ignatius Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 lovingly photoshopped by someone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 it may prove impossible for America to transcend race, hegemony & money I fear so as well. to an outsider, the divide seems too embedded in American history and way of life. a sustained education and social integration campaign might help evolve things, but... this admin would never even think of it, and of course anyone attempting it would be accused of brainwashing/cultural genocide by the likes of those Charlottesville boys. before any of this could even be considered as an effective idea though, step one would need to be resolving the ever-widening economic/class gulf, and that right there is the biggest hurdle of all. there's simply too much obstruction and inertia, some of which, again, is justified by/extrapolated from certain core American principles which are blatantly exploited by American leaders/elites. this is a black outlook and I hope the country can pull through and prove me wrong but the only thing I think would really effect the collective intellectual change needed to fix these problems at their root would be the very thing most sane people want to avoid: a destructive, protracted local conflict, the sheer human cost of which would force the nation to learn certain lessons and re-align its thinking (provided such a conflict comes to a good end which is another big if - the past civil wars didn't solve the north/south divide). WW2 did this for a good part of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 it may prove impossible for America to transcend race, hegemony & money not for lack of desire, far from it, but from the depths of the roots of its foundations, Trump is a symptom thats not casting pearls before swine bs more that unfortunate recent events, beamed globally, obscure the better angels of your nature & nation Trump's press junket today should be his political death sentence, equally if any president was gonna get wacked since Kennedy this must be the candidate, not advocating violence, but, shit happens I think that's why I find his presidency so troubling it is really attacking our basic ideals and values, or at least flippantly disregarding them. Really really cringe at the thought of him being assassinated. He would be martyred by a few and history will forever have that aspect of his presidency attached to it .He needs to be imprisoned and shamed. It's not just I don't condone in assassination but I feel like an assassination on the president is also an assassination on the institution of the president. It's just wrong, even if he's a terrible person. yeah i gotta say i don't advocate for it, at least not at this stage. it would have to be pretty extreme circumstances i.e. "we're going to bomb gyna and there's nothing you can do to stop me, ok? believe me" i've heard people i respect talk about how they can't wait for someone to take him out but i can imagine at this stage it would throw the world into chaos and yes he would absolutely be a martyr. we had a trump here he was called tony abbott look him up. he didn't have as much power as trump but his time in the top role was one of great ridicule and history will remember these people as fucking losers on the whole. which is pretty epic karma considering both abbott and trump are very similar in terms of wanting to be seen as winners and men of great conviction and power and influence. not saying i don't want bad things to happen to trump, but for many reasons assassination would not be good. Gotcha. I really wasn't feeling with Tony Abbott, interesting comparison to make. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 it may prove impossible for America to transcend race, hegemony & money to an outsider, the divide seems too this is a black outlook and I hope the country can pull through and prove me wrong but the only thing I think would really effect the collective intellectual change needed to fix these problems at their root would be the very thing most sane people want to avoid: a destructive, protracted local conflict, the sheer human cost of which would force the nation to learn certain lessons and re-align its thinking (provided such a conflict comes to a good end which is another big if - the past civil wars didn't solve the north/south divide). WW2 did this for a good part of Europe. I remember bringing up something like this a long time ago in another thread. That bleak outlook is actually something a lot of conservative people I've talked to have mentioned, which is ironic because I've heard the same kind of 'beak outlook' conclusion from friends on the left as well. Similar conclusion but different trains of thought. Kind of reminds you when I saw a list of all the things that tea party and Occupy Wall Street people shared in terms of grievances. The common thing I hear from these people who supported Trump and or really opposed the Democrats is this vague notion of how our constitution / American principles have been compromised beyond any kind of repair. They are on to something but their reasons and their conclusions are totally off. This Confederate flag stuff is a perfect example: I know people bothered by the removal of monuments and yet will never ever display Confederate flag themselves and have never actually espoused those beliefs. Yet they get riled up by the thought of people being offended by these monuments or contextualizing these monuments and actual history which involves oppression and racism. When Obama was in office I would hear all these things about how our country is going to shit and how everything so terrible. It came from the same people who supported the Iraq War. Usually comes from people who are white middle-class baby boomers. The whole notion is extremely selfish and delusional. This country has not been occupied and invaded since 1812. We had a civil war over 150 years ago. We came out with far less consequences from both world wars. We didn't suffer a collapse after the Cold War. We haven't had her constitutions written by other countries. We haven't had hundreds of thousands of civillians killed in aerial bombings, we're forced to permanently move from their homes after they were destroyed. We haven't suffered defeat in a major war. As traumatic as the Vietnam War was it wasn't divisive enough to create a coup or catastrophic unrest. I don't wish any of this stuff to happen but it is an interesting dilemma. We are the only country I can think of of this size and magnitude and power that hasn't had major fall of any kind since its existence. it may prove impossible for America to transcend race, hegemony & money not for lack of desire, far from it, but from the depths of the roots of its foundations, Trump is a symptom thats not casting pearls before swine bs more that unfortunate recent events, beamed globally, obscure the better angels of your nature & nation Trump's press junket today should be his political death sentence, equally if any president was gonna get wacked since Kennedy this must be the candidate, not advocating violence, but, shit happens I think that's why I find his presidency so troubling it is really attacking our basic ideals and values, or at least flippantly disregarding them. Really really cringe at the thought of him being assassinated. He would be martyred by a few and history will forever have that aspect of his presidency attached to it .He needs to be imprisoned and shamed. It's not just I don't condone in assassination but I feel like an assassination on the president is also an assassination on the institution of the president. It's just wrong, even if he's a terrible person. trump already assassinated the institution of the president Good point. Fuck. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) <p>that's not really what I'm talking about. when I bring up the idea of a hard reset forced by a conflict, I'm not talking about repairing the existing paradigm and continuing with it, I'm talking about radically changing everyone's mindset, from the left to the right. an intellectual revolution, seeing the landscape in a new light. think about WW2: following that, there were new systems and philosophies of governance, economy, social cohesion, etc etc. that were formulated as a deliberate rejection of the old values that led to that massive conflict. that's what I'm talking about the US needing.</p> <p> </p> <p>as for the remarks about not having suffered any severe consequences or collapse as a result of its military escapades, that's neither here nor there. that's not the true yardstick to measure a civilisation with. the degree to which it can guarantee basic human dignity for its populace, especially its weakest and its most underprivileged, is. ask a homeless guy what he thinks about the outcome of the Cold War.</p> Edited August 16, 2017 by usagi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 At this point, Trump is just an outburst away from blurting out/tweeting the N word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmbrancity Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 https://twitter.com/RealBlackRebel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 <p>that's not really what I'm talking about. when I bring up the idea of a hard reset forced by a conflict, I'm not talking about repairing the existing paradigm and continuing with it, I'm talking about radically changing everyone's mindset, from the left to the right. an intellectual revolution, seeing the landscape in a new light. think about WW2: following that, there were new systems and philosophies of governance, economy, social cohesion, etc etc. that were formulated as a deliberate rejection of the old values that led to that massive conflict. that's what I'm talking about the US needing.</p> <p> </p> <p>as for the remarks about not having suffered any severe consequences or collapse as a result of its military escapades, that's neither here nor there. that's not the true yardstick to measure a civilisation with. the degree to which it can guarantee basic human dignity for its populace, especially its weakest and its most underprivileged, is. ask a homeless guy what he thinks about the outcome of the Cold War.</p> we need to talk about capitalism then, it's no longer exclusively an american problem i think we can solve this tonight on watmm btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 <p>that's not really what I'm talking about. when I bring up the idea of a hard reset forced by a conflict, I'm not talking about repairing the existing paradigm and continuing with it, I'm talking about radically changing everyone's mindset, from the left to the right. an intellectual revolution, seeing the landscape in a new light. think about WW2: following that, there were new systems and philosophies of governance, economy, social cohesion, etc etc. that were formulated as a deliberate rejection of the old values that led to that massive conflict. that's what I'm talking about the US needing.</p> Ah that makes more sense. I agree we need a reset, and I went off a tangent that, as you pointed out, doesnt really address anything. Do you think Trump and the right-wing in Europe is essentially trying to stall such a reset? Or is part of more broad pushback against progress and change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 <p>that's not really what I'm talking about. when I bring up the idea of a hard reset forced by a conflict, I'm not talking about repairing the existing paradigm and continuing with it, I'm talking about radically changing everyone's mindset, from the left to the right. an intellectual revolution, seeing the landscape in a new light. think about WW2: following that, there were new systems and philosophies of governance, economy, social cohesion, etc etc. that were formulated as a deliberate rejection of the old values that led to that massive conflict. that's what I'm talking about the US needing.</p> <p> </p> <p>as for the remarks about not having suffered any severe consequences or collapse as a result of its military escapades, that's neither here nor there. that's not the true yardstick to measure a civilisation with. the degree to which it can guarantee basic human dignity for its populace, especially its weakest and its most underprivileged, is. ask a homeless guy what he thinks about the outcome of the Cold War.</p> we need to talk about capitalism then, it's no longer exclusively an american problem i think we can solve this tonight on watmm btw probably I think comrade diatoms has already laid the foundation for us so we have the benefit of standing on the shoulders of giants, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 i think we can solve this tonight on watmm btw Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usagi Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Do you think Trump and the right-wing in Europe is essentially trying to stall such a reset? Or is part of more broad pushback against progress and change? I don't think they even think in those terms consciously. they must believe that they're in the right, as everyone does, so their thinking demands a deeper examination than just concluding that they're actively and deliberately opposed to good things like social progress, as if they're cartoon bad guys. has anyone actually been able to pin down what Trump believes in, for instance? it seems to me that this creeping fascism around the world is an expression of human stupidity when faced with change, amplified most sharply by global economic circumstances (austerity + resentment + easy target in musulmen). the world is trying to become more egalitarian, which means white/upper class folks are being asked to concede a certain amount of power in order to ensure a fairer balance, and this fundamentally disturbs and provokes a visceral reaction from the less moral and empathetic people among them. Trump et al are mostly opportunists exploiting those sentiments, I think there are very few actually "principled" (using that term loosely to include white nationalist ideology) people in those ranks. Edited August 16, 2017 by usagi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 https://twitter.com/RealBlackRebel Sometimes they chop a black man's balls off before the hanging. Maybe then he will understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 there's a rally in dc? ughhhhhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 The same day as the juggalo march... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) yep lol Edited August 16, 2017 by zaphod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 They in for some deep shit if they fuck with juggalos...gonna whoop whoop they ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 So Trump walks back on the scripted statement he was pretty much forced to give, wadda twat. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-wrong-side-fight-nazis-231903921.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 as a jew, as an american, as a human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubin Farr Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Interesting read: http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psn Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Interesting read: http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/ Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 They in for some deep shit if they fuck with juggalos...gonna whoop whoop they ass Some Hunger Games level shit. May the odds be ever in your Faygo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDobalina Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 May the odds be ever in your Faygo! FLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublename Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Do you think Trump and the right-wing in Europe is essentially trying to stall such a reset? Or is part of more broad pushback against progress and change? I don't think they even think in those terms consciously. they must believe that they're in the right, as everyone does, so their thinking demands a deeper examination than just concluding that they're actively and deliberately opposed to good things like social progress, as if they're cartoon bad guys. has anyone actually been able to pin down what Trump believes in, for instance? it seems to me that this creeping fascism around the world is an expression of human stupidity when faced with change, amplified most sharply by global economic circumstances (austerity + resentment + easy target in musulmen). the world is trying to become more egalitarian, which means white/upper class folks are being asked to concede a certain amount of power in order to ensure a fairer balance, and this fundamentally disturbs and provokes a visceral reaction from the less moral and empathetic people among them. Trump et al are mostly opportunists exploiting those sentiments, I think there are very few actually "principled" (using that term loosely to include white nationalist ideology) people in those ranks. You are really on point. Nice succinct breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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