2020 US Election

[auxien]

18 minutes ago, may be rude said:

dude you were responding to me seeing "we've seen different information"

was i supposed to have a citation for that comment? 

what public information are you referring to that backs up your ludicrous conspiracy theory

edit: you realize you're accusing Trump of purposefully killing American citizens en masse, right? this is an extraordinary claim.

Edited Sunday at 08:59 PM by auxien

[may be rude]

46 minutes ago, auxien said:

what public information are you referring to that backs up your ludicrous conspiracy theory

i put together a post back on page 7-4-24 in this thread:

Quote

why did eric trump say the trumps get all the money they need from russia?

why'd flynn lie to the fbi about talking about dropping sanctions with russian ambassador kislyak, before trump took office? flynn knew that he did and knew that it may have been on tape, but he chose to lie to the fbi about it. 

why'd trump bring manafort on to lead his campaign? manafort is a kremlin sphere dude and he proceeded to closely coordinate with russian intelligence officer kilimnik about details of the trump campaign. at the same time, russian intelligence was deploying campaign propaganda for trump online, and carefully executed a hack-and-leak attack that effectively lost the election for hillary.

why'd trump fire comey, after comey wouldn't end the investigation into flynn lying to the fbi?

why'd trump's doj try to prosecute fbi deputy directory andrew mccabe, who also worked on the investigation into trump's ties with russia? this was a rare case of a grand jury rejecting a requested indictment, very indicative of prosecutors seeking an improper prosecution. 

why did trump's doj leadership leak embarrassing text transcripts of fbi agents who worked on the trump/russia investigation?

why'd the trump team hide, even omitting it from security clearance forms, the 2016 trump tower meeting with a representative of the kremlin, about putin's wish to help the trump campaign?

how did papadopolos know russia was going to help trump campaign with dirt on hillary?

why did bill barr keep the mueller report hidden, for a month, instead releasing his own summary of it which misrepresented the report, that found 11 likely counts of obstruction of justice (some of which fully proved by evidence described in the report), and that described concerning connections between trump campaign and russian intelligence, and a lack of cooperation from the trump team with the investigation?

why did the bipartisan senate intel committee release a 5 part report of information gathered from its years-long investigation into connections between trump campaign and russian intelligence, including lots of details describing clear, nefarious, outright collusion, such as manafort's secretive coordination with kilmnik?

why'd trump, as president, sanction the international criminal court?

why'd he try to fire geoffrey berman right before he was about to indict ghislaine maxwell?

why does trump advocate for dissolving nato?

why'd he fuck up covid so bad when he could have just done a good job and won reelection?

why'd he try a coup?

why did he endanger the lives of pence, his family, and his secret service detail, on jan 6?

why did trump wait until more than an hour and a half after ashli babbit was shot to tell jan 6 rioters to disperse?

why'd he actively steal and keep extremely sensitive national defense information after leaving office?

why did his supreme court justices just give him a shocking immunity ruling, severely reducing any checks on abuse of DOJ by a president?

why has he been undermining faith in the justice system of the US, and trying to normalize the idea of political manipulation of DOJ?

 

just a few things off the top of my head, without trying to spend a lot of time on this.

 

now, in the debate, he implicitly announced he wants to talk to putin and that he's willing to let him have ukraine

that covers some important points, and those pieces of info come from solid sources

i added a couple more on 7-25:

Quote

why'd trump choose such a useless weirdo for vp? he has horrible positions on things like abortion. just learned jd vance is one of the most anti-ukraine people you can find. 

why'd trump leave the JCPOA, the deal with iran to keep them from pursuing nukes? now blinken says iran has a nuclear breakout time of a week.

 

but i guess you were kind of sloppily and rudely requesting citations for info i had seen that helped me be able to recognize trump's deliberate intent in his actions, in real time, in 2020, if i trace back the conversation. 

some good documents that informed an anticipation of trump attempting a coup (also good documents on trump/russia):

• mccabe's book "the threat"
• the senate select committee on intelligence's report on their investigation into trump's connections with russia, parts 1-5. the parts on manafort in part 5 are particularly worth reviewing
• the mueller report

there's a lot, man, it's going to be hard to pull together a comprehensive set of info i had seen which tipped me off to the potential reality that this dude could be up to some shit that was much darker than people would think. but there are some citations of just stuff i had seen before 2020

other good sources relevant to trump's connections to russia or his intentional coup, that came out since then:

• strzok's book "compromised"
• mccabe's book "where law ends"
• the house committee on january 6th's public hearings

so, there you go i guess you wanted examples of stuff i was familiar with to a greater extent than many other people. i hope that helps. i'm not sure why you're coming at me on this sunday afternoon. do you think i'm posting this shit for fun and careless with regard to whether i truely believe it's accurate?

Edited Sunday at 09:44 PM by may be rude

[zazen]

right theres a lot of trump/russia stuff, a lot of people think he's too cosy with Putin, that was a major talking point from 2016 to 2020 and the reason for his first impeachment, but its still a big leap from there to 'trump caused covid', I think thats why people are a bit baffled by your comments @may be rude

47 minutes ago, zazen said:

Just because someone benefits from something (Trump benefitting from covid, GWB 'benefitting' from 9/11 and the 'war on terror') it doesn't mean they planned it. Its just means they are opportunistic. To be good at politics you need to be opportunistic.

Trump was going to contest the 2020 election with whatever he could - allegation of voter fraud or whatever. As it turned out he tried to capitalise on mail-in ballots but in different circumstances (if the pandemic hadn't happened) he would have opportunistically gone on about something else, gerrymandering or voter suppression or anything.

The world is really fucking messy. Have you ever worked in an office and tried to get a bunch of people to organise something? Its fucking difficult. People get confused, collective ideas about what is supposed to happen diverge, a lot of overhead effort needs to be put in to keep people on the same page and even then there'll be endless debates about should we switch to a different page. I have a theory that most conspiracy theorists have never worked in an office, because if they had they'd know how hard organising is.

The military are farily organised but they still fuck a lot of things up.

As for Trump - Trump's team ended up doing a press conference in Four Seasons Landscaping for fuck's sake

 

Edited Sunday at 09:20 PM by zazen

[ignatius]

someone in FL tried to shoot trump again. they caught the guy later on I-95.  edit. .the guy didn't get off any shots.. but security (FBI) saw him and fired towards then they caught him later. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-campaign-says-candidate-safe-184345958.html

Edited Sunday at 09:29 PM by ignatius

[EdamAnchorman]

56 minutes ago, zazen said:

...I have a theory that most conspiracy theorists have never worked in an office, because if they had they'd know how hard organising is.

Even moreso if you've worked for the government.  I worked at a national lab for almost 3 years and after seeing first hand how the federal government actually works, the nuts and bolts of it all, I'm surprised we as a country have our shit together as much as we do.

[auxien]

20 minutes ago, may be rude said:

 

Quote

why'd trump choose such a useless weirdo for vp? he has horrible positions on things like abortion. just learned jd vance is one of the most anti-ukraine people you can find. 

why'd trump leave the JCPOA, the deal with iran to keep them from pursuing nukes? now blinken says iran has a nuclear breakout time of a week.

 

just picking this one as an example: you're telling me that your post from 2 months ago asking 'why did Trump choose Vance as a VP? he's weird! and anti-Ukraine!' & 'Trump didn't actively pursue Iranian non-nuclear status continuation measures' is somehow evidence for Trump allowing the deaths of thousands or millions of Americans in 2020, which somehow was a plan to enact his coup attempt 6-12 months later?

really step back and think about this man.

Edited Sunday at 09:33 PM by auxien

[may be rude]

27 minutes ago, zazen said:

right theres a lot of trump/russia stuff, a lot of people think he's too cosy with Putin, that was a major talking point from 2016 to 2020 and the reason for his first impeachment, but its still a big leap from there to 'trump caused covid', I think thats why people are a bit baffled by your comments @may be rude

 

i actually don't think it's a big leap at all. i think we are being willfully blind to ignore what is right before our eyes. specifically, it's quite clear he attempted a coup. and, it's just the factual record that he quite astonishingly blocked the fervent advice of expert consensus regarding how to handle a pandemic. and, it's just the factual record that he spent a ton of time before the election campaigning about how the election would be fraudulent because of mail-in ballots. 

why would you not connect those dots? especially with the other context i posted on page 305, such as how he demonstrated actions of seeking to cause a pretext for martial law, which pandemic may also serve the purpose of. maybe that's some more contextual info that helps to recognize the pattern for @auxien , being familiar with how trump was actively, clearly trying to escalate protests while simultaneously trying to use them as a reason to initiate martial law, in may of 2020

i happened to have been anticipating him setting the stage for a coup somehow, so i was uniquely positioned to watch it in his eyes and his movements in real time every day as he subverted expert advice. he was spreading covid while campaigning on mail-ins being fraud. think about that.

10 minutes ago, auxien said:

really step back and think about this man.

read my post. 

Edited Sunday at 09:42 PM by may be rude

[ignatius]

5 minutes ago, EdamAnchorman said:

Even moreso if you've worked for the government.  I worked at a national lab for almost 3 years and after seeing first hand how the federal government actually works, the nuts and bolts of it all, I'm surprised we as a country have our shit together as much as we do.

 

[may be rude]

reminder i edit my posts a bit after posting

the heat helps the edits

[auxien]

5 minutes ago, may be rude said:

8 minutes ago, auxien said:

really step back and think about this man.

read my post. 

i did man....you're sounding more off the deep end by the minute.

 

28 minutes ago, may be rude said:

i hope that helps. i'm not sure why you're coming at me on this sunday afternoon.

it doesn't.

because you're alleging a former president (who is a complete asshole piece of shit, for the record) knowingly planned out months of American citizens deaths, in the thousands or millions, so that he could somehow (no clue how this part works) use this as part of a coup attempt, for an election he didn't know he was going to lose, that really didn't have much if anything to do with the COVID pandemic? and none of it worked? and no one else was in on this because there's no documented evidence of this conspiracy on record, anywhere, so he planned it all alone?

29 minutes ago, may be rude said:

do you think i'm posting this shit for fun and careless with regard to whether i truely believe it's accurate?

maybe, yeah. i kinda hope so.

14 minutes ago, may be rude said:

he was spreading covid while campaigning on mail-ins being fraud. think about that.

nothing to think about, he's an idiot and an asshole and doesn't care about others. we know this. that's a huge leap away from he's actively trying to kill American citizens in order to somehow enact a coup?

[zazen]

13 minutes ago, may be rude said:

why would you not connect those dots?

This is just dumb. Launching an uncontrollable virus from Wuhan in late 2019 was part of his plan to contest the 2020 election? After wuhan fucking anything could have happened, it might have fizzled out, it might have killed millions more than it did. There's no conceivable "plan" that has a step in it that says "realise a zoonotic virus that can target humans" and then has any further steps in it after that. Because we're just talking completely unpredictable shit after that step. Aint nobody joining those dots I'm blocking you

[may be rude]

11 minutes ago, auxien said:

you're alleging a former president (who is a complete asshole piece of shit, for the record) knowingly planned out months of American citizens deaths, in the thousands or millions, so that he could somehow (no clue how this part works) use this as part of a coup attempt

yes. i actually explained it, you're not seeming lucid today. here you go, i'll quote my post from the top of page 305.

  

8 hours ago, may be rude said:

it's perfectly clear that trump deliberately spread covid in order to create the conditions for his planned coup attempt. this began 8 months before the election. his spreading of covid served this purpose in two ways:

• pretext for contesting election - claiming mail-in ballots were fraudulent. this is confirmed by his campaigning more against the legitimacy of the election (with false bullshit about mail-in ballots), before the 2020 election, than he campaigned for people to vote for him. 
• a plague and the resulting economic problems fuel unrest and provide the pretext for exercising emergency powers. this is confirmed by his actions during the george floyd protests, in which he clearly was trying to escalate the clashes between law enforcement and protesters. as he was consistently trying to exacerbate the unrest, he was discussing with his cabinet how to implement martial law to address it. 

all trump had to do was listen to the experts, who were begging him. he cost himself the election by going way out of his way to mess up the covid response.

there's really no alternate explanation. even if you try to explain it away as him being fox-brained, with fox trolling the pandemic, he was still the president, getting the expert advice, and so he knew better than to buy into the foxland fantasies (which he correctly understands as information warfare anyway). he knew and he chose to not handle covid correctly. a million americans died.

 

11 minutes ago, auxien said:

for an election he didn't know he was going to lose, that really didn't have much if anything to do with the COVID pandemic? and none of it worked?

ok i see where i can clarify maybe. my post at the top of page 305 kind of followed this post from page 304:

  

21 hours ago, may be rude said:

On 9/14/2024 at 12:19 PM, Rubin Farr said:

 

Expand  

wait. wait. wait. 

he's doubling down on this after the debate? 

you know back in the biden debate i thought it was odd that a couple times trump decided to start talking about how he didn't call the troops suckers and losers, like out of nowhere, and he said things like he didn't have sex with a porn star. like why are you deciding to talk about that. almost like he was trying to trim points or lose. in other ways, in the biden debate, i suspected him of trimming points, like he saw biden freeze and didn't react. the one time he took a shot at biden's awful performance was pretty mild. kind of like how he fumbled 2020 with covid, and how he seemed to be trying to lose in 2016, when he was coming out with tons of bizarrely offensive gaffes, innovating new ways to come out with offensive gaffes with impressive frequency. in 2016 i think he was trying to lose because he was compromised. in 2020 i wonder if he was trying to trim points because putin wanted him to topple the government and he wanted to do it. all he had to do was do what everyone was telling him to do, in 2020, and he would have handled covid well and he would have very likely won. he denied testing, tracing, and supplies, and he subverted expert public advisory guidance. he was deliberately sewing the seeds of unrest, creating the conditions for his coup attempt, as early as spring 2020. his reactions to the george floyd protests showed him eager to use any chance to exercise emergency powers. he wanted to invoke the insurrection act, bill barr and esper had to stand up to him and say no. lafayette square was tear gased, helicopter buzzed, there were rubber bullets and doj troopers with no insignia, it turns out commanded by bill barr and taken from the prison system, and trump was messaging that cops should exercise brutality, literally, repeatedly, like he was trying to escalate the frontlines of civil unrest during those protests. 

he devoured the bait pellets kamala fed him to trigger him.  

now he's doubling down on cats and dogs. does he want to lose? is he trimming points? does bannon's ai indicate that the dog narrative will win him the voters he needs? is trump just lamer since he disgraced himself with a coup? 

in that post i discuss how trump would have won 2020 if he had handled covid well. i use qualifying language because i'm careful about reaching conclusions but that's where i started the topic of how i notice the theory of the covid response being an anticipation of a coup may appear consistent with the idea that trump is compromised by putin. it would explain his behaviors that steered toward nearly breaking american democracy. 

i also clarified the level of confidence in this part of a post to ignatius on page 305

  

5 hours ago, may be rude said:

5 hours ago, ignatius said:

also, it seems like your talking about multiple things here.. mixing covid response, election results denial, jan6th, classified documents case etc...

thanks for letting me clarify. it does all tie together, if you assume the conclusion that trump coordinated with putin for the purpose of toppling the us government (difficult to prove but concerningly it is possible to make a strong argument). i was refering to this from my post on the previous page:

 

Edited Sunday at 09:59 PM by may be rude

[Alcofribas]

my posts are my proof

[may be rude]

cool strawman bro

[auxien]

2 minutes ago, may be rude said:

it's perfectly clear that trump deliberately spread covid in order to create the conditions for his planned coup attempt. this began 8 months before the election. his spreading of covid served this purpose in two ways:

• pretext for contesting election - claiming mail-in ballots were fraudulent. this is confirmed by his campaigning more against the legitimacy of the election (with false bullshit about mail-in ballots), before the 2020 election, than he campaigned for people to vote for him. 
• a plague and the resulting economic problems fuel unrest and provide the pretext for exercising emergency powers. this is confirmed by his actions during the george floyd protests, in which he clearly was trying to escalate the clashes between law enforcement and protesters. as he was consistently trying to exacerbate the unrest, he was discussing with his cabinet how to implement martial law to address it. 

so you're saying Trump knowingly, purposefully, willingly killed thousands or millions of Americans by letting COVID spread beyond what it would've anyway (even though most of the country went into various rounds of lockdowns to varying degrees for weeks or months, which Trump largely supported publicly, at least at times) so that months later the population would be lessened*, and mail-in ballots would be more widely used/acceptable, and then if he lost the election, he could claim fraud because of the mail-in ballots and incite a coup? and somehow the resulting economic problems felt by the US (and the vast majority of the world, ofc) would have him exercising emergency powers that would help him enact widespread unrest, martial law, etc. (remember, this didn't happen to any great degree, the cases where it happened were small temporary pockets) which would somehow help with the coup thing?

and of course none of this really happened to an extent that worked for him, so like....he was just bad at it?

or are you claiming he started COVID or someshit?

*keep in mind, the majority of deaths were of older persons/COVID conspiracy nuts/soon-to-be antivaxxers, who were more likely to be supporters of his...you're saying he purposefully killed a portion of the population that would be a key voting demographic

 

18 minutes ago, may be rude said:

all trump had to do was listen to the experts, who were begging him. he cost himself the election by going way out of his way to mess up the covid response.

there's really no alternate explanation. even if you try to explain it away as him being fox-brained, with fox trolling the pandemic, he was still the president, getting the expert advice, and so he knew better than to buy into the foxland fantasies (which he correctly understands as information warfare anyway). he knew and he chose to not handle covid correctly. a million americans died.

i think i'm seeing where you're getting shit twisted in your head...but the explanation is far simpler. he's always traveling towards something that's good for him/his friends. that's the motivating factor, and he doesn't look ahead that far ahead, he's too stupid.

he's not planning mass murders...i remember a time or two him seeming genuinely touched that many Americans were dying under his watch...but by and large did he care about them? no, probably not...but he also knew that it was not a good political move to let thousands or millions of your constituency die if he could help it. that's why he moved towards solutions eventually, even if it took far more prodding than it should've.

to think that even as he was enacting and pushing for American companies to create the vaccines, he was also secretly hoping more Americans still kept dying? it's just silly. Trump's a fucker, but it wasn't helping him. the conspiracy Trump crafted, according to you and no one else, wouldn't have worked, didn't work as we can see....and, seriously, Trump's not smart enough to think that far ahead.

[perunamuusi]

Trump did 7/11

[ignatius]

6 minutes ago, perunamuusi said:

Trump did 7/11

Johnny Harris video incoming! 

Hasan reaction video incoming!!!

and of course. candy bars

 

[toaoaoad]

I'm kinda sad for you guys that this is how you're spending your Sunday afternoon.

At the same time you've given me interesting reading material between errands so thanks lol

But yeah go outside or something!

[auxien]

2 minutes ago, toaoaoad said:

I'm kinda sad for you guys that this is how you're spending your Sunday afternoon.

At the same time you've given me interesting reading material between errands so thanks lol

But yeah go outside or something!

i've been listening to music and watching videos too. going outside would be a good idea tho yr right

28 minutes ago, ignatius said:

Johnny Harris video incoming! 

and of course. candy bars

 

this is it basically yeah...

[cern]

Trump was in a position were everyone was laughing AT him because of the stupid eating cat thing and Taylor Swift.
Now everyone loves him again because some weird dude wanted him dead. 

US fails again 

[decibal cooper]

[Hi Guys]

48 minutes ago, cern said:

Trump was in a position were everyone was laughing AT him because of the stupid eating cat thing and Taylor Swift.
Now everyone loves him again because some weird dude wanted him dead. 

US fails again 

Nobody loves him again.

[Hail Sagan]

1 hour ago, toaoaoad said:

I'm kinda sad for you guys that this is how you're spending your Sunday afternoon.

At the same time you've given me interesting reading material between errands so thanks lol

But yeah go outside or something!

I recently got into disc golfing and just did 32 baskets (holes) Today at what is apparently a top 3 course in the world. Really fun, actually gets in the woods unlike regular golf and was surprisingly affordable ($8 for a day pass). But yeah man, you’re right. Paying more and more attention to politics will put you into an unhealthy mindset. Had I been home earlier and caught wind of what happened on WATMM I probably would’ve gone spelunking back into the darkness.

Regardless of what side of the political spectrum you’re on it devolves into the Indignation Olympics real fucking quick. Just endless cortisol spikes, dog piling or getting dogpiled on, horribly biased articles from both sides claiming to be as objective as possible and every once in a while somebody throws you a bone in the form of a meme that warrants a chuckle but for the most part it’s pretty cancerous. Fixating on a bunch a shit that’s really outside of your control anyways when there’s a ton of other shit within our control that we actually could be working on to improve our standing in life. I keep crawling back for another from the crack pipe of online political discourse though. 

[ignatius]

1 hour ago, toaoaoad said:

I'm kinda sad for you guys that this is how you're spending your Sunday afternoon.

At the same time you've given me interesting reading material between errands so thanks lol

But yeah go outside or something!

hit my 75 mile cycling goal for the week. went on additional ride this morning.. might go to local park to listen to people play modulars at "modular on the spot". fckn tired though. 

[Rubin Farr]

Why are these people such terrible shots?