jordan peterson

[cern]

No why he is so famous is because he get into interviews with stupid feminist reporters and he always wins the debates.

This is "so epic" and "amazing genius" around young men so he becoming their hero. Simple facts. 

[dingformung]

4 minutes ago, xox said:

He’s a psychologist tho

Oops, lol. I can freely admit that I don't know many facts about Jordan Peterson

But really, what makes him especially qualified in anything other than having a popular YouTube channel?

[xox]

I haven’t read the book, well I doubt i will... but his uni lectures are top notch imo

[ignatius]

14 minutes ago, dcom said:

Paul Thagard wrote that Maps of Meaning is "defective as a work of anthropology, psychology, philosophy, and politics."

had to look this up. nice review. kinda hilarious. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hot-thought/201803/jordan-petersons-murky-maps-meaning

 

"Peterson’s ideas are a mishmash of banal self-help, amateur philosophy, superfluous Christian mythology, evidence-free Jungian psychology, and toxic individualistic politics. Seek enlightenment elsewhere."

Edited March 4, 2021 by ignatius

[dcom]

11 minutes ago, cern said:

No why he is so famous is because he get into interviews with stupid feminist reporters and he always wins the debates.

This is "so epic" and "amazing genius" around young men so he becoming their hero. Simple facts. 

He's been a hero of the alt-right and MRAs (men's rights activists, i.e. incels) because in many video clips he "wins" by "owning" the "SJWs" when his regressive gender views are questioned. You can always see how pleased he is with himself, especially if the interviewer chokes and/or spazzes out. "Facts don't care about your feelings" is the rallying cry for the self-described beta cucks who think Peterson's yet another stable genius.

The coma he was in was medically induced, he'd become so addicted and dependent on benzodiazepines that his body was simply shutting down. That shit is wack, yo.

Edited March 4, 2021 by dcom

[xox]

9 minutes ago, dingformung said:

Oops, lol. I can freely admit that I don't know many facts about Jordan Peterson

But really, what makes him especially qualified in anything other than having a popular YouTube channel?

I assume he knows psychology well enough to be a uni professor (worked at Harvard for 7 yes) and he’s good at giving lectures about psychology related topics. he’s also an experienced psychotherapist.
What makes him special? I don’t know... i guess if you need some knowledge about psychology or if you need psychotherapy, he can probably provide both

[dingformung]

10 minutes ago, xox said:

I haven’t read the book, well I doubt i will... but his uni lectures are top notch imo

Any particular lecture you can recommend?

I like the idea of getting into Jordan Peterson as a direct result of this thread getting bumped.

 

[zlemflolia]

49 minutes ago, dingformung said:

None of the psychiatrists I've asked knew who Jordan Peterson was. Seems he is more a YouTube celebrity than anything, and not necessarily widely known for any achievements or contributions in the field of psychiatry. Not sure why he even gets the amount of attentions he gets.

this is probably the most relevant aspect of him. its the same thing as TV doctors or TV commercial lawyers except it is driven entirely by an unthinking profit-maximizing YT recommendation algorithm

[ignatius]

1 minute ago, dingformung said:

Any particular lecture you can recommend?

I like the idea of getting into Jordan Peterson as a direct result of this thread getting bumped.

 

watch the long joe rogan interview if you want to watch joe rogan gobble peterson's every word as gospel

[xox]

@dingformung

Any actually... I haven’t seen a bad one from him tbh.
Id also recommend lectures from Robert Sapolsky at Stanford uni. Both easily found on yt

Edited March 4, 2021 by xox

[dingformung]

5 minutes ago, xox said:

I assume he knows psychology well enough to be a uni professor (worked at Harvard for 7 yes) and he’s good at giving lectures about psychology related topics. he’s also an experienced psychotherapist.
What makes him special? I don’t know... i guess if you need some knowledge about psychology or if you need psychotherapy, he can probably provide both

I don't doubt his competence in his field (I can't evaluate that) but I doubt that his influence as a public figure is justified and more some odd media phenomenon

Edited March 4, 2021 by dingformung

[luke viia]

58 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

one time at my last job someone mentioned the (then recent) news that JBP had gone into a coma, and one of my co-workers loudly announced "Good! I fucking hope he dies!" in a completely serious & aggravated tone.

honestly i find the extreme degrees of love & hate for this man kind of ridiculous. he's basically a self-help guru with a vague throwback aesthetic. people describe him as "far right" but imo he's just being marketed to young men who might otherwise explore the actual contemporary far right, to keep them within the safe confines of liberalism. his conservatism has about as much power to challenge the social order as the blue hair dye of the college chick he's supposed to be diametrically opposed to

yup

[Bodhidharma]

19 minutes ago, dcom said:

I wasn't going to read 12 Rules because the premise seemed so ridiculous; based on the articles I'd read on Petersen and a handful of video appearances - I started to watch the "lecture" version of the book, but it got so boring so quickly that I couldn't be arsed. Then a work mate asked if I could read it and review it for him - he's a video person, not a reader - he wanted my honest opinion on it and offered to buy the book. I took it as a challenge and read the bloody thing from start to finish, and I was underwhelmed: the writing's bland, self-aggrandising, misogynist, patriarchal and several other kinds of WTF am I reading inane "clean your room" and "stand straight" type self-help mush that'll rot your brain. Oh and there are two ASCII smileys in the book, FFS. I understood why my workmate likes his ideas - he's a right-leaning boomer - but I was not impressed. Peterson loves the sound of his own voice and thinks rather highly of himself, then overreaches by a blatant display of erudition by writing reams of nonsense. 12 Rules is a simplified distillation of his first book, Maps of Meaning, which took him 13 years to write and less than 13 people have read it; Paul Thagard wrote that Maps of Meaning is "defective as a work of anthropology, psychology, philosophy, and politics." I understand why some people may actually like 12 Rules and the ideology of it - but I also know the type of people is far removed (please) from me. To me, it was WOMBAT - waste of money, brains, and time.

just wondering what is brain rotting about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

[zlemflolia]

2 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

just wondering what is brain rotting about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

there's nothing wrong with it, it's great advice for personal mental and physical health.  we could all do more of it probably.  but peterson puts it forward in a political context.  as i vaguely remember from the slavoj peterson debate, or maybe someone pointing it out in this thread, slavoj's response to peterson's "clean your room" is "that's hard when someone's pumping more garbage into it constantly".  peterson avoids systemic critique for personal responsibility, a common trait of reactionary conservatives

[dcom]

6 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

just wondering what is brain rotting about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

That's exactly my point - if those are things that you need to be told do to get your shit together, you deserve to like the rest of Peterson's oeuvre. It's all about being a (simple hu)man, sucking it up, not being a pussy, standing up straight and getting your collar starched. Read the bit about lobsters and admire how he draws parallels between crustaceans and humans because they share a neurotransmitter.

Edited March 4, 2021 by dcom

[Bodhidharma]

Just now, dcom said:

That's exactly my point - if those are things that you need to be told do to get your shit together, you deserve to like the rest of Peterson's oeuvre. It's all about being a man, sucking it up, not being a pussy, standing up straight and getting your collar starched.

but is there anything bad about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

[ignatius]

1 minute ago, cyanobacteria said:

this is probably the most relevant aspect of him. its the same thing as TV doctors or TV commercial lawyers except it is driven entirely by an unthinking profit-maximizing YT recommendation algorithm

the thing about him being hooked on xanax and leaving the country to detox and that whole saga.. is fascinating to me. what it says about him .. i don't know. tranquilizers are some weird shit for long term use and to become hooked on. he must've been on them a long time to experience a coma as a result. it's tricky shit and i wonder how being on tranquilizers long term affected his personality and interactions with people. also does he consider that when forming his life outlook and coming up w/his thoughts/ideas. does he interrogate himself about that? 

[dingformung]

3 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

but is there anything bad about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

Not a single thing!

[ignatius]

7 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

but is there anything bad about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

only if you're a post modernist. 

[Alcofribas]

19 minutes ago, xox said:

@dingformung

Any actually... I haven’t seen a bad one from him tbh.
Id also recommend lectures from Robert Sapolsky at Stanford uni. Both easily found on yt

you can watch this one where he is almost gonna cry about how scary and evil foucault is (referred to here, in hugely genius terminology, as "an avowed marxist") if you want to get a sense of the intellectual caliber of this dumbass: 

 

[Cryptowen]

This might be offtopic (not totally, though, seeing as I'm a millenial male & JBP is one of the most prominent figures to have been marketed as a father figure for millenial males), but I really do hope future generations of young men have better guidance than I did. When I was in my late teens//early 20s it felt like the two major streams offered up were

A. the idea that anything associated with masculinity was "toxic", and that the only acceptable developmental path was to mold yourself into a formless producer/consumer promoting a generic love youtself! accept yourself! be chill! be excellent to each other, dudes! worldview. like basically to deny any sort of biological or instinctual impulse, to repress yourself at every turn, but then to act like those impulses had never been there in the first place & that you were just naturally a super chill/woke/friendly dude

B. a rejection of this, which could only frame itself as a sort of netherworld, a self-obsessed extended adolescense in which you were encouraged to indulge your hedonistic impulses, to be a nihilistic dick whose only aspiration was to hustle, to fuck lots of drunk club girls, to look good without a shirt on. the red pill, the dark triad, etc. in retrospect this whole "alpha male" phenomenon of the early 2010s turned out to be nothing more than a method of satisfying your impulses within the accepted framework of society, without fundamentally challenging any of the broken institutions you were supposed to be so aware of

yeah neither of those felt particularly aspirational to me. it was like either way you were supposed to just accept that you were the bad guy by default, that that was the role you had been born into. Just in the first case you were supposed to make a big show of beating yourself up for it, and in the latter you were supposed to believe you were doing something subversive by trying to live like a drake music video

[dcom]

17 minutes ago, Bodhidharma said:

but is there anything bad about cleaning your room and standing up straight with good posture?

I see what you're aiming for with that repeated rhetorical device; the binary answer is a trap - if I answer no, my position is invalidated because I'm admitting Peterson is right - if I answer yes, I'm dismissing common sense advice on how to be a good/better person. No, there's nothing bad about them (unless your dad will beat you with jumper cables if you don't), but it doesn't invalidate my opinion on Petersen being a bloviating buffoon.

Edited March 4, 2021 by dcom

[Cryptowen]

1 minute ago, Alcofribas said:

how scary and evil foucault is (referred to here, in hugely genius terminology, as "an avowed marxist")

literally every marxist i know irl hates foucault's guts, because they view him as a prime of example of that french bullshit the CIA used to distract the left back in the 60s

[cern]

9 minutes ago, dcom said:

That's exactly my point - if those are things that you need to be told do to get your shit together, you deserve to like the rest of Peterson's oeuvre. It's all about being a (simple hu)man, sucking it up, not being a pussy, standing up straight and getting your collar starched. Read the bit about lobsters and admire how he draws parallels between crustaceans and humans because they share a neurotransmitter.

Yup, this is so easy for men who got lost in life just to admire.. He clearly stretches his hands to reach them.

Now many of those men have gone over to admire Elon Musk because Elon is the most succesful man in the world. 
And what Elon says is so mindblowing:

"How I become a succesful entrepenaur is because I wanted to create something that people loves."

People who wants to be rich and famous: "Oh my god that is amazing, what a genius!" 



 

[dcom]

8 minutes ago, Cryptowen said:

A. the idea that anything associated with masculinity was "toxic", and that the only acceptable developmental path was to mold yourself into a formless producer/consumer promoting a generic [...]

B. a rejection of this, which could only frame itself as a sort of netherworld, a self-obsessed extended adolescense in which you were encouraged to indulge your hedonistic impulses, to be a nihilistic dick whose only aspiration was to hustle, to fuck lots of drunk club girls, to look good without a shirt on.

Andrew Reiner - Better Boys, Better Men: The New Masculinity That Creates Greater Courage and Emotional Resiliency - it's a recent book, but it's an order of magnitude better than Peterson's.