women's rights - the judge is thinking about how to support the child so that they can survive until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Is it shitty for the guy? Sure thing, but at least the guy is a grown man, capable of earning a living. Think of how shitty it's going to be for a kid with that sort of mom (thankfully they are outliers).

 

D) If the woman is found to be abusing the child support, then it is entirely possible to go back before the court and request that the child support order be changed (https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/programs/css/changing_a_child_support_order.pdf). Child support laws vary from state to state, and the success rate of getting an order changed will also vary.

 

E) Is there bias in the courts? Undoubtedly - society has evolved within the confines of what is colloquially referred to as "the patriarchy" which is in reality a complex set of customs, norms, rules, and laws that largely define and give reality to ideas around roles that men and women (please forgive the omission, other gendered-people) perform in society. Evolution does occur within these confines, but this can take time. One aspect evolving with respect to the roles men and women perform is the idea that women are automatically the best parent. This takes time to filter through all aspects of society (and it is entirely possible that there are some parts of society that will not accept this idea). This is similar to the idea that men should be the "bread winner" for the family still being prevalent, but changing.

 

F) The data that is generally used to show bias against fathers (which does exist, undoubtedly) tends to be from the early part of this century or before. More recent data is needed in order to determine if the changing ideas of the parenting roles that both men and women perform is making it through to the courts. In the meantime, the vast majority of custody (and hence child support) cases continue to be settled outside the court system, so any bias there will be on the part of the individuals involved, and not the courts.

 

You keep using the word "rights" but as far as I can tell, the only right men really lack compared to women (at least in the US), is the right to vote - and that's only because of the silly construct that keeps men in the military but not women.

[chenGOD]

 

 

Unfortunately, as much as I love the fanfic, the sneering attitude displayed by alco & co is counter productive and only serving to make the shit state of affairs worse.

 

My opinion is JP seems to be necessary at the moment. The people that are alienated by social justice politics and probably contributed to Trump becoming president are listening to him. And though he does have some bizarre things going on in his rhetoric, the baseline of common sense which is being so ridiculed as 'obvious' in this thread and by his critics isn't that obvious to his fans it seems.

 

If he makes just one zeffolia stop believing evil women are trying to steal his cum, call me a Peterson fan. And yeah, what xxx said, he's articulated this way better than I have.

 

A lot of SJW stuff annoys me, but JP is fun to make fun of. That said, I heard one white girl speaking very negatively about another white girl with dreads because of the cultural appropriation. Her outrage at the white dreads was so over the top it seemed like some sort of loyalty pledge when you enter a gang or become made in the mafia. She was performing a verbal hit on the dreaded white girl, just not to her face.

 

 

 

j pizzle is a much better comedian than he is psychologist or whatever else he's playing at. Good humour in that clip.

(Totally wrong about cultural appropriation, but that's only a tiny bit of the clip).

[YangYing]

(Totally wrong about cultural appropriation, but that's only a tiny bit of the clip).

o no autecher are doing hip hop beats I'm offended how dare they missuse my culture which is mine

[triachus]

two things that make this thread worthwhile:

 

 

1) the fanfic

 

2) someone actually had to be told "It is virtually impossible to steal a dude's cum and impregnate yourself with it"

[WeAreOceans]

2) someone actually had to be told "It is virtually impossible to steal a dude's cum and impregnate yourself with it"

 

peak watmm

 

RE alienation - this is much broader than sadbois becoming staunchly conservative or flirting with far-right ideologies, the same pesky blue haired sidecut feminists they hate so much also find themselves alienated by belittling conservative rhetoric and end up flirting with far-left thought instead. Can't really comment who's "in the wrong" or started all this, but there's an overall rejection of the status quo with young uns happening.

[mcbpete]

I base people on where the fall on the care meter

 

 

(the only problem is that I never got round to calibrating the definition of the two extremes)

[YangYing]

chen posted a very good article that completely dismantles peterson's take on "post modernism". conveniently enough no one responded to it and instead people keep posting about nobody having a counterargument. peterson has not read most of the source materials written by the thinkers he's critical of. that's deeply dishonest for a so called intellectual to be doing. why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me.

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/

A good read for people asking for a serious take on Peterson’s intellectual vapidity.

From what the article describes as post-modernism I don't believe the people driving research within that philosophy have read the source material either. Atleast from this description

 

(clip is from a much larger discussion  on what happened with Lindsay Shepherd which chen I felt dismissed before in the thread.. I think is worth watching, but maybs is just because i got too much free time)

 

It is really annoying because all information outlets feel so biased.. one tells you "everything this person says is garbage" and the other says the exact opposite. Why can't there be a consensus? And the worrying part is how much following both sides start getting and the amount of polarization it leads to especially on the internet... which is then used as leverage by both extremes in the political spectrum. Basically what Brian Dance was saying before.

 

idunno man is such a weird world.. my fear is not so much the (i feel) exaggerated narrative of the "post-modernist Neo marxists" that Petersson presents. But more the crazy polarization social media creates which is pushed by extreme views to end in conflict... time will tell what happens

[auxien]

2) someone actually had to be told "It is virtually impossible to steal a dude's cum and impregnate yourself with it"

Multiple times. I bet he still doesn't believe it though.

[KovalainenFanBoy]

[Alcofribas]

 

chen posted a very good article that completely dismantles peterson's take on "post modernism". conveniently enough no one responded to it and instead people keep posting about nobody having a counterargument. peterson has not read most of the source materials written by the thinkers he's critical of. that's deeply dishonest for a so called intellectual to be doing. why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me.

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/

A good read for people asking for a serious take on Peterson’s intellectual vapidity.

From what the article describes as post-modernism I don't believe the people driving research within that philosophy have read the source material either. Atleast from this description

 

 

lmfao "i just read a paper that said mathematics is whiteness," mouth agape in a frozen pose of shocked silence. 

 

what a bunch of wimps. 

 

also lol good to know economics is an empirical science now. 

[YangYing]

o no I can't fight alco pls help

[chenGOD]

Can't quote or watch youtubs at work but first:

 

"o no autecher are doing hip hop beats I'm offended how dare they missuse my culture which is mine "

 

Is not cultural appropriation.

 

 

And second:

The Lindsey Shepherd bullshit, is exactly that - bullshit. Bullshit all around, except for on Peterson's part.

Bullshit from the university staff who claimed there was a report, bullshit for having a hearing, and bullshit in how the case gets portrayed in the media.

 

I can't speak to that definition of postmodernism you posted, cause it's in a youtub clip (post text if possible?)

[YangYing]

 

 

Can't quote or watch youtubs at work but first:

 

"o no autecher are doing hip hop beats I'm offended how dare they missuse my culture which is mine "

 

Is not cultural appropriation.

 

 

And second:

The Lindsey Shepherd bullshit, is exactly that - bullshit. Bullshit all around, except for on Peterson's part.

Bullshit from the university staff who claimed there was a report, bullshit for having a hearing, and bullshit in how the case gets portrayed in the media.

 

I can't speak to that definition of postmodernism you posted, cause it's in a youtub clip (post text if possible?)

na u take a look at it later

 

as for the ca thing, that's kinda my problem w it.. who defines it? what if I am aboherrently offended at these white kids doing the hip hop on their pew pew shit music? iunno man maybs is just ignorance on my part..

[chenGOD]

It's not hard to figure out - cultural exchange (as is often done in music) is not cultural appropriation.

Shit like "native dance class" is blatant cultural appropriation.

Corn rows probably fall in a grey area, although regardless, corn rows just look dumb as fuck on the majority of people, never mind if they're white, black, Asian, brown, whatevs.

[roasty]

Who gets to be in charge of what is and isn't cultural appropriation

[YangYing]

 

 

chen posted a very good article that completely dismantles peterson's take on "post modernism". conveniently enough no one responded to it and instead people keep posting about nobody having a counterargument. peterson has not read most of the source materials written by the thinkers he's critical of. that's deeply dishonest for a so called intellectual to be doing. why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me.

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/

A good read for people asking for a serious take on Peterson’s intellectual vapidity.

From what the article describes as post-modernism I don't believe the people driving research within that philosophy have read the source material either. Atleast from this description

 

(clip is from a much larger discussion  on what happened with Lindsay Shepherd which chen I felt dismissed before in the thread.. I think is worth watching, but maybs is just because i got too much free time)

 

It is really annoying because all information outlets feel so biased.. one tells you "everything this person says is garbage" and the other says the exact opposite. Why can't there be a consensus? And the worrying part is how much following both sides start getting and the amount of polarization it leads to especially on the internet... which is then used as leverage by both extremes in the political spectrum. Basically what Brian Dance was saying before.

 

idunno man is such a weird world.. my fear is not so much the (i feel) exaggerated narrative of the "post-modernist Neo marxists" that Petersson presents. But more the crazy polarization social media creates which is pushed by extreme views to end in conflict... time will tell what happens

 

lmfao "i just read a paper that said mathematics is whiteness," mouth agape in a frozen pose of shocked silence. 

 

what a bunch of wimps. 

 

also lol good to know economics is an empirical science now.

 

I mean are you insinuating that mathematics is whiteness? fucks sake man maybs I should stop solving these partial differantial equations and pursuing a career in engineering then.. since i'm just screaming white supremacy every time I solve an integral.

 

It's not hard to figure out - cultural exchange (as is often done in music) is not cultural appropriation.

Shit like "native dance class" is blatant cultural appropriation.

Corn rows probably fall in a grey area, although regardless, corn rows just look dumb as fuck on the majority of people, never mind if they're white, black, Asian, brown, whatevs.

but why is one right and the other wrong..?  where is the line defined and who defines it? what if I want to learn the native dance? There are for example "buggkurser" here in sweden which would correspond to the "native dance class" . There are also "salsa dance courses" which is a danceform from colombia (my country of origin).. should I be outraged about that? is the problem in the use of language? 

 

edit: If I remember correctly this is part of the critique done in the discussion (not in the clip) i linked to around 58 minutes about these really nebulous definitions that follow from legislation such as yours (and ours in sweden!)

[Alcofribas]

 

 

 

chen posted a very good article that completely dismantles peterson's take on "post modernism". conveniently enough no one responded to it and instead people keep posting about nobody having a counterargument. peterson has not read most of the source materials written by the thinkers he's critical of. that's deeply dishonest for a so called intellectual to be doing. why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me.

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2018/01/23/postmodernism-not-take-place-jordan-petersons-12-rules-life/

A good read for people asking for a serious take on Peterson’s intellectual vapidity.

From what the article describes as post-modernism I don't believe the people driving research within that philosophy have read the source material either. Atleast from this description

 

(clip is from a much larger discussion  on what happened with Lindsay Shepherd which chen I felt dismissed before in the thread.. I think is worth watching, but maybs is just because i got too much free time)

 

It is really annoying because all information outlets feel so biased.. one tells you "everything this person says is garbage" and the other says the exact opposite. Why can't there be a consensus? And the worrying part is how much following both sides start getting and the amount of polarization it leads to especially on the internet... which is then used as leverage by both extremes in the political spectrum. Basically what Brian Dance was saying before.

 

idunno man is such a weird world.. my fear is not so much the (i feel) exaggerated narrative of the "post-modernist Neo marxists" that Petersson presents. But more the crazy polarization social media creates which is pushed by extreme views to end in conflict... time will tell what happens

 

lmfao "i just read a paper that said mathematics is whiteness," mouth agape in a frozen pose of shocked silence. 

 

what a bunch of wimps. 

 

also lol good to know economics is an empirical science now.

 

I mean are you insinuating that mathematics is whiteness? fucks sake man maybs I should stop solving these partial differantial equations and pursuing a career in engineering then.. since i'm just screaming white supremacy every time I solve an integral.

 

 

i'm laughing at the level of discussion, which is trite and idiotic. 

 

i think it's sad that this extremely dull click-bait bullshit passes for serious discussion. a couple of dudes sitting around being outraged by sentences from a book or some ridiculous sjw pronouncement is extremely lame. what exactly do you think is being added to the discussion by things like this? in what sense does this differ from the kind of outraged posturing you can find practically every second on fox news? and don't tell me it's just part of some broader discussion i'm reading out of context bc every time some one has said this itt i've taken a look at the whole discussion and found a mixture of half-baked amateurish reasoning, cheap sensationalism and outright lies.

 

i find it depressing that the very real and desperate situation that lots of regular men find themselves in (as xxx has mentioned recently in a very decent post) is used as some kind of justification for this kind of scandal-mongering bullshit. peterson is a dishonest self-help guru and people are willing to completely ignore how full of shit he very obviously is bc it's easy to consume cheap outrage and simplistic enemies. there is indeed a wealth of ignorant "discourse" and "identity politics" but it's pretty obvious peterson is participating in it and profiting greatly. he sheds no light on the material or psychological realities of the kind of vulnerable men he's exploiting but instead keeps them distracted by irrelevant outrage. and it's very good for business. 

 

yesterday he retweeted an alt-right parody account called "official antifa" as though it was a genuine presentation of a leftist position (incidentally this was also done by the new york times). it was swiftly and repeatedly pointed out that this was an obvious parody post (nyt posted a correction), yet his tweet still remains posted on his page without acknowledgement where his half a million followers can see it as if it's real. a couple of weeks ago he posted like 20 tweets at a zizek joke account thinking it was really zizek's twitter. does this sound like a serious guy to you? 

[cwmbrancity]

piss is stored in testicles?

 

sheeeeeeieeeeeeeeeeeeeet, far out

[YangYing]

^ I agree with your last paragraph (though it's quite possible to be a serious guy in your 50s and to be less nuanced with your social media use than someone who's grown up with the stuff) and partially with your first.

 

But this is silliness: "he sheds no light on the material or psychological realities of the kind of vulnerable men he's exploiting but instead keeps them distracted by irrelevant outrage. and it's very good for business. "

There are literally 10s if not 100s of hours of the guy's university lectures in psychology (from before he blew up re C-16) online.

He's a very engaging lecturer and communicates ideas in ways that people find easy to grasp, hence his popularity.

 

I'm not very interested in the 'cheap outrage' factory coming from all directions (I lie, it's fascinating) but to dismiss the man completely is.............."trite and idiotic".

 

 

thanks

[zlemflolia]

 

 

 

If he makes just one zeffolia stop believing evil women are trying to steal his cum, call me a Peterson fan. And yeah, what xxx said, he's articulated this way better than I have.

 

I never once said any woman wants to steal my cum, or anyone's cum.  I pointed out that the legal system in the US allows women to demand child support from men IF they do steal their cum, despite the fact that this is almost an abstract sort of rape (involuntary fatherhood).  The men have no recourse, no rights.  This is one symptom of a larger gender equality issue - a lack of male legal rights to everything from financial autonomy (alimony) to bodily autonomy (selective service and circumcision) - and nobody takes it seriously

 

You know nothing about me.  I've been threatened with false rape accusations right to my face as she stands there grinning.  Who knows how my life would have been turned upside down if she went through with it.  This isn't a bunch of fake hypothetical situations to make fun of, it's a reality and nobody will ever change my mind with insults, only facts.  Nobody ever provides any though.

 

I would love to be proven wrong about this but it doesn't happen, and it's really disappointing.  If you're such an intellectual, how about you do the honors and refute these realities.

 

 

A) It is virtually impossible to steal a dude's cum and impregnate yourself with it, unless it's stolen from a condom within an hour or so, and then by some very slim chance the girl manages to impregnate herself. It's a ridiculous example to use when trying to illustrate your point about the US law.

 

B) This is not abstract rape, and to make that equivalency is an insult to survivors (both male and female) of rape or other forms of sexual abuse.

 

C) When a judge in family court makes an order for child support, the judge is not thinking about men's or women's rights - the judge is thinking about how to support the child so that they can survive until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Is it shitty for the guy? Sure thing, but at least the guy is a grown man, capable of earning a living. Think of how shitty it's going to be for a kid with that sort of mom (thankfully they are outliers).

 

D) If the woman is found to be abusing the child support, then it is entirely possible to go back before the court and request that the child support order be changed (https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/programs/css/changing_a_child_support_order.pdf). Child support laws vary from state to state, and the success rate of getting an order changed will also vary.

 

E) Is there bias in the courts? Undoubtedly - society has evolved within the confines of what is colloquially referred to as "the patriarchy" which is in reality a complex set of customs, norms, rules, and laws that largely define and give reality to ideas around roles that men and women (please forgive the omission, other gendered-people) perform in society. Evolution does occur within these confines, but this can take time. One aspect evolving with respect to the roles men and women perform is the idea that women are automatically the best parent. This takes time to filter through all aspects of society (and it is entirely possible that there are some parts of society that will not accept this idea). This is similar to the idea that men should be the "bread winner" for the family still being prevalent, but changing.

 

F) The data that is generally used to show bias against fathers (which does exist, undoubtedly) tends to be from the early part of this century or before. More recent data is needed in order to determine if the changing ideas of the parenting roles that both men and women perform is making it through to the courts. In the meantime, the vast majority of custody (and hence child support) cases continue to be settled outside the court system, so any bias there will be on the part of the individuals involved, and not the courts.

 

You keep using the word "rights" but as far as I can tell, the only right men really lack compared to women (at least in the US), is the right to vote - and that's only because of the silly construct that keeps men in the military but not women.

 

 

Yeah, just the right to vote, really trivial /s

 

And I see no refutations just you attempting to downplay the situation and say it's not "that" bad, and that it's understandable because things take time to change right? 

 

You act like 1 hour is a really long time - it's not.  It takes a couple minutes to go into a bathroom right after him, which is typically a very normal thing to do, even if the girl takes a while in there.  

 

I love how you call mandatory male selective service registry, and none for females, a "silly construct" instead of an unconscionably sexist situation against men. Somehow I get the feeling you'd even try to spin it as being sexist against women more than it is against men.

 

And I said abstract sort of rape because it IS an abstract sort of rape, and that is -not- an insult to "real" rape survivors.  Unless you want to contradict the views of many feminists, who think telling a woman you've had a vasectomy to trick them into having unprotected sex with you, or pretending to wear a condom, then getting her pregnant as a result, is rape.  Similar this woman causes the man to become a parent without consent.  It's not as serious but it's in a similar vein of ethical offenses

 

Men lack lots of other legal rights such as the right to abdicate parental responsibilities which is the primary discussion (cum stealing straw men) that started this again.  Women have that right

[cwmbrancity]

cum is stolen through a straw?

 

tasty, i meant, nevermind, practically-minded though

[Alcofribas]

^ I agree with your last paragraph (though it's quite possible to be a serious guy in your 50s and to be less nuanced with your social media use than someone who's grown up with the stuff) and partially with your first.

 

But this is silliness: "he sheds no light on the material or psychological realities of the kind of vulnerable men he's exploiting but instead keeps them distracted by irrelevant outrage. and it's very good for business. "

There are literally 10s if not 100s of hours of the guy's university lectures in psychology (from before he blew up re C-16) online.

He's a very engaging lecturer and communicates ideas in ways that people find easy to grasp, hence his popularity.

 

I'm not very interested in the 'cheap outrage' factory coming from all directions (I lie, it's fascinating) but to dismiss the man completely is.............."trite and idiotic".

 

 

 

i'm sorry but this doesn't stand up on it's own terms. we're supposed to value the 100s of hours he spent lecturing on psychology on a professional level and ignore the fact that he publicly throws around "crazy harpy" and "insane" as epithets against his opponents? is this the kind of behavior we should expect from a psychology professional? this comes up on practically every subject he speaks about. he's got years of professional academic experience and he still can't even manage to demonstrate that he has read the texts he holds entire lectures proselytizing about? i'm sorry but his whole analysis of foucault as some suicidal marxist is bad on your own terms -- it's not only historically false but it's extremely stupid analysis. 

[chenGOD]

Who said it was trivial? Not me.

 

It is a silly construct - it's silly because it creates an inequality in society. It's also silly because it was a construct created by men that hampers other men.

 

Somehow I don't give a damn what you think I might say - please try and concentrate on what I'm actually saying.

 

I'm not a feminist scholar, but a quick scan doesn't indicate that they would claim that as rape, rather it seems to be a fraud.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-rape/

 

In Canada, that is a difficult question to answer (on rights to abdicate parental responsibility), but here is a good shot at it.

https://thewalrus.ca/is-it-illegal-to-lie-about-using-contraception/

 

What other "rights" do men lack? Financial autonomy is not a right by the way.