Now That Trump's President... (not any more!)

[ignatius]

9 minutes ago, StephenG said:

@ignatius Not sure if you saw this.

 

paywall  

found it on another site. i had only seen the other video w/the iranian guy talking and the trail of flames. 

[YangYing]

30 minutes ago, StephenG said:

1 hour ago, chim said:

https://nyti.ms/307EQF2

Great job morons 

@ignatius Not sure if you saw this.

jesus this is so dumb

[caze]

19 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Why do you think Trump blinked in this round of chicken?

He didn't, Iran decided to not actually retaliate, instead they did a fake face saving retaliation, which allowed both sides to draw a line under the whole thing. If they had actually targeted and taken out US soldiers then there's no doubt Trump would have hit back. Iraqi oil exports being cut off from the US would not have any significant impact on the US economy.

19 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Those corrupt assholes were often chosen by Americans as suitable leaders.

not currently, the current guy was Iranian backed. even in the past when they have favoured one guy over another, it's not like they're picking from the cream of the crop, or that the entire system of tribal affiliations would allow them to pick anyone who's likely to be uncorrupt, plus they still had to be voted in.

[ignatius]

28 minutes ago, caze said:

He didn't, Iran decided to not actually retaliate, instead they did a fake face saving retaliation, which allowed both sides to draw a line under the whole thing. If they had actually targeted and taken out US soldiers then there's no doubt Trump would have hit back. Iraqi oil exports being cut off from the US would not have any significant impact on the US economy.

not currently, the current guy was Iranian backed. even in the past when they have favoured one guy over another, it's not like they're picking from the cream of the crop, or that the entire system of tribal affiliations would allow them to pick anyone who's likely to be uncorrupt, plus they still had to be voted in.

often the only criteria that matters is "will you pretty much do what we and our interests say? ok fine then you're in". US and other nation's actions over the previous 75 years pretty much paved the way for where we are in the middle east.  

unseen consequences and blinded by agenda nearsightedness. 

 

[dingformung]

Remember pre world wars? dem US states of americar didnt were strong only were strong after dem wolrd wars at the world wars

before bismarck told wilhelm dem second: ey wilhelm dont colonialize africa like dem ovva guys do, france brittain, fuk em lezz not colonialize, lezz keep it all chill and make a complex  alliance system so there will B no war in yurope. and willem be like: no man lezz do first genocide in the century and kill all or at least most of em Herero in 1904 and den go full on colony powa like brittainy and francy. and rememba? azza consequence there was WW! and as a conequenc of that WW2?? willem was bit like trump bit stupid. evil butt not that evil just mostly stupid. then 2 WW happent LOL

[cwmbrancity]

watmm could do a better job than Trump

[chenGOD]

4 hours ago, caze said:

He didn't, Iran decided to not actually retaliate, instead they did a fake face saving retaliation, which allowed both sides to draw a line under the whole thing. If they had actually targeted and taken out US soldiers then there's no doubt Trump would have hit back. Iraqi oil exports being cut off from the US would not have any significant impact on the US economy.

not currently, the current guy was Iranian backed. even in the past when they have favoured one guy over another, it's not like they're picking from the cream of the crop, or that the entire system of tribal affiliations would allow them to pick anyone who's likely to be uncorrupt, plus they still had to be voted in.

Trump definitely blinked, considering what he said he would do, and what he actually did. This is not unprecedented.

Again, it’s not just the removal of Iraqi exports to the US. OPEC, the C stands for cartel, and they do act as one. Their ability to sway oil markets and resultant power is huge. Substitute OPEC exports to the US with cheaper OPEC exports to Russia and China, and whoever else. With markets acting as they do, American oil producers aren’t going to be happy with international prices, and they will be forced to make up that difference elsewhere (domestic consumers). 
 

The current president of Iraq is simply more pragmatic, but hardly an Iran patsy. The US doesn’t want to pick from the cream of the crop. They want a guy who will do as he’s told for the most part, and consider US interests before Iran. 

[zero]

it really is fucking incredible that he is still talking about Hilary and the MAGA clowns lap it up. brainwashed humans, all of them.

from a campaign rally last night:

Quote

He returned to his 2016 rival, Hillary Clinton, again dubbing her “crooked Hillary” and prompting the familiar “Lock her up!” chant from the crowd.

 

[caze]

3 minutes ago, ignatius said:

often the only criteria that matters is "will you pretty much do what we and our interests say? ok fine then you're in".

no, this is stupidly simplistic. the most important factor is trying to balance the various sectarian and tribal factors. US interests are a consideration, but they only have so much influence.

Quote

US and other nation's actions over the previous 75 years pretty much paved the way for where we are in the middle east.  

and this is basically racist. it's saying the people of the middle east have no agency, that they're like little children and everything that happens is because of the only grownups, the westerners. the current shit show is a result of countless factors, involving everyone. Iran in particular plays a big role in the regional instability of the last 30+ years.

[ignatius]

31 minutes ago, caze said:

no, this is stupidly simplistic. the most important factor is trying to balance the various sectarian and tribal factors. US interests are a consideration, but they only have so much influence.

and this is basically racist. it's saying the people of the middle east have no agency, that they're like little children and everything that happens is because of the only grownups, the westerners. the current shit show is a result of countless factors, involving everyone. Iran in particular plays a big role in the regional instability of the last 30+ years.

ask Mohammad Mossedegh about it.  the Shah of iran ring any bells? we helped overthrow mossedegh and put the shah in place because he'd play ball w/the oil situation. this DIRECTLY led to the fundamentalist revolution. had mossedegh been left in power Iran would look very very different... but you know.. oil. it's all well documented history. 

you're pretending we haven't overthrown deomcratically elected leaders and put in cronies and military thugs to rule nations. grow up. 

my point is that a BIG factor in who the usa backs for a leader in a developing country or elsewhere is "will he play ball?"

also WTF.. the borders of the region were arbitrarily drawn by outside nations. countries were made up out of Persia. it all made little sense to many people who lived there.  how can you say the west hasn't fucked up the region and paved the way for so much chaos and strife and division and death?

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2016/0516/Why-100-year-old-borders-drawn-by-two-Europeans-still-define-the-Middle-East

Edited January 10, 2020 by ignatius

[caze]

21 hours ago, chenGOD said:

Trump definitely blinked, considering what he said he would do, and what he actually did. This is not unprecedented.

no, he really didn't.

Trump saying one thing and doing another isn't anything new, he often even contradicts himself in the same friccin speech. it's not evidence of him climbing down though, he was never going to attack them directly again unless they killed anyone.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-targets/iran-believed-to-have-deliberately-missed-u-s-forces-in-iraq-strikes-sources-idUSKBN1Z7283

Quote

Again, it’s not just the removal of Iraqi exports to the US. OPEC, the C stands for cartel, and they do act as one. Their ability to sway oil markets and resultant power is huge. Substitute OPEC exports to the US with cheaper OPEC exports to Russia and China, and whoever else. With markets acting as they do, American oil producers aren’t going to be happy with international prices, and they will be forced to make up that difference elsewhere (domestic consumers). 

OPEC isn't as important as it was in the last century, the Americans can handle the smaller level of instability they can now create. other countries mightn't be so lucky, but it might actually work out well for the US long term if they tried anything. this isn't only due to the large (and still growing) increase in supply from the US, but also due to flagging worldwide demand. also, Iraq can't dictate to the rest of OPEC, only the Saudis have that power (and their relations with the US are good, so why would they try and fuck them over now in a dispute with Iran?). the decline of OPEC was a big reason for Qatar to leave recently, and gas will become increasingly more important in the coming decades, where the US is the largest producer. I wouldn't be surprised if both Iran and Iraq left OPEC in the next ten years.

Quote

The current president of Iraq is simply more pragmatic, but hardly an Iran patsy. The US doesn’t want to pick from the cream of the crop. They want a guy who will do as he’s told for the most part, and consider US interests before Iran. 

I was talking about the prime minister, not the president. The Iraqi president is a buffer between the varying factions, usually a Kurd (3 of the 4 presidents since Saddam have been Kurds), he doesn't have that much power, the power in Iraq is still regional and tribal. The ability of the US to dictate to them is pretty limited.

Edited January 11, 2020 by caze

[chim]

Wow they admitted to it already. Quick turn of events. Pretty sure the experts were convinced this was going to take months. 

[ignatius]

It’s better they owned up to it quickly. Shits tense enough with Iran trying to manufacture some bullshit story.

[chenGOD]

5 hours ago, caze said:

no, he really didn't.

Trump saying one thing and doing another isn't anything new, he often even contradicts himself in the same friccin speech. it's not evidence of him climbing down though, he was never going to attack them directly again unless they killed anyone.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-targets/iran-believed-to-have-deliberately-missed-u-s-forces-in-iraq-strikes-sources-idUSKBN1Z7283

OPEC isn't as important as it was in the last century, the Americans can handle the smaller level of instability they can now create. other countries mightn't be so lucky, but it might actually work out well for the US long term if they tried anything. this isn't only due to the large (and still growing) increase in supply from the US, but also due to flagging worldwide demand. also, Iraq can't dictate to the rest of OPEC, only the Saudis have that power (and their relations with the US are good, so why would they try and fuck them over now in a dispute with Iran?). the decline of OPEC was a big reason for Qatar to leave recently, and gas will become increasingly more important in the coming decades, where the US is the largest producer. I wouldn't be surprised if both Iran and Iraq left OPEC in the next ten years.

I was talking about the prime minister, not the president. The Iraqi president is a buffer between the varying factions, usually a Kurd (3 of the 4 presidents since Saddam have been Kurds), he doesn't have that much power, the power in Iraq is still regional and tribal. The ability of the US to dictate to them is pretty limited.

Point 1: you said exactly what I said, except you seem certain about what’s going on inside trumps head. He really did blink, and he’s given up a lot for no return. 
 

OPEC produces 44% of the world’s oil. 21% of the world’s natural gas. https://www.statista.com/topics/1830/opec/
They still have considerable influence on prices. If they decide to screw with the US, it wouldn’t be difficult. Saudi relations with the US are the same as they’ve been since relations started, barring the 70s. But with the US increasing production, Saudis might see that as a threat to their economic livelihood. That’s just one scenario. There are likely other reasons that I can’t think of hungover on a Saturday. 
 

The PM who resigned in November last year? Yeah i guess he was more opposed to the US, but he still had interests that aligned more with US foreign policy than with Iran. Doesn’t matter though, Trump has done amazing work for the Iranians. 

[dingformung]

Why not just transition to bio fuel where possible (hemp, rape, etc.). I read that a lot of stuff that requires fossil oil could with some technical adjustments be done with other oils. This probably doesn't translate to all fields in which fossil oil is used but it would still be an idea to reduce fossil oil demand. Of course this is never going to happen because it is against the interest of powerful people.

[Limo]

It's also very inefficient. You wouldn't believe how energy dense a litre of diesel is compared to the energy it takes to produce it. Nothing else even comes close, unless you subsidise it.Which is what we're starting to do in the hopes that we'll figure out how to make the alternatives cost effective before we run out of oil. Most likely we should have started doing this sooner. 

[auxien]

why not just transition away from using fuels of any type so there's no electricity and no vehicles and we all just walk anywhere we need to go but really we dont need to go very far so we all live in hippie communes and maybe sometimes go across the sea in a sailboat or something. 

[ambermonk]

Maybe Dr. Emmett Brown had the right idea with his Mr. Fusion, using trash to fuel up his time-traveling Delorean. If only he could travel back to September 1945 and urge Fred Trump to use a condom...

[prdctvsm]

[ignatius]

11 hours ago, darreichungsform said:

Why not just transition to bio fuel where possible (hemp, rape, etc.). I read that a lot of stuff that requires fossil oil could with some technical adjustments be done with other oils. This probably doesn't translate to all fields in which fossil oil is used but it would still be an idea to reduce fossil oil demand. Of course this is never going to happen because it is against the interest of powerful people.

rape is not very efficient way to generate power on a large scale. 

9 hours ago, ambergonk said:

Maybe Dr. Emmett Brown had the right idea with his Mr. Fusion, using trash to fuel up his time-traveling Delorean. If only he could travel back to September 1945 and urge Fred Trump to use a condom...

just kill fred trump. 

[Candiru]

4 minutes ago, ignatius said:

rape is not very efficient way to generate power on a large scale. 

Spoiler

 

[ignatius]

1 minute ago, Candiru said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

who's that? 

[Candiru]

5 minutes ago, ignatius said:

 

who's that? 

Hannah Gadsby, a stand up comedian from Australia with a special called Nanette, where she talks about being a lesbian in super conservative Tasmania and how she was raped. More of a confessional than stand up comedy, but it got popular and created a bunch of think pieces about how she was going to change stand up comedy forever. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Candiru

[whosebrian]

 

If you are not one of us, you are one of them.

[auxien]