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interesting ted talk by transgender. 15 mins well spent

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY

cheers, great vid

 

edit: there's an extra layer of complexity here but im not sure how it maps out onto these ideas.. i have lived that very experience she describes on the plane as a male but i believe it had to do with me not being a very "manly" male and being relatively agreeable... in fact all of the examples she gave I could envisage being lived by an agreeable male.

 

and so im curious as to how much of what is commonly known as male privilege has to do exclusively with being male and/or having more disagreeable/assertive personality traits..

Edited by MIXL2
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interesting ted talk by transgender. 15 mins well spent

 

cheers, great vid

 

edit: there's an extra layer of complexity here but im not sure how it maps out onto these ideas.. i have lived that very experience she describes on the plane as a male but i believe it had to do with me not being a very "manly" male and being relatively agreeable... in fact all of the examples she gave I could envisage being lived by an agreeable male.

 

and so im curious as to how much of what is commonly known as male privilege has to do exclusively with being male and/or having more disagreeable/assertive personality traits..

 

 

likely has something to do with that. but in her example, she clearly was being disagreeable and didn't "get away with it". so there's more than just the agreeable/disagreeable aspect. you are allowed to be more disagreeable if you're a man, it seems. but i'd rather stay away from jp-like arguments here at watmm. nothing good will come of it.

 

also, i disagree because i'm a man ;)

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to me the transwoman in the video seems like an actor. very stilted and while you would say she is authentic if you knew that she is a theater actor I would call her appearance inauthentic as an actual person. I can't describe it but she constantly seems like disguising her voice to a higher pitch, reciting a well rehearsed speech and acting like a caricature of a women. don't get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all and she makes some excellent points about gender inequality/inequity. but it's a bit weird to watch a person that appears so fake talking about the "call of authenticity"

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Or it was a tightly written and rehearsed 15 minute TED speech by someone who has experience talking to a crowd of people....which would not diminish the message at all.

Edited by azatoth
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to me the transwoman in the video seems like an actor. very stilted and while you would say she is authentic if you knew that she is a theater actor I would call her appearance inauthentic as an actual person. I can't describe it but she constantly seems like disguising her voice to a higher pitch, reciting a well rehearsed speech and acting like a caricature of a women. don't get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all and she makes some excellent points about gender inequality/inequity. but it's a bit weird to watch a person that appears so fake talking about the "call of authenticity"

 

not sure what you mean. isn't that inherent to being a transgender? There's still something left of her previous sex in her appearance. So odds are you might pick that up as inauthenticity. At least, that's the extent from what I understand  from you words. Also, I can imagine identity being a very important part of a transgender. Moreso than your average cis-gender. So I guess she/he can be very aware of her/his own identity. Perhaps that's you're picking up. Might appear to you as a form of acting. From her perspective could be the other way around; a conscious effort to look for authenticity. Which she basically says in her talk as well. I'm guessing her whole notion of authenticity is completely different to my or any cis-gendered person's notion. For her it's not just a given. Part of it is acquired. As her appearance is part hormone therapy and part surgery.

 

Dunno. Somehow fell the need to come to her defense, I guess. As I really don't think she was fooling the audience. Or trying to, anyways. Also notice how the audience picked up on her emotion when she started talking about her father at the end. It didn't really show in the clip, but you can hear the reaction of the audience (and in her voice). Seems very authentic to me.

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to me the transwoman in the video seems like an actor. very stilted and while you would say she is authentic if you knew that she is a theater actor I would call her appearance inauthentic as an actual person. I can't describe it but she constantly seems like disguising her voice to a higher pitch, reciting a well rehearsed speech and acting like a caricature of a women. don't get me wrong, I have no problem with it at all and she makes some excellent points about gender inequality/inequity. but it's a bit weird to watch a person that appears so fake talking about the "call of authenticity"

 

not sure what you mean. isn't that inherent to being a transgender? There's still something left of her previous sex in her appearance. So odds are you might pick that up as inauthenticity. At least, that's the extent from what I understand  from you words. Also, I can imagine identity being a very important part of a transgender. Moreso than your average cis-gender. So I guess she/he can be very aware of her/his own identity. Perhaps that's you're picking up. Might appear to you as a form of acting. From her perspective could be the other way around; a conscious effort to look for authenticity. Which she basically says in her talk as well. I'm guessing her whole notion of authenticity is completely different to my or any cis-gendered person's notion. For her it's not just a given. Part of it is acquired. As her appearance is part hormone therapy and part surgery.

 

Dunno. Somehow fell the need to come to her defense, I guess. As I really don't think she was fooling the audience. Or trying to, anyways. Also notice how the audience picked up on her emotion when she started talking about her father at the end. It didn't really show in the clip, but you can hear the reaction of the audience (and in her voice). Seems very authentic to me.

 

She having a different definition of authenticity than most people could well be it. Usually you would say authenticity is closely related to naturalness but in her case it is the constant struggle against the traits that come with her natural sex so she like a lot of transgenders sometimes overcompensates a bit by imitating female gesturing and expression in an exaggerated way. I wasn't attacking her in any way, just telling what caught my eye

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Some recommendations for anyone interested in trans ppl...

 

Bixa travesty, a docu about Linn de Quebrada

A Fantastic Woman, a fucking amazing film about a bereaved trans woman
PARIS IS BURNING which is PARIS IS BURNING
Close knit, a beautiful querky film about a girl who goes to live with her uncle and meets his trans wife
Marilyn, an Argentinian true story, the real person is controversial in Argentina for reasons I wont go into here (spoilers?), not strictly speaking about a trans woman, as far as I know, more a gay man with trans/drag aspects

Check out these people: Paris Lees (activist, amazing speaker), Contrapoints (fun youtuber), Bailey Jay (porn star, used to be so much fun on Twitter but sadly just advertises OnlyFans and Snapchat on there now...)

 

and a song by who is now Anohni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslkgAX3uAg

and one of the few songs I like by Crystal Castles, just cuz (why not)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKdyHcZJcs

btw if anyone needs any contacts or advice with trans stuff, dm me. sorry for the lack of trans men in the list :( dunno why I am not familiar with enough.

oh and if u wanna fraternise with the enemy, check out Blaire White

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sorry for the lack of trans men in the list :( dunno why I am not familiar with enough.

 

 

I've read an opinion piece regarding the relative invisibility of trans men compared to trans women in public discourse, and how it's another manifestation of misogyny, what would your thoughts on that be?

I'm inclined to agree, although I think a large unsung part of that is just the general perviness of cis men

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sorry for the lack of trans men in the list :( dunno why I am not familiar with enough.

 

I've read an opinion piece regarding the relative invisibility of trans men compared to trans women in public discourse, and how it's another manifestation of misogyny, what would your thoughts on that be?

I'm inclined to agree, although I think a large unsung part of that is just the general perviness of cis men

 

 

link to the piece?

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Got to give it to them. It takes a lot of, yes, balls, to do this.  I mean a transwoman is like a hair transplant. You only see the bad ones. Sorry, I been up for 24 hours

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One of my employees is trans. She is an amazing person and customers love her for her personality and absolutely 100% not fukin phased by any idiots being cunts about her life and transition. I admire her strength TBH. It's funny, she brought in a pic of before when she dressed and was a typical 'boy'... but holy fuck we were all dying laughing at how much she already looked and acted like a female. 

 

People honestly give way too much of a shit about trans people for all the wrong/most disturbing reasons. Fear just leads to even less understanding.. and it's sad. I've heard so many men say disgusting things about how they would beat up a trans woman if they found out they were making out with them in a club or something. Shit always bothers me. Talk about absolutely frail masculinity if making out with someone who identifies as a woman makes you a queer or something if you honestly didn't know. Pathetic bros and insecure men who would probably do well with a good pegging are the biggest perpetrators of trans-fear-idiocy IMO. 

 

Gotta love peeps for who they are. THat's the rule IME/IMO. Love = Love and it doesn't hurt to be a good person. 

Edited by Audioblysk
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making out seems pretty innocuous but imo at this point in the culture it is probaly best for the safety of the woman to say it before taking things further. too many people get murdered because of this madness.

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Generally speaking, people can feel cheated when they realise that the person who they are in a relationship with, is not the person who they thought they were. Whether transgender or some other aspect. Could be anything really. Imo, it can be a perfectly understandable response when someone does feel cheated.

It's equally problematic to say it shouldn't matter as it is to say that it should matter if someones trans. There's no right or wrong. At least not until violence comes into play. It's not just about acceptance of transgenders. It's also about trust. To put the blame squarely into the "does not tolerate transgenders" box doesnt do anyone justice.

Although, in all likelyhood, it can be part of the equation. Lets not fool ourselves. But first and foremost, it's a relational thing. And, imo, to a lesser extent a cultural thing.

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Yeh, this was pertaining to violence being an answer for bro-bags who got 'duped' by a trans person. I'm not really sure the moral line of whether or not it's pertinent information to exchange if someone wants to get hot'n'heavy at a club with a trans woman because they find them attractive as a woman. I'd imagine that line would be broached at some point. Either way, shouldn't end in violence or the world ending.

 

People are still pretty 1950's about sex in some ways. For instance, some people I've seen deriving their sexual identity based on if they ever tried something. Kissed a dude? Must be gay to have even thought about it. Are you a girl who likes to watch female only porn? Must be a lesbian. Made out with attractive transexual at a club without them halting the situation with trumpets to proclaim their sexual identity and history so that they may court someone like a suitor with horse-dancing or some shit? Kill them, you're gay and weird now and it's their fault you wanted to do it in the first place.

 

See what I mean? 

Edited by Audioblysk
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Wouldn't call that 50's though. Prejudices have been part of humans from the start. Putting a 50's stamp on it, might imply that it's a thing of the past (and not the future). And although specific prejudices might change over time, people will keep on being prejudiced. And it's also not just the 50s. It's simply bigger than that. Even if there might have been places and moments in time where people thought different about genders. Hell, there was a period guys wore whigs with long white hair! How trans is that!? (it's more crossdressing, but whatever)

 

More interestingly though, I'm oddly reminded of my European background by not having the urge to immediately think in terms of lives being at stake. Could be my naivety. Might also be a lack of "guns". Living in a pro-gun society implies issues of life and death can be so much more immediate, I'm guessing. As a jerk could pull out a gun at any moment and bring an issue to some kind of conclusion. I simply don't have that experience. It's just not a thing. Issues don't tend to be issues of life and death. Not that it doesn't happen around here. It's just way less immediate.

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