perunamuusi Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Kind of want to agree with you but then I heard better, more emotive music made by Udio than any I've heard made by any of watmm's featured artists for several years. 99% of music/art made by human beings is pure shit anyway. Ai is just bringing more options to the table. And if some good prompting can do the equivalent of the curation of a trustworthy record label then so be it. It's game over anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perunamuusi Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Most people moaning about it are doing so for 1 of 2 reasons: it's taking money away from real struggling artists... (spoiler alert... there is no money in music for 99% of musicians anyway, unless you're playing covers in a pub every friday in which case the robots are not going to take your job anytime soon). Or... as the above said... art is about a human being communicating a feeling to another human being not just something nice to enjoy (or something along those lines)... which yes is obviously true (in part) but also kind of ridiculously naive/idealist/stupid in multifarious ways. Sorry. Didn't read any of the thread prior to the post before mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 53 minutes ago, perunamuusi said: then I heard better, more emotive music made by Udio than any I've heard made by any of watmm's featured artists for several years. post these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 2 hours ago, perunamuusi said: unless you're playing covers in a pub every friday in which case the robots are not going to take your job anytime soon). yeah.. probably at some point those bands will be playing a few covers of songs produced by Ai though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 "and another thing..." https://www.citizen.org/article/mushroom-risk-ai-app-misinformation/ Quote Unreliable A.I. Tools Generate Mushroom Misinformation Emerging A.I. technologies are being deployed to help beginner foragers find edible wild mushrooms. Distinguishing edible mushrooms from toxic mushrooms in the wild is a high-risk activity that requires real-world skills that current A.I. systems cannot reliably emulate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkxwz Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 8 hours ago, mTesc said: I'm spending much too much time on Reddit and Facebook "fighting" with people who don't seem to understand that music and art are not just pretty things to enjoy but the results of others' desires to communicate or convey something. I keep telling myself that I'm just going to ignore AI-related posts and that anyone who doesn't get it or doesn't feel similarly to how I feel isn't going to have an epiphany based on what some internet stranger has to say. But the Udio-bolstered uptick in interest / sharing is difficult to let slide. There will always be people out there that don't understand that, and for them, AI art probably will satisfy them. I don't think it's really possible to get someone to appreciate art on a deeper level than "this sounds nice" or "this looks good" just by explaining to them how they are experiencing it in a way that's too shallow. An analogy(which I'm not sure really reflects history accurately) to this whole situation I've heard is this: Before factories, mugs were all handmade, and were much more of an artistic creation, each person making them put their own art/expression into it and sculpted the whole thing by hand. As a result, there were fewer mugs, they were more expensive, more valued by the users, and had much more human expression in them. Now factories come along, suddenly you can produce identical copies of the same mug, with no artistic content, for a tenth of the price. This is great for the consumers because they have cheap mugs and most didn't care for the art. And for those that did care about the art, there are still a number(albeit much smaller) of artisan mug makers producing the artistic product. I think it'll be the same with AI art, for those that don't care about the artistic side, they'll get loads of nice looking and sounding things for super cheap and they'll be happy. And for the people who genuinely care for the art(and are willing to pay for it), there will still be artists making their art. To me the open question is this: are we losing something important when a huge amount of human expression which is already going unnoticed and unappreciated loses the ability to get paid for? My gut feel is that we wouldn't be losing autechre, and a lot of us on watmm are making music without any expectation or need for money in exchange for what we make anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseLink Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) Five Eyes On Me! Five Eyez On Me! All the time! They tracking my rhymes, like its a crime! That was the best song i wrote, back in '94! But Five Eyez On Me...... Five Eyez on me..... Five Eyez on me............. All the time!! Tracking my rhymes, like its a crime But how the hell did my phone know that?! That was in the past, remember that! They are snitchin', they trying to cancel me! If you go after my family, now you are my enemy! I used to take my phone, everywhere I would go, Now I leave the stupid thing at home, all alone! It's distractin', Five Eyes On Me, you pigeons... Always trackin' my decisions.... I don't do social media!! Etc etc. Anyway, its more to do with what we are writing songs about now? It baffles me abit that we have so many topics out there now that we as songwriters should be tackling. That affect us more and more, yet all these mainstream artists keep farting about the same old topics that don't really matter to us at all anymore. I don't care that your boyfriend dumped you or whatever, your love life is not my life. People are literally thinking and pushing about WW3, A.I taking over our jobs and livelihood, our parent's generation going "MEH whatever, I'll be dead so what good luck" while leaving us to dealing with this crap. There are so many other more important things we should be creating music about. So from there, if other human beings have had enough with dealing with other human beings who think like this and instead want to make "the next big hit"..... then what do you expect? We will turn to something else to help us express ourselves properly. From there though, again, for now as long as you are honest about it if you use it, I don't see the problem with it. A.I is only a tool, for now, for now we should only treat it as such: Edited April 22 by LooseLink 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Artificial Intelligence? More like Fartificial Intelligence! Haha! I’d like to see F.I. come up with a joke of similar allure. It wouldn’t and can’t because it’s not sentient (yet). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mTesc Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 21 hours ago, vkxwz said: To me the open question is this: are we losing something important when a huge amount of human expression which is already going unnoticed and unappreciated loses the ability to get paid for? My gut feel is that we wouldn't be losing autechre, and a lot of us on watmm are making music without any expectation or need for money in exchange for what we make anyway. I agree with everything you've said above this point. I also agree that we won't be losing Autechre, and that's something that I'm grateful for. I absolutely don't make music with monetary considerations in mind, but I do want my music to be heard. I don't need to earn a cent from it, but I want people to hear it. I want to try to share something, and I hope that I'm conveying something kind of similar to what I'm trying to convey. It's always bothered me (just a little) that I can't make other people hear a track in black and red (or whatever), but I hope that I can communicate something even slightly specific. I don't want to be lost in a flood of AI sound; it's already difficult enough to be noticed with as much genuinely great electronic music as there is in our time. Edited April 22 by mTesc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseLink Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 17 hours ago, user said: Artificial Intelligence? More like Fartificial Intelligence! Haha! I’d like to see F.I. come up with a joke of similar allure. It wouldn’t and can’t because it’s not sentient (yet). Fartificial Intelligence? Pfff, more like Pharmaceutical Negligence! You can't afford your pills anymore? You just scared cause a robot's about to take your desk job over punk. Stress is the real mind killer, the real facepalm moment, that's coming for us all.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 and here we go https://uhuhtapes.bandcamp.com/album/a-i-explorations We Are The Music Makers | Volume One by Various Quote Andersom created this album by exploring the new possibilities artificial intelligence offers in the field of music generation. By re-imagining his love for specific genres of music he normally likes to sample to create beats with, he created a showcase for other lovers of similar genres to discover the possibilities of this new technology in these niches of music. credits released April 24, 2024 created with udio.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 8 minutes ago, ignatius said: and here we go https://uhuhtapes.bandcamp.com/album/a-i-explorations We Are The Music Makers | Volume One by Various i've seen at least one other 'ai generated album' and tried listening to it, it was shit. not interested in sharing so as not to feed these attempts for attention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logakght Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 40 minutes ago, ignatius said: and here we go https://uhuhtapes.bandcamp.com/album/a-i-explorations We Are The Music Makers | Volume One by Various noice. human music si finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 57 minutes ago, auxien said: i've seen at least one other 'ai generated album' and tried listening to it, it was shit. not interested in sharing so as not to feed these attempts for attention. thats the first one i've seen and dude even post it on a forum "i released an album created w/Ai." ugh. "there's gonna be so much shit art" - already is but now it's gonna be people writing prompts thinking they have some special sauce. we all know the special sauce. anyway.. i took the opportunity in that thread to post those two Ai youtubes that take it all to task as the shitshow it is... Spoiler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vkxwz Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 3 hours ago, ignatius said: thats the first one i've seen and dude even post it on a forum "i released an album created w/Ai." ugh. "there's gonna be so much shit art" - already is but now it's gonna be people writing prompts thinking they have some special sauce. we all know the special sauce. anyway.. i took the opportunity in that thread to post those two Ai youtubes that take it all to task as the shitshow it is... Hide contents That last video is awful, I only got 6min into it but all I heard is that algorithms that need to be retrained aren't intelligent, and that if you retrain and it's categorization matches the data but not what you meant, that's not intelligence. The video is lacking a proper definition of intelligence and seems more concerned with being condescending about a field she's isn't a part of. Online learning is theoretically possible and chatgpt already demonstrates a pretty good ability to interpret what you actually mean and fix it's own mistakes, exactly in the way she's saying is not happening in ML(also interestingly it's been shown that when chatgpt learns during inference [being corrected on a mistake, being explained a new procedure to carry out, or given examples to make a new category out of] , it's actually internally doing something very similar to the algorithm that trains it, just in a way that's erased when the context is erased). The only thing worse than the flood of annoying ai hype is the condescending anti hype coming from people who aren't aware of the facts that contradict what they are saying. But don't worry, there's no need to learn more and get things right, you have a huge audience of people who know no better than you do, which you can use to farm ad revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 8 hours ago, vkxwz said: That last video is awful, I only got 6min into it but all I heard is that algorithms that need to be retrained aren't intelligent, and that if you retrain and it's categorization matches the data but not what you meant, that's not intelligence. The video is lacking a proper definition of intelligence and seems more concerned with being condescending about a field she's isn't a part of. Online learning is theoretically possible and chatgpt already demonstrates a pretty good ability to interpret what you actually mean and fix it's own mistakes, exactly in the way she's saying is not happening in ML(also interestingly it's been shown that when chatgpt learns during inference [being corrected on a mistake, being explained a new procedure to carry out, or given examples to make a new category out of] , it's actually internally doing something very similar to the algorithm that trains it, just in a way that's erased when the context is erased). The only thing worse than the flood of annoying ai hype is the condescending anti hype coming from people who aren't aware of the facts that contradict what they are saying. But don't worry, there's no need to learn more and get things right, you have a huge audience of people who know no better than you do, which you can use to farm ad revenue. i think that's all arguable and that's what she's doing. but whatever ymmv. maybe watch the whole video though ? Edited April 25 by ignatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 9 hours ago, vkxwz said: The video is lacking a proper definition of intelligence curious what definition of intelligence you’d suggest using in general terms & specifically regarding machine systems 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, auxien said: curious what definition of intelligence you’d suggest intelligence dance music 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibal cooper Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 23 hours ago, zero said: intelligence dance music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted Saturday at 10:19 PM Share Posted Saturday at 10:19 PM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronical Posted Tuesday at 01:55 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 01:55 PM Someone should make a WATMM talkbot that parses all of our comments to create the ultimate shitposter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaartenVC Posted 1 hour ago Share Posted 1 hour ago ColdFusion: About AI music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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