AJW Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Being born into money just eliminates the tedious struggle for money. What you then do with that freedom is entirely up to you. I'd rather be born into money than be a bitter jobsworthy all my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuatxuk Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 as stated before, there is a really wide distinction between upper middle class (still pretty fucking rich) and the super rich. upper middle class people seem to be a mix of hard workers, confident, very able to hide personal problems and appear normal/ok. for the most part, most rich people i know deserve their wealth. however, their kids are a whole different story. there's plenty of great, moneybag-ridden parents but often they are too occupied with making money to raise their kids reasonably. that's when society takes a more active role in raising your kids and they start demanding designer clothes and other stupid things. i have no idea how to fix this. i've never known any super rich people, so i can't really speak about them. but i am freaked the fuck out by the amount of influence a billion dollars can buy. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLA FUR BIS FLE Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I sometimes think that if I had a shit ton of money, I would buy one of the shittiest houses in one of the most abandoned areas in the city that I live in, and make it super fantastico inside. Maybe some mini-gun turrets for protection. The entrance would be an elaborate tunnel network, and my front door would be a dumpster down the road. My mailbox would be a garbage can. This is my only rich fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamos scorcho Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I feel like I know a lot of people, in the arts especially, that have an idea for a project and they can execute it with ease because they aren't tied down by a bothersome job. This gets to me a bit sometimes. I should get over it, I guess. this is the only thing that really pisses me off and makes me jealous a bit. i feel like a good deal of the artists and musicians we read about are rich people who have connections and or time to spend. of course there are exceptions, but yeah. most people can't afford all that equipment, or have to work for years to build up the money for it. it's shitty, but meaningless. so it's whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baph Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I once considered making a thread on watmm "does the cream really rise to the top?" While this is not true in all or even most cases - admittedly there are a lot of entitled, spoiled folks out there - as I've aged I've noticed a lot of people in positions of power seem to "deserve" to be there (whether "deserve" is a good or bad thing is open to interpretation). Maybe it's because I'm in the high-tech sector, which is more merit driven? Not sure. But I've met a lot of CEOs who are very well-rounded in terms of their skill set - smart, strategic, hard working, good with people. In short, winners at life. And I imagine this applies to most life-pursuits, even in art, it's typically the most talented who get the most recognition, right? Or at least the ones that possess the broadest range of skills, including of course self-promotion (thinking Dickie James here). I will agree with the earlier comment about the importance of leisure time to grow and follow one's own pursuits, though. Hard to flower to your full potential if you're stuck in a grinding day job. And yet, many others have done it. One sure thing is resentment is only worth it if it motivates you to get off your ass. And yeah, the new class of uber-wealthy is scary as fuck. 1) I've found from working in corporate law that folks in corporations tend to rise to exactly their level of incompetence. Meaning that the fairly competent are promoted to exactly the point where they can no longer perform competently. 2) I also realized, from going to law school and working for 2 years as a lawyer, that the entire legal industry is founded on good old fashioned nepotism. I realized, too late, that I was one of very few law students who had to take out massive amounts of student loans. I thought, you know, take on this debt and make something of myself. It didn't quite dawn on me that (a) everyone else had rich daddies and (b) the law firms want associates with rich daddies because only rich daddies and rich daddy connections can bring in "big clients" or that © working your ass off, being smarter than- and doing 90% more work than the kiddies with rich daddies would only ensure that you get laid off so that the kiddies with rich daddies can have some more work to do. There have been a good number of legal blogs/commentaries since I graduated which essentially make it clear: if you have to put yourself through law school you shouldn't be a part of this profession, and your crippling student loan debt is your own damn fault for trying to push too far: you should have become a butcher. Fuck that. Fuck this entire fucking system. Yeah, and the advice I got when I was laid off by these out-of-touch debt-free dipshits: go travel the world! But I'm not bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Being born into money just eliminates the tedious struggle for money. What you then do with that freedom is entirely up to you. I'd rather be born into money than be a bitter jobsworthy all my life. I think struggle is the thing that makes smart people succeed. It's all about waiting for [and acting on] the right opportunity after that. I think of this subject in the same way as exercise. You kind of have to do something you don't particularly enjoy to be healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundwave Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 all the money in the world wont stop you being the biggest dickhead also most self made millonaries are tight as a ducks arse unless it makes the openly look bad occasionally you'll meet a nice silver spoon type who genuinely appreciates real culture and real people beyond thier wealth (i.e. rich hippy) which they tend to be a little embaressd to be open about but always put on good country house parties and mini festivals but then again there are plenty of shallow biggots who spend all of thier exotic but essentially dull lives letting everyone else know how rich they are and always strive to be one up on their peers by what they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakapo Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I once considered making a thread on watmm "does the cream really rise to the top?" I think the composition of LTM answers that question. (I'm allowed to say that as joyrex is currently in Scotland trying to save Richard's marriage) While this is not true in all or even most cases - admittedly there are a lot of entitled, spoiled folks out there - as I've aged I've noticed a lot of people in positions of power seem to "deserve" to be there (whether "deserve" is a good or bad thing is open to interpretation). Maybe it's because I'm in the high-tech sector, which is more merit driven? Not sure. But I've met a lot of CEOs who are very well-rounded in terms of their skill set - smart, strategic, hard working, good with people. In short, winners at life. Up to a point I'd agree. But sometimes I can't help but think that ambition is simply evolutionary compensation for being born stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J3FF3R00 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think the composition of LTM answers that question. (I'm allowed to say that as joyrex is currently in Scotland trying to save Richard's marriage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I sometimes think that if I had a shit ton of money, I would buy one of the shittiest houses in one of the most abandoned areas in the city that I live in, and make it super fantastico inside. Maybe some mini-gun turrets for protection. The entrance would be an elaborate tunnel network, and my front door would be a dumpster down the road. My mailbox would be a garbage can. This is my only rich fantasy. That'd be awesome, can i come visit when it's done. Please don't shoot me with your medi-guns when i show up, as i'll make a nice stir fry dinner, in your double deluxe underground kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 1) I've found from working in corporate law that folks in corporations tend to rise to exactly their level of incompetence. Meaning that the fairly competent are promoted to exactly the point where they can no longer perform competently. 2) I also realized, from going to law school and working for 2 years as a lawyer, that the entire legal industry is founded on good old fashioned nepotism. I realized, too late, that I was one of very few law students who had to take out massive amounts of student loans. I thought, you know, take on this debt and make something of myself. It didn't quite dawn on me that (a) everyone else had rich daddies and (b) the law firms want associates with rich daddies because only rich daddies and rich daddy connections can bring in "big clients" or that © working your ass off, being smarter than- and doing 90% more work than the kiddies with rich daddies would only ensure that you get laid off so that the kiddies with rich daddies can have some more work to do. There have been a good number of legal blogs/commentaries since I graduated which essentially make it clear: if you have to put yourself through law school you shouldn't be a part of this profession, and your crippling student loan debt is your own damn fault for trying to push too far: you should have become a butcher. Fuck that. Fuck this entire fucking system. Yeah, and the advice I got when I was laid off by these out-of-touch debt-free dipshits: go travel the world! But I'm not bitter. It's really depressing to hear you say this, and I believe every word of it. I recently had to use a lawyer to help extricate me from the legal claims of a former employer. I came in with an open mind, ready to not believe the hype about the lawyers being greedy and amoral. I chose a high priced, big name firm recommended by my father. I ended up half-choosing, half-being assigned one of the younger lawyers at the firm. Still, she was charging $600/hr so I figured she must be some hot shit, and she certainly talked the talk. She seemed sassy and confident. We laid a lot of groundwork for my position, discussed strategy, and though the bill was high, I figured it'd be worth it. First threatening letter we get from the oppposing counsel, and she freezes like a deer in headlights. She tells me she's dropping my case! I couldn't believe it. She claimed that it was due to her feeling un-confident about the area of law we're discussing. Would have been nice if she had told me that from the start! Then she seemingly remembers that by dumping me like a hot potato, she might be opening herself up to a lawsuit from me, so she tries to play nice by recommending me to some other hotshot lawyer friends of hers in other firms. The hilarious thing was they all seemed to support my position, and I got the distinct impression that my lawyer was simply wet behind the ears. After the call, when I say something positive to my lawyer about the advice I just received from the other lawyers, she doesn't even acknowledge it - seems I wounded her professional pride. So then, maybe because I stung her pride, she says she'll take me back as a client. So we move forward and enter into discussions with the lawyer for the opposing side. I'm now unsure of my lawyer's street smarts, but I figure whatever, she's most familiar with my case, so...At one point I authorize my lawyer to call up the opposition's lawyer to discuss something, which she does. It seems like she handles it ok. Based on the reaction from the other side, it seems they have nothing. It's clear they were bluffing and the case is dead in the water. So I figure we'll just leave it there, there's no reason to pursue things further. Just wait to see if we hear a peep from the opposition. Then about a week later I get an email update from my lawyer, she said she just got off the phone with the opposition's lawyer, and there's no new news. I do a mental "wtf?" as I didn't authorize her to call up the opposition's lawyer again, and I figure she'll charge me for it too. "Did they call you, or did you initiate the call?" I ask. She doesn't answer me. What sort of childish shit is this? So I write her a civil but direct email telling her I don't want her calling up the opposition's lawyer again without checking with me first. A few days later, she sends me a formal letter, cc-ing the head of their firm, saying they are dropping me as a client immediately. In the email, she lies about our past conversations to make it seem as though she did her best to help me, and I was unreasonable. In the email, she uses the malapropism "flush it out", which is a personal pet peeve of mine - I figured I'd send her a snarky one line reply saying that even with her Stanford education and $600 price tag she still didn't understand the difference between flesh it out and flush it out, but just decided to let it drop. The price tag for the whole debacle? $25,000 My conclusions after this ordeal were as follows: - firm lawyers are essentially bad news. Their main objective is to create profit for their firm and themselves. Of course on some level you expect this to be the case, but I was rather shocked by the degree to which I was nickel-and-dimed - following from the above point, it's clear that firm lawyers do careful risk-assessment analysis, for maximum gain vs. minimal risk. You won't find any heroes willing to take a stand on principle. As soon as you are perceived to be over their risk/reward threshold, they will try to dump you if possible - following from the above, they try to push you into negotiation/arbitration. They don't necessarily want a court case (not sure why, maybe due to the risk and length of the case), but they always seemed to be pushing me towards negotiating with the other side, even when it was clear the prudent course of action was to sit back and do nothing. I ended up concluding this was simply a way to rack up further charges without exposing themselves to risk. - I learned the girl lawyer I was talking to seemed very close to the female senior partner. As baph said, I got the distinct impression there was nepotism involved. My lawyer was clearly bright, but she seemed very green and was lacking in street smarts. Not only that, but she was strangely childish, in terms of being sensitive to any criticism. - Do not talk back to a firm lawyer or question their judgment. They are there to guide you down the path that makes the most money for them. If you buck, they'll dump you for some sucker who is more docile. I ended up talking to a solo practitioner (is that how you call them?) friend of my mom's, and it was like night-and-day. Dude was conscientious, did his homework,and was very street smart. I guess, as with anything, you need to keep looking around until you find the competent people. But this experience certainly soured me towards law firms. My impression is they are sleazy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakapo Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 The price tag for the whole debacle? $25,000 Jesus Christ, you could have hosted watmm for 40 years. In all seriousness do you not have a regulatory body like the SRA in the UK? With regards to nepotism, it's the same story within the UK, at least with barristers/QCs, very much an old boys network. From a friend's experience, if you don't have the right tweed for the shooting party at the weekend, you're fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 i know born rich people. A women and her daughters. I cleaned their house. Nice lady, but they live in a fantasy world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Being poor you miss out big time, but I think if you can live really meager and you are used to a level of pain everything is gravy from there. You appreciate everything. I think being poor builds character. Its not a cliche. There is no excuse for ignorance though. How many really great artists or thinkers were born rich? All the rich kids i know seem to have very little meat to them. They lack a level of dirt and depth. Something is missing. This is not jealousy talking. I am jealous yes, but I think it's those people that have the brains and the poor background that make the things we appreciate the most. There is blood in the art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Being poor you miss out big time, but I think if you can live really meager and you are used to a level of pain everything is gravy from there. You appreciate everything. I think being poor builds character. Its not a cliche. There is no excuse for ignorance though. How many really great artists or thinkers were born rich? All the rich kids i know seem to have very little meat to them. They lack a level of dirt and depth. Something is missing. This is not jealousy talking. I am jealous yes, but I think it's those people that have the brains and the poor background that make the things we appreciate the most. There is blood in the art. Wittgenstein was pretty rich. Metternich, Machiavelli, most of the leaders of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, most of the heads of the Amer. Rev., i want to agree with you, but it does seem like jealousy. in a capitalist society, ideas don't matter nearly as much as the capital needed to put it into implementation. paris hilton=lots of ideas? has a clothing line, records, etc. etc. most of it is probably run by other people. but she had the capital hey it sucks to admit it, but sooner or later we need to realize there are superiors in our society, not because they are smarter, but because they have the capital to gain influence. its not fair, but so is life. of course you always have a chance to gain capital and wield influence of your own, but thats as much about kissing ass/luck as it is intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 and on that note the thread is nicely capped off/ well unless you want to start dissing on law firms. Then again i was enjoying bathing in your acrimony with respect to the born rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive4 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 funny how many so many do not still quite understand it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Money can free the mind and the hand of the thinking man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candiru Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Money don't matter 2 night it sure didn't matter yesterday just when you think that you've got enough that's when it picks up and flies away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstark Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 superficial cunts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 superficial cunts yes. well put. money obviously does not rule the world, its only the people that have enormous amounts of money, and the rest of the entire world population that acknowledges and allows that to happen. superficial cunts=humanity. at least this day and age. deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Being poor you miss out big time, but I think if you can live really meager and you are used to a level of pain everything is gravy from there. You appreciate everything. I think being poor builds character. Its not a cliche. There is no excuse for ignorance though. How many really great artists or thinkers were born rich? All the rich kids i know seem to have very little meat to them. They lack a level of dirt and depth. Something is missing. This is not jealousy talking. I am jealous yes, but I think it's those people that have the brains and the poor background that make the things we appreciate the most. There is blood in the art. Wittgenstein was pretty rich. Metternich, Machiavelli, most of the leaders of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, most of the heads of the Amer. Rev., i want to agree with you, but it does seem like jealousy. I resent rich kids and their ignorance of the struggles the poor face. I am jealous of intelligent talented people because it doesnt matter their background. They are free. I have good friends that are brilliant that got out of poverty with their brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Being poor you miss out big time, but I think if you can live really meager and you are used to a level of pain everything is gravy from there. You appreciate everything. I think being poor builds character. Its not a cliche. There is no excuse for ignorance though. How many really great artists or thinkers were born rich? All the rich kids i know seem to have very little meat to them. They lack a level of dirt and depth. Something is missing. This is not jealousy talking. I am jealous yes, but I think it's those people that have the brains and the poor background that make the things we appreciate the most. There is blood in the art. Wittgenstein was pretty rich. Metternich, Machiavelli, most of the leaders of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, most of the heads of the Amer. Rev., i want to agree with you, but it does seem like jealousy. I resent rich kids and their ignorance of the struggles the poor face. I am jealous of intelligent talented people because it doesnt matter their background. They are free. I have good friends that are brilliant that got out of poverty with their brain. so a kid raised rich but does something intelligent doesn't count? what do you think of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I dont want to judge someone until I get the whole story anyway, but i guess i resent them a little cause they've had more opportunities to cultivate themselves. Better schools. Better environment to live in. I can't help what I feel. Maybe not entirely logical. If they are great people, kind and doing good things I guess I resent them the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaarg Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 It's all Darwin's evolution I think. Some animals have it easier, some harder to survive, and people made this civilization the same way. There might be a slight difference however as the poorer still have quite a good chance to start rising (money-wise), while animals might need a bit more. Maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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