depression

[Guest M360]

If it were me, pills would be a last resort. You dont want to be misdiagnosed.

[Berk]

From what I hear/read: stay the fuck away from conventional commercial SSRIs.

 

Exercise, eat well, make sure you don't get bored (very important - for me at least)

 

I hate the idea of taking pills that take 4 weeks before any possible effect occurs, an effect that could be placebo. And I hate the thought of side effects. Use the drugs your own body can provide you with by exercising etc.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Berk

[Hugh Mughnus]

Depression sucks

[usagi]

stay the fuck away from conventional commercial SSRIs.

[Guest fiznuthian]

From what I hear/read: stay the fuck away from conventional commercial SSRIs.

 

Exercise, eat well, make sure you don't get bored (very important - for me at least)

 

I hate the idea of taking pills that take 4 weeks before any possible effect occurs, an effect that could be placebo. And I hate the thought of side effects. Use the drugs your own body can provide you with by exercising etc.

 

Yeah, that's probably wise advice. I already eat extremely well and I stay fairly active but I am having physical problems that feel like my body is falling apart. It reaks of auto-immune disease or fibromyalgia-esque something. They're prescribing Paxil to address pain, not depression/anxiety.

 

Fuck it.. not buying them yet.

Depression sucks

 

For real man.. Stephen I hope you're hanging in there.

[Guest EleminoP]

I was on Paxil for awhile. Would not recommend it. Zombie w/ low libido and metallic tastes in the mouth. Withdrawal was quite difficult. Glad I didn't stay on it any longer.

Edited April 1, 2014 by EleminoP

[mentalextension]

I've been going through some quite severe depression lately, combined with social anxiety, and the feeling that everything is fake, not the best emotional cocktail.

 

But, I know everything is gonna get better sooner or later, everything in life is somewhat cyclic, and this thread has motivated me loads, It's good to know I'm not the only one.

 

Think I'm gonna start jogging and eating fruit & all that shizzle now, since you guys ''reviews'' about it seem rather uplifting!

 

Thanks guise, keep on fighting the good fight!

[Guest fiznuthian]

I was on Paxil for awhile. Would not recommend it. Zombie w/ low libido and metallic tastes in the mouth. Withdrawal was quite difficult. Glad I didn't stay on it any longer.

Sounds like shit.. Some people report wild sociable feelings on it, like some massive weight has been lifted and suddenly they are their true self.. Can't but think: mania?

 

I've been going through some quite severe depression lately, combined with social anxiety, and the feeling that everything is fake, not the best emotional cocktail.

 

But, I know everything is gonna get better sooner or later, everything in life is somewhat cyclic, and this thread has motivated me loads, It's good to know I'm not the only one.

 

Think I'm gonna start jogging and eating fruit & all that shizzle now, since you guys ''reviews'' about it seem rather uplifting!

 

Thanks guise, keep on fighting the good fight!

 

Without a doubt the consensus. Try your best to eat a diet of real food, and not processed junk. Get outside for a while and move around. Definitely helps a lot!

[usagi]

Think I'm gonna start jogging

 

couch-to-5k, I can't recommend it enough. I'm currently in week 5. it's been very helpful. when shit is down, I have something to focus on and look forward to, and I feel great after a run and a shower. try it!

[logboy]

From what I hear/read: stay the fuck away from conventional commercial SSRIs.

I'd like to know what your take is on SSRIs then. in the UK, they seem to be what typically gets prescribed, and the NHS has a mechanism that can't prescribe what's regarded as harmful, and constantly monitors what patients experiences are with using medications.

 

I've been using a few typos of SSRIs for more than a decade. I notice their benefit if I run out more than when I manage yo remember to take them. always a low dosage, mind you. side effects vary, but nothing obviously too dramatic from my perspective, and don't occur often, unless there's effects I don't know of that are considered to exist but aren't necessarily publicly shared much.

 

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/ssri-antidepressants

Edited April 1, 2014 by logboy

[Berk]

I won't lie, personal experience with 'real' ssris is zero. I've tried st johns wort, maybe it helped somewhat but i could never be sure. Taking no ADs at the moment. Only taking these fish oil capsules that make me feel a bit more vital, then again could be placebo.

 

I just read a lot of negative things about ssris, about shrinks and the industry making a lot ofmoney out of depressed people etc. Of course it isn't black/white like that but still you have to keep it in mind

[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

 

someone posted in the anxiety thread a study about how using weed a lot as a teen can lead to massive anxiety in one's late 20s and welp, hello late 20s, hello anxiety.

yeah i got this, thought of it a bit like "the wall" in running and just smoked through it

 

 

lol

[Adieu]

You really should be exhausting all other avenues before you start pumping anti-depressants into your body. The happiness in the mind is an extension of the well-being of your body. Most of the time if you properly care for yourself your mind will react appropriately.

 

There are lots of natural ways to increase your serotonin levels as well. 5htp/L-tryptophan is a good place to start.

[mcbpete]

5htp/L-tryptophan is a good place to start.

[logboy]

You really should be exhausting all other avenues before you start pumping anti-depressants into your body. The happiness in the mind is an extension of the well-being of your body. Most of the time if you properly care for yourself your mind will react appropriately.

 

There are lots of natural ways to increase your serotonin levels as well. 5htp/L-tryptophan is a good place to start.

 

im guessing the health systems across the globe, and unavoidably varying experience as a result of them, make for a series of perceptions about not only what depression is, but how best to deal with it. not that it's the most important variable, because i'd say that we're all individuals and that causes the greater (more complicated) variation in what we need to do. i suspect that, if you seek professional help, whether you've to pay for your medication at source (or not) you'll likely be talking about medication. there are alternatives, and expensive services paid for by the NHS also turn to them - acupuncture, and (more controversially, for me) mindfulness; i'd have accepted that as a concept if i was told it was a relaxation / breathing technique, but the book i was told to read was new age cobblers, and tantamount to prescribing a weekly visit to church, as it was all faith and no evidence.

 

my experience with SSRI's is that i'd dealt with depression for about 15 years before i sought medical help, largely due to it having been through teenage / young adult years - already difficult, and pretty obviously not necessarily elegantly coped with for anyone. wasn't until i had been around a while and started to feel not-so-young any more that i thought medical help would be worth a try. in all honesty, since you get a ten minute appointment, i'd say that the complicated and individual nature is a far bigger issue when it comes to a sense of progress and security, and it feels like both parties settle for a management of the illness over a certainty it can be improved upon and a life easily made more significantly functional. at least, it looks like a dropping-out of a fight against health in the traditional sense of medical treatment as would be applied to something there's longer-term proof of reversing, altering, healing. i'd say that's the main reason it remains widely dismissed within the wider population, as though people tie themselves up because it can appear to provide an opportunity to settle for less, when it's more likely just an alternative perspective on assessing someone as struggling against a tide they'll never see reversed.

Edited April 1, 2014 by logboy

[gmanyo]

 

stay the fuck away from conventional commercial SSRIs.

 

This is not terrible advice. I think that conventional SSRIs can help, but one should be very wary of them. I was on cymbalta for awhile and as soon as I got a better psych he took me off of it. When I first went on it I was in a hospital within 3 days; correlation doesn't mean causation of course but considering that I'm bipolar it was probably not a good idea to put me on this in the first place.

[Guest A/D]

I can't help but think mental health is the great untreated frontier of human evolution right now. So many people feel like shit all the time and pretend they don't. Everyone could think more clearly, or benefit from having their terrible self-image problems alleviated.

 

I definitely feel better than I did five years ago, and that's due to a multitude of things - exercise, meditation, therapy, love, weed, and self-exploration. I still have my episodes though. It's a lot easier when I remember that it's part of a pattern and not my real response to the world around me.

 

I wish meditation and emotional exploration were taught at an earlier age. There could be so much more love in the world.

[goDel]

I may have mentioned it elsewhere in the thread and this will be a massive, citationless generalization but: a very well done meta-analysis of thousands of antidepressant studies and outcomes found that only about 24% of the variance in outcomes can be attributed to the medicine itself. In other words, 76% of you coming out of the darkness is the scientific equivalent of "other". SSRIs are fraught with side effects and the true challenge comes from trying withdraw from them safely. No one wants you to do that, you will get scant support from your prescriber on how to do it and can generally have a shit time of it if you taper too quickly. With that said, keep your eyes as open as possible and use whatever tool will help you feel better. Keep that 24% figure in mind though. Understand that, at best, an SSRI is like a step stool to the ladder of depression. You have a lot of climbing to do once the stool gets you to the first rung and it can't really help you much further than that.

 

And that was statistical variance, btw. The difference in clinical outcome was different (of a lesser order). (people often forget the difference between statistical significance and clinical significance). The clinical difference between placebos with side-effects and antidepressants was clinically insignificant. The (statistical) 24% difference was found in the comparison with placebos without side effects. The statistical difference evaporated when compared with placebos with the same side-effects. Apparently, the belief that something is working is very important.

 

Also note the amount of psychopharmaceutical drugs which big pharma has in the pipeline: ZERO. Despite the huge sums of money involved, there's nothing of any possible value. Reason is also due to that well researched meta-analysis. One of the outcomes of that meta-analysis was the difference between comparing antidepressants with placebo's without side-effects and with side effects. So, from that meta-analysis on, companies have to prove their medicines work better than placebos with similar side-effects. No luck thus far.

 

Take from this what you want, btw. If those pills help you, by all means, keep on using them etc. I'm not giving medical advice here.

[Berk]

I forgot that meditation also helps. Thank A/D. Also, good literature, like Turgenev, also helps. Reading books eases that self analytical pain in the ass a bit I feel

[gmanyo]

I know someone whose brother just committed suicide. He wasn't my closest friend or anything and I'd never met his brother, but that's I think the third suicide which I have been just a one friend away from in the past year. I don't mean to be an old man, but I do believe that our fast paced and busy modern society has something to do with it, especially the anxiety disorders.

[Guest fiznuthian]

 

I may have mentioned it elsewhere in the thread and this will be a massive, citationless generalization but: a very well done meta-analysis of thousands of antidepressant studies and outcomes found that only about 24% of the variance in outcomes can be attributed to the medicine itself. In other words, 76% of you coming out of the darkness is the scientific equivalent of "other". SSRIs are fraught with side effects and the true challenge comes from trying withdraw from them safely. No one wants you to do that, you will get scant support from your prescriber on how to do it and can generally have a shit time of it if you taper too quickly. With that said, keep your eyes as open as possible and use whatever tool will help you feel better. Keep that 24% figure in mind though. Understand that, at best, an SSRI is like a step stool to the ladder of depression. You have a lot of climbing to do once the stool gets you to the first rung and it can't really help you much further than that.

 

And that was statistical variance, btw. The difference in clinical outcome was different (of a lesser order). (people often forget the difference between statistical significance and clinical significance). The clinical difference between placebos with side-effects and antidepressants was clinically insignificant. The (statistical) 24% difference was found in the comparison with placebos without side effects. The statistical difference evaporated when compared with placebos with the same side-effects. Apparently, the belief that something is working is very important.

 

Also note the amount of psychopharmaceutical drugs which big pharma has in the pipeline: ZERO. Despite the huge sums of money involved, there's nothing of any possible value. Reason is also due to that well researched meta-analysis. One of the outcomes of that meta-analysis was the difference between comparing antidepressants with placebo's without side-effects and with side effects. So, from that meta-analysis on, companies have to prove their medicines work better than placebos with similar side-effects. No luck thus far.

 

Take from this what you want, btw. If those pills help you, by all means, keep on using them etc. I'm not giving medical advice here.

 

 

Yeah, and i'll add that it is quite shocking to search for published research papers that discuss anti-depressant efficacy. There's more than a handful out there, and many of them speak strongly against the marketing used by pharmaceutical companies. At worst, the serotonin deficiency hypothesis is an outright lie or a highly misleading representation of serotonin's function and role in the nervous system.

 

That said, serotonin seems to serve a wide variety of roles in the brain. Some 90% of serotonin is found in the gut, not the brain. That these drugs are doing absolutely nothing might not be so true. The bigger issue is we really don't know what.

[Berk]

I don't mean to be an old man, but I do believe that our fast paced and busy modern society has something to do with it, especially the anxiety disorders.

Oh definitely.

[Guest transmisiones ferox]

And don't forget to look at the night sky sometimes

[beerwolf]

I get depressed if a) I drink too much and don't exercise, b) get on the coke

 

combine a+b.... I'm in deep trouble. Gladly, after being through some low episodes I control these. Fundamentally I make sure my beer intake is controlled as when this spirals, everything else snowballs. Too much alcohol has a bad effect on my personality but in wise measures I really enjoy it.

 

I can't imagine how shit it must be to naturally suffer from depression. I think exercise is really important, and exercise in fresh air...

Edited April 1, 2014 by beerwolf

[kakapo]

Depression is as much a political illness as a mental one.