alternatives to google?

[Joyrex]

LOL, didn't the NSA have a hand in creating the Tor protocol?

[perunamuusi]

https://startpage.com/

looks a little bit like

 

https://ixquick.com/

[Blir]

*ctrl+F "Jewgle" no results*

 

Fucking, step it up you guys.

[Ego]

 

 

Has it been broken? Silk road was brought down using techniques unrelated to Tor traffic..

You have something I can read? Last I read the NSA was struggling with Tor.

There's DDOS attacks to reveal nodes but traffic analysis was still impossible I thought.

Tor traffic itself is not invisible. ISPs can see when you're using Tor, although they obviously can't see the actual packets.

 

Using Tor in and of itself could warrant you being classified by the NSA / GCHQ as 'questionable', and if you use Tor from your home, your ISP knows you are using Tor, so the NSA / GCHQ knows you're using Tor.

 

edit: also, I would like to point out that simply using Tor does not mean your activity online is anonymous. Tor Project themselves make a very big thing out of making a point of this.

There are some attack vectors through network analysis when a government has eyes on entry and exit nodes of the network but it should obscure your location more than enough if you're not being actively watched for certain behavior.

 

But browsing behavior should be the least of your concern anyway. Having all you communication logged on servers beyond your control or trust is a much bigger problem that can be fixed today by using your own trusted servers and/or by using end to end encryption.

[oscillik]

 

 

Has it been broken? Silk road was brought down using techniques unrelated to Tor traffic..

You have something I can read? Last I read the NSA was struggling with Tor.

There's DDOS attacks to reveal nodes but traffic analysis was still impossible I thought.

Tor traffic itself is not invisible. ISPs can see when you're using Tor, although they obviously can't see the actual packets.

 

Using Tor in and of itself could warrant you being classified by the NSA / GCHQ as 'questionable', and if you use Tor from your home, your ISP knows you are using Tor, so the NSA / GCHQ knows you're using Tor.

 

edit: also, I would like to point out that simply using Tor does not mean your activity online is anonymous. Tor Project themselves make a very big thing out of making a point of this.

There are some attack vectors through network analysis when a government has eyes on entry and exit nodes of the network but it should obscure your location more than enough if you're not being actively watched for certain behavior.

 

But browsing behavior should be the least of your concern anyway. Having all you communication logged on servers beyond your control or trust is a much bigger problem that can be fixed today by using your own trusted servers and/or by using end to end encryption.

 

 

yeah but that's the point I'm making - if you're browsing from home, the NSA know you are using Tor, and just by association of using Tor you could be considered an 'interest', and put yourself on their active monitoring list just for having used Tor at all.

 

also, if you're browsing from home, they already know your location so using Tor to obscure your location is useless. The only time I can see Tor being actually useful for obfuscating your browsing is if you browse from different locations at different times of the day, every day, and never use the same connection twice.

 

the very definition, in my opinion, of impractical.

[Ego]

also, if you're browsing from home, they already know your location so using Tor to obscure your location is useless. The only time I can see Tor being actually useful for obfuscating your browsing is if you browse from different locations at different times of the day, every day, and never use the same connection twice.

That really depends. In theory there are situations they could link traffic coming out of an exit node to your traffic going into an entry node. But they need ears on both ends. If I'm using a non-US internet connection and go through Tor through an entry node without hitting US backbones they probably will not have that data and they will not be able to figure out what my IP is. (You can specify preferred entry/exit nodes btw) In the case of hidden services it's even more difficult because they don't know where the receiving end is located.

[oscillik]

 

also, if you're browsing from home, they already know your location so using Tor to obscure your location is useless. The only time I can see Tor being actually useful for obfuscating your browsing is if you browse from different locations at different times of the day, every day, and never use the same connection twice.

That really depends. In theory there are situations they could link traffic coming out of an exit node to your traffic going into an entry node. But they need ears on both ends. If I'm using a non-US internet connection and go through Tor through an entry node without hitting US backbones they probably will not have that data and they will not be able to figure out what my IP is. (You can specify preferred entry/exit nodes btw) In the case of hidden services it's even more difficult because they don't know where the receiving end is located.

 

You're not getting my point. I give up trying to explain again.

 

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online. If you don't want them to know what you're doing online, stop using the internet. It's that simple. If you use Tor, especially from home, you are painting a target on your front door.

[Ego]

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online. If you don't want them to know what you're doing online, stop using the internet. It's that simple. If you use Tor, especially from home, you are painting a target on your front door.

No they don't. They can see what I'm posting on WATMM, they can see my Gmail inbox or my Google searches when I'm not anonymized. But there's a lot more they can't see. The NSA does not have worldwide access to every bitstream on the internet. They must love the FUD that they are the all-seeing eye that can crack any encryption. Most people are already shrugging in defeat. I don't care about being "suspicious" because I use encryption and anonymization technology. It's not a crime. I care about beating them at their sick, useless and evil game.

[oscillik]

 

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online. If you don't want them to know what you're doing online, stop using the internet. It's that simple. If you use Tor, especially from home, you are painting a target on your front door.

No they don't. They can see what I'm posting on WATMM, they can see my Gmail inbox or my Google searches when I'm not anonymized. But there's a lot more they can't see. The NSA does not have worldwide access to every bitstream on the internet. They must love the FUD that they are the all-seeing eye that can crack any encryption. Most people are already shrugging in defeat. I don't care about being "suspicious" because I use encryption and anonymization technology. It's not a crime. I care about beating them at their sick, useless and evil game.

 

 

You're not getting my point. I give up trying to explain again.

 

 

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online. If you don't want them to know what you're doing online, stop using the internet. It's that simple. If you use Tor, especially from home, you are painting a target on your front door.

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online. If you don't want them to know what you're doing online, stop using the internet. It's that simple. If you use Tor, especially from home, you are painting a target on your front door.

 

the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online.

Point is, the intelligence agencies of the world (NSA, GCHQ, etc) all know what you're doing online.

 

 

not just the NSA.

[Ego]

But the NSA and my country's intelligence agency aren't sharing their data (I hope.) They need the data on both ends to do those timing/package analysis attacks on the Tor protocol. The NSA's previous attack on Tor was through a browser exploit.

[oscillik]

But the NSA and my country's intelligence agency aren't sharing their data (I hope.) They need the data on both ends to do those timing/package analysis attacks on the Tor protocol. The NSA's previous attack on Tor was through a browser exploit.

It's already been confirmed that GCHQ are sharing data with NSA and vice versa (but that didn't really need to be stated).

 

If you are paranoid enough to be worried by all these revelations so much so that you are considering going 'under the radar', then you may as well assume everyone is doing the same.

 

(clarification: I don't mean you ego, when I say you here...I just mean the general 'you')

[Guest fiznuthian]

Can you explain how they are deanonymizing users of Tor though? What you're saying just isn't adding up, and i've taken the consideration.. I have been scouring the Internet for information about what you're saying.

1) Sorry to mention the NSA again, but if it's possible to know when a person is using Tor, why is the NSA attacking it's users with Firefox and Javascript exploits? Seems more like grasping at straws..

2) The NSA revealed in their "Tor Stinks" presentation that they will not be able to de-anonymize all users, only a fraction of them.

3) What makes you think worldwide agencies know something the NSA doesn't?

Not trying to be an ass here, your posts did shake me up.. I just can't seem to find definite answers on the matter.

[oscillik]

Can you explain how they are deanonymizing users of Tor though? What you're saying just isn't adding up, and i've taken the consideration.. I have been scouring the Internet for information about what you're saying.

 

1) Sorry to mention the NSA again, but if it's possible to know when a person is using Tor, why is the NSA attacking it's users with Firefox and Javascript exploits? Seems more like grasping at straws..

 

2) The NSA revealed in their "Tor Stinks" presentation that they will not be able to de-anonymize all users, only a fraction of them.

 

3) What makes you think worldwide agencies know something the NSA doesn't?

 

Not trying to be an ass here, your posts did shake me up.. I just can't seem to find definite answers on the matter.

You clearly haven't read my posts if you think I'm saying that intelligence agencies can deanonymise Tor use via the packets...

[chenGOD]

http://www.jewgle.org/

 

(sorry I was late to the game obel, I did think of it before I saw your post though)

[Bertolt Brechtakt]

 

https://startpage.com/

looks a little bit like

 

https://ixquick.com/

 

 

It's the same company and Startpage uses Ixquick. Or better: It is Ixquick. They changed the name back in the mid-2000s because the old name was to weird.

 

But to come back to the initial question raised in the thread: I think Startpage is a good alternative because basically what it does is taking you search inquiry, sending it anonymized to Google, getting the Google results back and displaying it on your desktop. So in the end, with Startpage you are using Google without Google knowing.

[Ego]

https://arkos.io/

[usagi]

http://www.jewgle.org/

 

(sorry I was late to the game obel, I did think of it before I saw your post though)

 

don't forget their streaming video site Jewtube