School Shooting in Connecticut

[Guest Iain C]

Ha ha, "prayers". What a deluded fool. All that lad needs is the internet.

[goDel]

How to reduce the toll from US gun violence

• 16:30 20 December 2012 by Peter Aldhous
• For similar stories, visit the Comment and Analysis and The Human Brain Topic Guides

It is tragic that it took the deaths of 20 children, but it seems that the horrific massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown has finally shifted the debate about guns and violence in the US.

In focusing on Newtown, Connecticut, we mustn't lose sight of the full extent of this problem, on which mass shootings barely register as a statistical blip. The figures are staggering: in 2010, there were 11,078 homicides and 19,392 suicides committed using firearms in the US.

International comparisons show that the US is an outlier among wealthy nations for its high rates of gun ownership and gun violence, and that there is a correlation between gun availability and gun homicide across nations (Journal of Trauma, vol 49, p 985).

Such research suggests that restrictions on the availability of guns in the US could bring down the death toll. But correlation does not prove causation, and there are many reasons why homicide rates may vary from country to country. Unfortunately, good data at the individual level on gun ownership in the US – who has them and how that relates to violence – is seriously lacking, in large part because the National Rifle Association has used its political influence to curtail research.

...

Evidence for the effectiveness of such gun laws is less clear, and hard to assess – these are not controlled experiments and typically several measures are introduced at once, making it hard to tease apart their effects.

Nevertheless, experience in California, which prohibited private gun sales without background checks in 1991, suggests that this may be a useful step.

A new study of guns recovered by law enforcement conducted for the National Institute of Justice indicates that they move into criminal hands more slowly in California than in states with unfettered private sales. "Our 'time-to-crime' is longer," says Garen Wintemute of the University of California, Davis, one of the report's authors.

As for mass shootings, it stands to reason that removing assault rifles and high-capacity clips from sale should limit the death toll from individual incidents. Australia's experience is encouraging: after 13 mass shootings in 18 years, a ban on semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns was introduced in 1996. It was associated with a reduction in overall gun homicide deaths – and there has not been a shooting involving five or more deaths since (Injury Prevention, doi.org/ff7gm4).

In the US, knee-jerk positions for or against gun control have until now won out over careful consideration of the evidence. In memory of the children who died at Newtown, it is time to put these divisions aside and begin a sensible, meaningful discussion about how to solve a terrible and complex problem.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23026-data-show-how-us-gun-control-will-cut-shooting-deaths.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news

[Nebraska]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

[azatoth]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

[SR4]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

 

 

we have talked about it. no one will listen.

 

they aren't american. they aren't european. for the ignorant, they are cash and carry identical to "the enemy" overseas.

[gmanyo]

I'm guessing several 8-16 year olds die in sex trafficking every day. So yeah, it's a bit strange that people focus on this, but there is also the idea of this being at home and a breach of security, and also something that we can move to take action on. Also, one tragedy doesn't diminish another; I don't think responding in this way to this particular tragedy is bad, just the fact that we ignore the other ones. I respect people like my mother, who spends a significant amount of her time raising awareness for people without water, sex trafficking, poverty, etc. but then also feels really bad about a school shooting like this.

[sweepstakes]

one tragedy doesn't diminish another; I don't think responding in this way to this particular tragedy is bad, just the fact that we ignore the other ones.

[Blir]

I know it's really edgy to bring up other people dying in other parts of the world, but this is current news that's sparked off a wider debate. You can't act surprised that people are talking about it.

 

Would you prefer that after the first post somebody wrote "Fuck those kids! There are people dying everywhere!"

 

Everyone is always dying everywhere. People want America to stay out of other peoples business, but as soon as someone talks about a tragedy at home they ask why we aren't talking about tragedies elsewhere.

 

I think there's a case to be made for sorting out your problems at home before getting involved in other peoples.

[SR4]

I know it's really edgy to bring up other people dying in other parts of the world, but this is current news that's sparked off a wider debate. You can't act surprised that people are talking about it.

 

Would you prefer that after the first post somebody wrote "Fuck those kids! There are people dying everywhere!"

 

Everyone is always dying everywhere. People want America to stay out of other peoples business, but as soon as someone talks about a tragedy at home they ask why we aren't talking about tragedies elsewhere.

 

I think there's a case to be made for sorting out your problems at home before getting involved in other peoples.

 

 

exactly. im still waiting for a flood of threads acknowledging these other horrible conflicts across the world. instead it seems people wait for a big deal to be made over a domestic tragedy to gleefully stroll through and denounce selective public recognition in the most uncanny of ironies.

[Guest Mirezzi]

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/

 

Party Identity in a Gun Cabinet

An American child grows up in a married household in the suburbs. What are the chances that his family keeps a gun in their home?

The probability is considerably higher than residents of New York and other big cities might expect: about 40 percent of married households reported having a gun in their home, according to the exit poll conducted during the 2008 presidential election.

But the odds vary significantly based on the political identity of the child’s parents. If they identify as Democratic voters, the chances are only about one in four, or 25 percent, that they have a gun in their home. But the chances are more than twice that, almost 60 percent, if they are Republicans.

Whether someone owns a gun is a more powerful predictor of a person’s political party than her gender, whether she identifies as gay or lesbian, whether she is Hispanic, whether she lives in the South or a number of other demographic characteristics.

It will come as no surprise to those with a passing interest in American politics that Republicans are more likely to own guns than Democrats. But the differences have become much more stark in recent years, with gun ownership having become one of the clearest examples of the partisan polarization in the country over the last two decades.

In 1973, about 55 percent of Republicans reported having a gun in their household against 45 percent of Democrats, according to the General Social Survey, a biennial poll of American adults.

Gun ownership has declined over the past 40 years — but almost all of the decrease has come from Democrats. By 2010, according to the General Social Survey, the gun ownership rate among adults that identified as Democrats had fallen to 22 percent. It remained at about 50 percent among Republican adults.

 

Of course, the bottom line is not surprising. Republicans are fearful, isolationist, and mentally ill. On the whole, they're pro-life until birth, then very much pro-death.

Also not surprising except to those immune to science: "Gun ownership rates are inversely correlated with educational attainment."

[Guest Mirezzi]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

It's very difficult to frame geopolitical discussions like Drone strikes within the context of a domestic issue like gun crime.

 

Of course, the U.S. is unconscionable in this arena, and here comes Kathryn Bigelow with another movie glamorizing the despicable amoral actions of the U.S. armed forces with her latest movie.

[joshuatxuk]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

It's very difficult to frame geopolitical discussions like Drone strikes within the context of a domestic issue like gun crime.

 

Of course, the U.S. is unconscionable in this arena, and here comes Kathryn Bigelow with another movie glamorizing the despicable amoral actions of the U.S. armed forces with her latest movie.

 

Actually I think that film bucks the usual Hollywood rah-rah go American military trend. Prominent senators are bashing it for even implying that we used torture to hunt down Osama. The reviews I've read mention that the actual raid scene is calculated, realistic, and completely devoid of glamour or excitement. I haven't seen it, but it sounds more like Jarhead or Full Metal Jacket - a war movie that's portrays history and offers no moral or political sentiments one way or the other.

 

Still, you have a point. There was a fucking made-for-TV agit-prop films for pawns like Jessica Lynch just months after that combat incident - the same battle where a female Native American soldier actually fought and died with hardly the fanfare and attention.

[Guest Mirezzi]

Then there's Homeland, which by all accounts is a certifiable fantasy for neoconservative fluffers.

[awepittance]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

It's very difficult to frame geopolitical discussions like Drone strikes within the context of a domestic issue like gun crime.

 

Of course, the U.S. is unconscionable in this arena, and here comes Kathryn Bigelow with another movie glamorizing the despicable amoral actions of the U.S. armed forces with her latest movie.

 

Actually I think that film bucks the usual Hollywood rah-rah go American military trend. Prominent senators are bashing it for even implying that we used torture to hunt down Osama. The reviews I've read mention that the actual raid scene is calculated, realistic, and completely devoid of glamour or excitement. I haven't seen it, but it sounds more like Jarhead or Full Metal Jacket - a war movie that's portrays history and offers no moral or political sentiments one way or the other.

 

Still, you have a point. There was a fucking made-for-TV agit-prop films for pawns like Jessica Lynch just months after that combat incident - the same battle where a female Native American soldier actually fought and died with hardly the fanfare and attention.

since i havent seen it yet i can't be certain but based off of her bizarre deification of a super-hero like soldier who does things out of a WWII war comic book, Hurt Locker i'd be honestly shocked if the movie even resembled the amorality and viciousness displayed in Full Metal Jacket. We just don't have 'anti war' movies anymore, they don't exist. I think Brian Depalma tried it but the movie was poorly made and critics on top of bashing how poorly made it was found it extremely offensive (it was a depiction of the Iraq Haditha massacre & child rape). Compare Platoon, Born on the Fourth of July, Deerhunter, Full Metal Jacket to any war movie made after 2001 and you will see a huge difference. All of those movies had the balls to address the morality of war, all war movies made today by Hollywood barely touch it, they are morally ambiguous at best.

 

If Zero Dark Thirty actually addressed the facts of what happened, such as including a scene where the people who killed Osama had no idea he was actually Osama (see 60 minutes interview with one of the members of 'seal team 6') then i would be slightly pleased, but in the same way Homeland wraps neoconservative propaganda inside a mindset easily digested by a liberal i highly doubt that the movie will be anything but a modern post 9/11 typical military film ala United 93, Hurt Locker, Rendition, etc.

 

The only well done representation of modern war on film was in the form of the HBO miniseries Generation Kill. While not perfect or as good as the Wire (by the same writer) i felt it was the most authentic.

[Alcofribas]

encey fucking delivers.

 

love reading your posts in here, mang!

[awepittance]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

It's very difficult to frame geopolitical discussions like Drone strikes within the context of a domestic issue like gun crime.

 

Of course, the U.S. is unconscionable in this arena, and here comes Kathryn Bigelow with another movie glamorizing the despicable amoral actions of the U.S. armed forces with her latest movie.

 

It is difficult, but i think what made me initially compare the outrage of one to the other is that Obama went on TV and cried about how the children's futures were robbed of them, it really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not saying that Obama was fake crying, but i think it exemplified and was a perfect representation of this disconnect all Americans have.

[Guest Mirezzi]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

Not white.

It's very difficult to frame geopolitical discussions like Drone strikes within the context of a domestic issue like gun crime.

 

Of course, the U.S. is unconscionable in this arena, and here comes Kathryn Bigelow with another movie glamorizing the despicable amoral actions of the U.S. armed forces with her latest movie.

 

It is difficult, but i think what made me initially compare the outrage of one to the other is that Obama went on TV and cried about how the children's futures were robbed of them, it really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not saying that Obama was fake crying, but i think it exemplified and was a perfect representation of this disconnect all Americans have.

 

...and by disconnect, you mean of course Profoundly Disabling Cognitive Dissonance (PDCD™)?

 

 

Bigelow isn't close to capable of something like FMJ. She's a generic but talented pop-culture fascist. Her peers are more accurately Nolan and, say, Fincher.

[joshuatxuk]

FMJ jacket comparison was a weak one, I completely forgot about Generation Kill, that's probably a lot closer in terms of tone and relevance.

[RichieBees]

Ha ha, "prayers". What a deluded fool. All that lad needs is the internet.

lol

[kakapo]

american drone strikes have killed 178 children in yemen and pakistan. how come we've not talked about that?

 

American hypocrisy.

 

There's a bunch of little shits at the end of my street that I've been waiting for Obamalamadingdong to take out with one of his drones and they're still fucking there. Why am I still waiting? Because they're European?

[Nebraska]

I think there's a case to be made for sorting out your problems at home before getting involved in other peoples.

 

actually, my point in bringing up the kids killed in pakistan and yemen had something to do with this. i remember a quote i read once that said "a society creates it's own monsters"

 

a lot of the debate about this tragedy begs to ask the question why- but we're in the middle east killing twice as many kids. maybe the answer is right there

[LimpyLoo]

Ha ha, "prayers". What a deluded fool. All that lad needs is the internet.

 

The implication of prayers is frightening.

 

The idea that God has the ability to intervene in this world but lets all of these horrible things happen...

 

 

So yeah whatever prayers are a joke.

[lumpenprol]

nobody else wants to weigh in on the weird video on the previous page?

[LimpyLoo]

Some people think the shooting was a gov't hoax, and that video is supposed to be evidence.

[lumpenprol]

lol. No further thoughts?

 

I don't think the shooting was a hoax but that is one seriously weird video. It's not unusual to have odd "inappropriate" reactions to trauma, but that dude does behave like he's just getting into character.