2020 US Election

[dingformung]

1 hour ago, thumbass said:

I understand that you'd rather see someone who is going to vote for someone you are not a fan of stay home instead but it's not how it works

Not voting is a possible decision in a democratic process. I hope Trump voters will go that way

[thumbass]

1 hour ago, darreichungsform said:

Not voting is a possible decision in a democratic process. I hope Trump voters will go that way

it is a possible decision and I understand you hope Trump voters will go that way. But they won't and he will win. Biden nor Sanders stand a chance against him.

[Candiru]

22 minutes ago, thumbass said:

it is a possible decision and I understand you hope Trump voters will go that way. But they won't and he will win. Biden nor Sanders stand a chance against him.

What do you like about him?

[thumbass]

14 minutes ago, Candiru said:

What do you like about him?

It's more about what I dislike about the Democratic candidates and left wing politics

[Candiru]

51 minutes ago, thumbass said:

It's more about what I dislike about the Democratic candidates and left wing politics

Idiots on the internet aren’t as bad as idiots running the country, though, and what you perceive of left wing politics ceases to exist once you log off. 

Most voters at this point are just rational people who aren’t SJWs and realize Trump is a retard that shouldn’t be behind the wheel.

[thumbass]

1 hour ago, Candiru said:

Idiots on the internet aren’t as bad as idiots running the country, though, and what you perceive of left wing politics ceases to exist once you log off. 

Most voters at this point are just rational people who aren’t SJWs and realize Trump is a retard that shouldn’t be behind the wheel.

I'm not just talking about the sjw crazies. I know there are a lot of normal left wing people and I respect them. I just don't find myself in agreement with left wing ideas and policies.

[YangYing]

6 minutes ago, thumbass said:

1 hour ago, Candiru said:

Idiots on the internet aren’t as bad as idiots running the country, though, and what you perceive of left wing politics ceases to exist once you log off. 

Most voters at this point are just rational people who aren’t SJWs and realize Trump is a retard that shouldn’t be behind the wheel.

I'm not just talking about the sjw crazies. I know there are a lot of normal left wing people and I respect them. I just don't find myself in agreement with left wing ideas and policies.

u do live in Europe right? the right and left are very different beasts over here and in the US...

[thumbass]

33 minutes ago, MIXL2 said:

u do live in Europe right? the right and left are very different beasts over here and in the US...

I know my friend, but I follow American politics closely.

[Candiru]

3 minutes ago, thumbass said:

I know my friend, but I follow American politics closely.

What are you afraid of the Democratic Party, in the USA doing? 

[goDel]

As a fellow Dutchie, thumbass' posts read like someone who's more into Thierry Baudet. He's a more recent rightwing populist since Geert Wilders, the classic rightwing populist in the Netherlands, lost a bit of momentum in recent years. Some of you might know Geert from being the anti-muslim guy from the Netherlands with the painted blond hair.

Thierry on the other hand is against anything EU, loves the Netherlands as it used to be 40 years ago, and hates all the climate change stuff. He's read some philosophy books (ok, he studied philosophy) and is a bit of a snob about it. Sometimes he uses difficult words, like "boreal", which people seem to interpret as anti-immigrant and possibly supports some rightwing extremist ideals. Which Thierry denies, of course. Kinda like Trump, but not as dumb. Although Trump has a more explicit history with racism. 

It's typical populism in the Netherlands, btw. It's a combination of conservatism and nationalism (neither right nor left, I'd argue). Quite similar to what Trump is trying to do in the US, actually. I sometimes get the impression Thierry has got a hotline with, whatshisname, Steve Bannon.

Thumbass, I apologise if wrong.

Edited March 7, 2020 by goDel

[may be rude]

well us living in the US have to deal with this shit

[dingformung]

1 hour ago, thumbass said:

I'm not just talking about the sjw crazies. I know there are a lot of normal left wing people and I respect them. I just don't find myself in agreement with left wing ideas and policies.

Okay, but right now the alternative is a president who does things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_administration_family_separation_policy

Regardless your political orientation, this should make you want to chose any candidate over Trump.

[auxien]

13 minutes ago, very honest said:

well us living in the US have to deal with this shit

for real! 

[may be rude]

19 hours ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:

anyone thinking biden can win, i'm coming back here with a big 'i told ya so' when trump crushes him.

how would you support the conclusion that trump would win? is there data you would point to?

 

there are good reasons to be optimistic about biden.

VA is a swing state and his turnout there was huge. obama has very high approval ratings and biden would be seen to carry the policy lineage. 

here's the RCP list of recent polls for biden vs trump. biden leads in 7 out of 8 polls.

trump has high unfavorables

 

and when it comes to biden vs sanders, this tweet visualizes the main point pretty well

 

 

 

a recent poll in swing state florida shows biden having a ridiculous 49 point lead over sanders

amy will help in swing state minnesota

and there is data on african american support lacking for bernie, which is said to be important

Edited March 7, 2020 by very honest

[goDel]

The beautiful thing about Biden going up against Trump, is that Trump will have to decide on how he deals with his Ukraine nonsense. Any oppo research he wants to throw against Biden will immediately bring attention to Trump being impeached for it.

[thumbass]

4 hours ago, goDel said:

As a fellow Dutchie, thumbass' posts read like someone who's more into Thierry Baudet. He's a more recent rightwing populist since Geert Wilders, the classic rightwing populist in the Netherlands, lost a bit of momentum in recent years. Some of you might know Geert from being the anti-muslim guy from the Netherlands with the painted blond hair.

Thierry on the other hand is against anything EU, loves the Netherlands as it used to be 40 years ago, and hates all the climate change stuff. He's read some philosophy books (ok, he studied philosophy) and is a bit of a snob about it. Sometimes he uses difficult words, like "boreal", which people seem to interpret as anti-immigrant and possibly supports some rightwing extremist ideals. Which Thierry denies, of course. Kinda like Trump, but not as dumb. Although Trump has a more explicit history with racism. 

It's typical populism in the Netherlands, btw. It's a combination of conservatism and nationalism (neither right nor left, I'd argue). Quite similar to what Trump is trying to do in the US, actually. I sometimes get the impression Thierry has got a hotline with, whatshisname, Steve Bannon.

Thumbass, I apologise if wrong.

You're not wrong and I see no reason to lie about it

I prefer Hiddema over Baudet though

[goDel]

Fair. And I'd immediately like to add that I think Hiddema actually has something useful to add to the political discourse in the Netherlands. His knowledge and experience in law (he's a high profile lawyer in the netherlands) allows him to give some valuable critique and constructive proposals. Baudet however, as far as I'm concerned, is mostly hollow prose with some occasionally valuable critique here and there. He seems mostly interested in looking smarter than the rest, without actually adding anything substantive. He's an intellectual Trump, if you will.

[Brisbot]

 

[dingformung]

Maybe that sounds cynical but Biden losing against Trump might actually on long term benefit the progressive wing of the Democratic Party & the progressive movement in general.

Edited March 8, 2020 by darreichungsform

[ignatius]

19 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

Maybe that sounds cynical but Biden losing against Trump might actually on long term benefit the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

i think either way the progressives will benefit. can't really fathom what could come up in another 4 years of trump. lingering corona virus that leads to a real economic downturn, some international free for all that leads to war,  quarantine camps on the border,  cats and dogs sleeping together.. blah blah blah... 

whereas a Biden administration might what? who knows.. more dumb biden shit. disastrous well intentioned policies, floundering about trying to please the olds at the expense of the future. half  measures all over the place to deal w/climate change leading to no real changes.. just some kind place holder.

and on and on.. progressives might even benefit more from a biden administration once people see how the center will not fix anything for future generations and just be more bullshit leading to more corporatocracy type shit. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by ignatius

[goDel]

What makes you think that people who aren't already "progressive" move over to being more progressive? I'm really surprised by all these scenarios you speculate about. They don't look credible at all. I could be wrong, obviously. I think it's equally likely people move more right, for instance. Either way, without a president who can bring left and right closer together, in all likelihood, things will get more polarized. And US politics will get in an even worse stalemate. I mean, what kind of policies will ever get through congress? M4all? A green deal? You think congress will move towards the progressive side as well? Without a successful Biden presidency , it's going to move to the right. Or, if you consider Obama successful, it will move to the right anyways. (See 2010)

I don't know, but the only scenario where progressives benefit, oddly enough, is one with Trump in the white house. But that argument isn't particularly strong either, given that Sanders current support is below 2016 in absolute numbers. It all sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Again, I could be wrong. But I haven't seen strong arguments either way. This all seems like attempts of predicting the economy. Good luck with that. 

[dingformung]

It's not about bringing the right and the left together anymore, it's about the left getting into power and realizing projects that have been due for too long. If Biden loses against Trump it shows that a centrist is the worse choice to achieve that.

[ignatius]

20 minutes ago, goDel said:

What makes you think that people who aren't already "progressive" move over to being more progressive? I'm really surprised by all these scenarios you speculate about. They don't look credible at all. I could be wrong, obviously. I think it's equally likely people move more right, for instance. Either way, without a president who can bring left and right closer together, in all likelihood, things will get more polarized. And US politics will get in an even worse stalemate. I mean, what kind of policies will ever get through congress? M4all? A green deal? You think congress will move towards the progressive side as well? Without a successful Biden presidency , it's going to move to the right. Or, if you consider Obama successful, it will move to the right anyways. (See 2010)

I don't know, but the only scenario where progressives benefit, oddly enough, is one with Trump in the white house. But that argument isn't particularly strong either, given that Sanders current support is below 2016 in absolute numbers. It all sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Again, I could be wrong. But I haven't seen strong arguments either way. This all seems like attempts of predicting the economy. Good luck with that. 

oh i agree.. just speculation but I'm not thinking a lot of people will truly become more progressive but they may not fall for the same line of shit next go around.. though.. there's no reason to think they won't. i mean.. seems like no matter what history repeats itself and no  one learns anything.. but it's not impossible that people will nudge a bit more left. shrug. 

and other could go a bit more to the right.. USA could just get even more divided. 

for the left to get anything done there needs to be a clear win one something important.. like citizens united gets the axe or progressive tax plan.. something like that. 

i don't know. i'm just hear with a cold being achey and annoying on the internet 

[ignatius]

18 minutes ago, darreichungsform said:

It's not about bringing the right and the left together anymore, it's about the left getting into power and realizing projects that have been due for too long. If Biden loses against Trump it shows that a centrist is the worse choice to achieve that.

it's always been about seizing power. in the best of times or worst of times it's a power struggle. 

in the next 20  years the world is going to start getting pretty uncomfortable for a lot more people for a myriad of reasons.by  2050  miami beach is supposed to have 150-200 days a year of sunny day  floods.  shit hitting the fan all over. it's gonna be awesome. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by ignatius

[goDel]

I don't like the history repeating itself narrative at all. Look at the last two presidents. First black president ever in US. And the ACA after years of nothing and talking about changing the healthcare system. Took 4 decades to get there. Expansion of medicare/medicaid included. If no one learns anything, it's because they're already putting the ACA in the trashcan to move towards M4all. Really? 

And then Trump happens. Is that history repeating? I beg to differ. 

There seems to be one constant though. People behaving like entitled bitches in a democracy don't want to learn. They tend to keep on bitching until they get what they want. And a couple months later, theyre bitching because stuff changed, and they want the old back. Perhaps people are too stupid for politics.